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Which year cummins engine ???

robzombie4551

robzombie4551

robzombie4551
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I may have a handle on a late 80's/early 90s turbo cummins truck.

It runs and drives and has less than 50.000 miles.

Would this be a good candidate for a swap if the price was right?

What are the best years for the 12v swap?

It looks like it might be a 93/94 model. Turbo is on pass. side like my 6.5 and has intake that says dodge ram on it with the word cummins under that and inj. pump on driver side. Atleast thats what it looks like to me.
 
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All B-series cummins have the turbo on the passanger side and inj pump on the driver's side.

If the intake says dodge ram on it then it's a non-intercooled model, so 89-91. There should be a rectangular metal tag on the front driver side corner of the engine, just in front of the injection pump and power steering pump, it will tell you what year the engine is and HP rating (which should be 160ish). This tag is rivited or glued to the side of the timing cover and can be seen from standing next to the driver's side fender and looking down at the engine. This engine will also have the VE model pump, which is not as desireable as the later P7100 pump, but the VE is still a good reliable pump anyway.

Yes this would be a good candidate for the swap as it is a mechanical pump, no electronics or computer to worry about, and it's non-intercooled. Non-intercooled means you won't need to try to fit an intercooler in your chevy and you won't have to hunt down a non-intercooled intake for the cummins, it already has one on it.
 
robzombie4551 said:
That has less power than my 6.5 has so what would be the advantage for a swap if any?
Click to expand...

That's more of an opinion type question rather than a cut and dried answer.

The cummins swap will give you less headaches to worry about as opposed to the 6.5 (no pmd to worry about, no turbomaster, no more chips to get more power, etc.) and it will last 350,000 plus miles if it is taken care of. The cummins is/will be more reliable than the 6.5 right off the bat and you most likely will get better fuel mileage from the cummins.

The downside is that the cummins weighs more than a 6.5. So with it going in a 4x4, you will be putting more weight on the front suspension than it was designed to handle on a daily basis. Some folks say you will be replacing ball joints and steering parts about every 12 months after the swap, I can't say either way on that one. Also, with your burb being an automatic, you will have to figure out some way to make the electronic trans play nice with a different brand mechanical engine. Not impossible, but something to consider and something that will have to be done.

All in all, you will have something different....How many people have a cummins powered suburban? It will be more reliable in the end and it will be easier to get power out of than the 6.5 is and will probably get better MPG. But, it may take more maintenance (front end wise) to keep the truck on the road safely in the long run than the 6.5 powered truck would. It will also take some fabrication (engine mounts, electronic trans issues to work through, possibly some radiator/fan shroud/etc modifications) to get the cummins in the truck and driving down the road.
 
robzombie4551 said:
I can't tell by looking at the pic. in the ad. I'm betting it is exactly what you say it is though because there isn't any intercooler.

That has less power than my 6.5 has so what would be the advantage for a swap if any?
Click to expand...

The Cummins motor can take a lot of abuse and keeps on rattling down the road.

The dodge truck is just a shipping container for the motor. It will outlast the truck by a long shot.

It is rated to pull 30,000lbs on the commercial side, can handle more.
 
Not uncommon for a 4bt in a gmt400 to get 30mpg. We are doing a burban also, but its very slow going as the owners funds to play with it are low.

Also I don't "think" the Cummins 6bt weighs much more if any than a big block Chevy. And lots of BB chevys live in these trucks.
 
454 ci - 680 lbs ref: http://fixrambler.com/engineweightchart.txt

6.5L - 644 lbs ref: http://fixrambler.com/engineweightchart.txt

Cummins 6 bt - approx 1000 lbs ref: http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?16938-acurate-weight-of-6bt

Don't shoot the messenger, that's about 2 mins on google.

I did a little digging around when a cummins looked like an option for my 98. Front end components were a recurring theme on swaps ( ball joints).

But what really turned menoff was several comments about the unitized hubs wearing out bearings in about 14-24 months. At anywhere from 240-500 bucks a pop, I changed my mind on that.

I also looked at a 4bt, but lots of comments about vibrations turned me off on that option, although 25-30 mpg would have been great.

Just my .02......
 
I know the 6bt are a beast, but never would have guessed 350#s more. You could go with a straight axle swap too.
 
The inline 6 is like the perfect balanced engine design, to reduce harmonics and all the issues associated. The weight is due to how much support it needs for the power. A V engine has overlapping bores so the mains are every two cylinders and the journals are close together. With the whole bore in line the mains cannot be every other, otherwise cranks snap and like ours main webs will crack. So they beef up the bottom end a lot. Very good engine that takes a lot of abuse.
 
The bottom ends are massive for sure. Have one on my shop floor. It will go in the burban if the 6.5 takes a dump.
 
OK heres my two cents worth again......hope u guys dont blackball me cause I need yall to keep old Hully arunnin..

First I bought a GM product because I wanted a GM product!!!!!! It so far has performed quite well as a daily driver and as a towing vehicle with the understanding that my objective is to get from point A to point B!!!!! I just dont understand whats wrong with yalls trucks, they must be a PITA for u to own! I dont have much money but I feel I invested what little I had into a VERY GOOD TRUCK!!!! All I hear is powerstroke this powerstroke that, like its the almightys gift to truck lovers!

Now we r onto the Cummins thing!!!! Really now if its all that good why r yall drivin a GM product?????

Come on guys lets face it, in a Dodge u cant hear the person sittin beside u talk, the blame things eat IPs, ride like a lumber wagon, have serious turbo problems. I drove a Chevy 6.5 to Ky delivering horses and didnt even know the thing had a turbo but I knew a Dodge had a turbo cause all I hear about from my horse trailer towing buddys is the turbo is messed up again. Also where yall gettin them MPG numbers cause my friends aint hittin them numbers.

Powerstrokes......yall talking about cummins ruining ur front end if u do a swap, walk around a horseshow and look at all them duck footed spayed out front tires on the powerstrokes. And they ride like a lead sled! Then check into how many have bad blocks caused by unsuspecting owners putting in the wrong antifreeze. And MPG numbers! Whew I cant buy that fuel. But the real killer is put a gooseneck on that brand new F250 and watch her point that tail at the ground like a bitch in heat!!!!

No we aint speed demons, no we cant pull the hinges off he!! at 70 MPH but we can tow and we get GREAT MPG and ride like a dream and parts r cheap and easy to find and even a diesel retard like me can work on old Hully and git er done!!!!

Ok I feel better now, thank yall for ur patience with me....
 
robzombie4551 said:
I love the color of the engine and if I do this swap I'll be hitting you up for some info on what to gather for the swap.


What is the best years to look out for? 89/92 or 93 up to ????
Click to expand...

Any of them would be ok(89-98), if you just want mild power. They say the 89-93 VE pump engines start better and get a little better fuel mileage on account of the way the timing advance works, I believe this to be true. If you want alot of power get a 94-98early(98-1/2 they went electronic injection) P-pumped engine.

If staying auto trans, I'd get the 47rh(92/93??-96) trans dodge used, its a mechanical shifted trans 1-3, OD and lockup were shifted by the computer but alot of guys just use two pressure switches(even in dodge trucks) for those two solenoids. Some guys convert them to allisons but thats $$$$. You can keep the 4l80, but thats $$$$ to for the TCM and adapters, you'll have alot less headaches and cheaper if you use the dodge stuff.

If going manual trans, there all ok for light duty use, but they all have there week points, hard to get parts for and expensive to work on. Thats why an Eaton is going in mine.

IIRC, the 89-93 trucks the transfer case was on the passenger side, you'll need a drivers side like the 94up dodge trucks. I believe it was a New Proccess 241HD they used in the dodge, most conversion guys put the back housing off there chevy t-case on the dodge so they can keep there speedometer without a bunch of extra work. IIRC, there are two 241HD's(both dodge and chevy), one had pto the other didn't, some parts are specific to the pto option and I cant remember if it has to do with swapping the tailshaft/housing or the input shafts, so you might have to find another t-case if yours dont match the dodge. You'll have to do some reading on that, its not hard to swap once you find the parts.

If I was converting a burb, I'd try to find a 94-95 dodge 4x4, that will have the P-pump cummins, 47rh trans and just swap the parts in the t-case to keep your speedo and cruise(some guys use the GM electric cruise boxes like the gassers and mechanical 6.2/6.5's used). Hardest part of the swap will prolly be the AC, dodge bracket wont work(compressor too low), you can make your own brackets, Autoworld makes some conversion brackets to bolt on the GM AC and alternator, or use the medium duty truck bracket(puts the compressor above the water inlet, instead of below like dodge).

You can mix and match the cummins engine pretty easy over many years/makes/models its just finding the parts. But you'll spend three times as much, its best to find a doner with the setup you need/want. Mine is a 94 dodge engine, with a flywheel housing/flywheel/clutch/starter off an F-700 Ford, AC compressor/alternator/belt tensioner, brackets are Kenworth/Freightliner stuff, I even got some Case-IH stuff on there.
 
The gmt400 with a cummins is the best (affordable) of both worlds. The Dodge truck sucks, but the engine is world class.
I agree the 6.2/6.5 is cheap to work on, but when it comes time to put a new power plant in one why spend the same money on a rebuilt 6.5 as you would on a Cummins conversion? I refer to a Cummins in a GMT400 "2wd" truck. The 4x4 are not nearly as easy to swap (ask me how I know). on 2wd a 6bt will just about jump in there and install itself.
I really want to do a 4bt in the burb for MPG reasons and I never tow with it although the 4bt can tow too. I have several other trucks if I need to tow heavy.
 
I wish I had some scales. I dont believe the cummins is 350lbs heavier. Especially fully dressed, the cummins power steering pump is lighter(no extra brackets and lighter gear instead of pulley), AC/alternator brackets simpler/lighter, lighter water pump, one exhaust manifold that only weighs as much as the RH 6.5TD manifold, no crossover pipe, oil cooler is compact in the block instead of having lines and a cooler out front, aluminum flywheel housing instead of part of a cast iron block.

I think for a fair comparison you'd need to weigh the truck before and after the conversion.

A heavy duty bumper or snow plow will put more stress on the front end than the cummins will. Dodge uses unit bearing hubs also, never measured them, but there close to the same setup as chevy, there all junk if ran in mud and water, dodge, ford and chevy.
 
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