Why does no one ever port the heads?

[turbovanman]

If the goal is to get more air in, why aren't we porting heads. All gassers do it and they get more power, wouldn't the same be said for us. Looking at the castings, they are horrible, :sad:

I found an article on Maxtorque about a 6.3 + 1/2 and they extrude honed the heads but that's the only time I've ever seen it mentioned?

 

[mr_goodwrench_06]

Most people say that it isn't needed because A) they are dry flow heads and B) boos takes care of imperfections. My belief is that porting/polishing will help by lowering boost levels and still allowing more air to pass. Boost is a measurement of restriction, right? Cleaner air path equals less boost, but the same if not more, air to the cylinders.

I am, however, not an expert on the subject.

Bill

 

[Jasonsmack]

I am porting mine.

On forced induction engines as ours are, porting and polishing has a less effect than a naturally asperated induction system because inefficient runner flow can be somewhat overcome by pressurizing the intake air charge.

 

[SmithvilleD]

Each of the heads/exh manifolds I've seen have had significant mismatch around the edges, where a quick gasket match/blend would help.

My intake manifold & head intake ports were consistently well matched. Seeing the the intake side be well matched, & the exhaust so bad, makes one wonder if there was a casting spec mistake, or what, and if they ever fixed it?

I had a local cylinder head shop do my cylinder heads. They've done a lot of the 6.5 heads from the fleet of Frito-Lay boxvans. They recommended & installed valveseats as these heads were originally just induction hardened in that area, then valveseats simply cut directly into the head.

Got new springs, guides, seals, seats, and the sleeves in the coolant port btwn the valves either for crack repair, or prevention. I trust these guy's work because of their solid 6.5 head repair record doing a volume of Frito-Lay work. Still, the cost was such that it's debatable if buying the new heads Robyn speaks highly of from Clearwater might have been a better option.

Anyway, I also did a little blending of several of the valve bowls, just below the seats.

I think porting work sometimes gets less focus in forced induction, because turning up the boost a bit is easier. Certainly better flowing components can benefit. Just with a turbo, the benefits might be perceived as further down the time spent/diminishing returns slope.

The Extrude Hone process is very cool - although if you contact them to price it for a one-off project, the cost is very high. I gather there is a good deal of work involved setting up the fixtures to guide/force the material into/out of the part.

 

[Turbine Doc]

Porting does add some flow gains when one is seeking that last bit of flow/power improvement.

For most 6.5ers there are things that net better gains before porting, now if into a overhaul or other maintenance scenario where heads are pulled, not a bad time to consider to port at that time, but I would not pull heads & port just for that alone.

 

[mr_goodwrench_06]

I agree. I would never have pulled the heads off just to port/polish them, I was thinking more along the lines of during a major rebuild or something along those lines. The way I figure things, it can't hurt.

Bill

 

[635]

I have the engine that was posted in MaxxTorque, the "ultimate 6.2l rebuild". I did the extrude-hone work because I couldn't get the inside of the intake manifold smoothed out. I went way overboard on this rebuild. The heads were ported, the intake and exhaust manifolds were port matched as well as the turbo mounting area. Then I had these items and the turbo sent to Extrude-Hone to get their work done. "NO ONE" knew if the extrude-hone process would work, and I mean "NO ONE". But the way I figured someone has to try it and if I was going to spend a TON of money on this special engine then i might as well spend a little more and really see what happens. As of now I only have a little over 2K on the engine and I can say it runs real well and pulls very strong.

 

[bison]

If the goal is to get more air in, why aren't we porting heads. All gassers do it and they get more power, wouldn't the same be said for us. Looking at the castings, they are horrible, :sad:

I found an article on Maxtorque about a 6.3 + 1/2 and they extrude honed the heads but that's the only time I've ever seen it mentioned?

I ported mine.

 

[turbovanman]

I have the engine that was posted in MaxxTorque, the "ultimate 6.2l rebuild". I did the extrude-hone work because I couldn't get the inside of the intake manifold smoothed out. I went way overboard on this rebuild. The heads were ported, the intake and exhaust manifolds were port matched as well as the turbo mounting area. Then I had these items and the turbo sent to Extrude-Hone to get their work done. "NO ONE" knew if the extrude-hone process would work, and I mean "NO ONE". But the way I figured someone has to try it and if I was going to spend a TON of money on this special engine then i might as well spend a little more and really see what happens. As of now I only have a little over 2K on the engine and I can say it runs real well and pulls very strong.

How ironic you found this thread as your first post, :thumbsup:

I'll hijack my own thread, lol. So any dyno numbers, mpg figures etc, I have the build sheet in front of me, :thumbsup:

I posted this a few years ago on TDP and basically not no answers so I figured I'd do it again.

We get huge gains our of our turbo-mopar 4 bangers porting. I do agree turning up the boost is easier but when your starting to max stuff out, porting because's a necessary evil.

 

[635]

Can't see what it is so ironic! I've been reading coments for a little while. But this was the first post I could half way answer! No dyno numbers yet because I'm waiting for some mores on the engine. And as far as milage, a steady will give over 20mpg, but like Sammy Hagar says, "I can't drive 55". So far all I can say about the engine now is that it is beginning to feel like a big block Chev if I get into it a little.

 

[turbovanman]

Can't see what it is so ironic! I've been reading coments for a little while. But this was the first post I could half way answer! No dyno numbers yet because I'm waiting for some mores on the engine. And as far as milage, a steady will give over 20mpg, but like Sammy Hagar says, "I can't drive 55". So far all I can say about the engine now is that it is beginning to feel like a big block Chev if I get into it a little.

Ironic as I mention you and you post, that's irony, :thumbsup:

Gotcha, I understand about a lead foot, ):h

 

[635]

Turbovan, send me a quick note if you get down to the Everett area sometime. I live just a little east of Granite Falls.

The pickup will be on a dyno at the end of August. It should put down over 200hp, hopefully! When the first question was asked, after the article in MaxxTorque came out, asking about the horsepower and torque the engine had, how could I answer? The engine was sitting on a crate in the shop in Ellensburg, Wa! I just got my pickup back 2 months ago. So that is why it took so long to respond any questions about the engine's performance. With a lot of help from Bill and Todd at Heath Diesel and from Ian Carver this engine, built by Jamie at Diesel Depot (which took Jamie many many months), should last a very long time and perform very well. Heath marine injectors, GL4, new larger crossover pipe, 3 inch down pipe to a 4 inch muffler to 4 inch duals, Duramax fan, and I'm still using the balance flow for great engine cooling. the pickup is a 98 4x4 ex-cab 4L80 dually 4:10's, 19'5 APP wheels and 265 tires. In case anyone is interested!

 

[NVW]

Turbovan, send me a quick note if you get down to the Everett area sometime. I live just a little east of Granite Falls.

The pickup will be on a dyno at the end of August. It should put down over 200hp, hopefully! When the first question was asked, after the article in MaxxTorque came out, asking about the horsepower and torque the engine had, how could I answer? The engine was sitting on a crate in the shop in Ellensburg, Wa! I just got my pickup back 2 months ago. So that is why it took so long to respond any questions about the engine's performance. With a lot of help from Bill and Todd at Heath Diesel and from Ian Carver this engine, built by Jamie at Diesel Depot (which took Jamie many many months), should last a very long time and perform very well. Heath marine injectors, GL4, new larger crossover pipe, 3 inch down pipe to a 4 inch muffler to 4 inch duals, Duramax fan, and I'm still using the balance flow for great engine cooling. the pickup is a 98 4x4 ex-cab 4L80 dually 4:10's, 19'5 APP wheels and 265 tires. In case anyone is interested!

That's like asking if a squirrel likes nuts:smile5:

Sounds like a real nice build, congrats

BTW, welcome to the site

Leo

 

[turbovanman]

Very nice, :thumbsup:

I used to come to Seattle alot to bike race but haven't done much in the last few years, broke.

 

[635]

NVW, there is more on the back burner!

 

[SmithvilleD]

Turbovan,

If you're going to do this portwork & have the additional time, I would suggest considering applying a thermal barrier coating in the pre-chambers, exhaust ports, & possibly the combustion chamber surface & valve faces.

This engine probably has more to gain from these coatings as the prechambers add surface area increasing heat lost from the combustion chamber - prolly mostly into the coolant. Ought to be some degree of both combustion efficiency gains & less heat the cooling system has to shed.

On my 6.5, I coated my exh manifolds, turbine housing, exhaust elbow, & crossover pipe w/ Cermakrome from techline coatings. It's a fair amount of work, but if done right, produces a finish the same as the commercial header coatings.

I used their CBX thermal barrier coating on the piston tops, Al head combustion chamber/valve faces, & exhaust ports on a 4G63 turbo gasser. Many things were changed/modified during the build so I can't quantitate any performance gains. Had the head off 4 years later & the coatings held up well w/ no delamination, etc.

Wish I'd done this on my 6.5 project. I completed pretty much all my build & the mods to my truck last winter & so much detail/perfectionist stuff was keeping me from getting it running by Spring. So I opted to skip the internal coatings & get the engine buttoned up.

The coatings are very affordable if you're willing & capable of doing the work yourself. I've had a few naysayers over the years insist that the Cermakrome exhaust coating can't be the same material that's so expensive to have done. Simply showing them the Talon's exh manifold & turbine housing after 5 years running on an engine that routinely saw 1650 F EGT's provided clear evidence of the product's quality/durability.

Just PM me if you want to know more. It's been several years, but think I can still find the name of a very knowledgable guy at Techline if you decide to use their coatings.

 

[turbovanman]

Thanks for the advice, I actually use a coater in the Seattle area, Performance Coatings, he sponsors me. He did my race bike and my turbo Caravan. I agree, worth getting done, saved my van when I hit 1800+ egt's when I detonated and leaned out, pistons didn't have a mark, :thumbsup:

 

[Brooklyn Tow]

Money well spent!.......Only 2K mi?

You really need to get out more Ted!

 

[635]

Brooklyn Tow, I added another 200 miles today!

Turbovanman, Performance Coating has done a lot of my parts too.

Today I was in Puyallup and a newer ex-cab 4x4 Ford PS came jumping out of a side street. He was in and out of the pedal like he was trying to get at me. I'm thinking maybe I can??? River Road is a very busy road with traffic lights about every 2 block. We were going about 10 mph, side by side, waiting for the light the light to turn green. It did and he nailed his loud pedal and so did I, my pickup layed down 2 big puffs of black smoke and I drove away from him. My friend with me couldn't believe it, he has a Ford PS too. But I only got to 40, because of the speed limit, but I got there very quick. He caught up and asked me if I had a big block in there and I said no just an old 6.2 diesel. He followed me into a lot and asked if he could see my engine. I did and then I showed him the magazine with the article in it. He didn't read the article much just looked at the engine with the part of using a 6.2 and realized it was the same as the picture. He said he could not believe he got out run by a 6.2. I told him I would tell if he didn't!! Now if I would of just had a little longer straight away, maybe....................

 

[turbovanman]

Brooklyn Tow, I added another 200 miles today!

Turbovanman, Performance Coating has done a lot of my parts too.

Today I was in Puyallup and a newer ex-cab 4x4 Ford PS came jumping out of a side street. He was in and out of the pedal like he was trying to get at me. I'm thinking maybe I can??? River Road is a very busy road with traffic lights about every 2 block. We were going about 10 mph, side by side, waiting for the light the light to turn green. It did and he nailed his loud pedal and so did I, my pickup layed down 2 big puffs of black smoke and I drove away from him. My friend with me couldn't believe it, he has a Ford PS too. But I only got to 40, because of the speed limit, but I got there very quick. He caught up and asked me if I had a big block in there and I said no just an old 6.2 diesel. He followed me into a lot and asked if he could see my engine. I did and then I showed him the magazine with the article in it. He didn't read the article much just looked at the engine with the part of using a 6.2 and realized it was the same as the picture. He said he could not believe he got out run by a 6.2. I told him I would tell if he didn't!! Now if I would of just had a little longer straight away, maybe....................

Hahhha, that's awesome, like me in my turbo Caravan, has the same effect, that puzzled look and WTF just happened, ):h