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setup for 26,000gcvw on a 6.5

I just remembered something: IIRC, doesnt the HDs have a bigger transmission cooler? If so, surely one of those fancy BD control boxes that can lock the torque converter in lower gears and a finned pan might get him by?
 
hd have both a cooler in the radiator and a big one hanging in front of every thing.
ferm
it wasnt a stab at you. i want to know what Hayden built them to
 
i talked to Hayden*
all their clutch start engaged at 170* air temp and fully engaged by 200* the difference in part numbers is how strong the viscous clutch is.. i mentioned bout putting a dmax blade on a 6.5 clutch. he said it would works but wear out fast then a dmax clutch. im going to guess that the 2886 has better clutch coupling then the 2843/2850 dmax clutches.
 
I also talked to Hayden... also was informed that engagement starts at 170* and is fully engaged at 200*. The 2886 clutch comes off from the Kodiak / Duramax trucks so should not wear out as fast with the Duramax fan blade...
 
ordered exhaust(flow master xover adn down pipe (17220) 8' of 4" exhast 3x4 adapter and a 90* elbow), pmd relocate, and 2886 hayden fan clutch
cant do the tuning since i dont have the vin.
got a list of parts for the tranny pressure boost valve( aka regulator to fix pressue spikes) i put on in my th400 vary happy with it and (clutch upgrades). also going to re-route then fuel pump wireing as well. stater cables getting re-work... never understood why the wired then batteries in series to the starter and did not increase the wire to then starter... dmax run them in parrellel to the starter still useing 4ga cables vs trying to run two 800cca bats through one 4ga cable.

in another thread i read that a good LP should fill a 2 liter bottle in ~60seconds thats roughly 31.5gph
any reason not to run this? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATX-E8153/
 
I'd research that clutch option further. Ferm is talking about radiator temp not air temp. For the mixed air avg to be 170F after the radiator the radiator coolant incoming may have to be higher than the 215 -220F max recommended ECT for the 6.5.

That's the thing about the 6.5 the temp gradient is steeper (bigger difference from hot spots the precups to avg temps -either ECT measurement guage or ECM). I think its a combo affect. And when you are loaded with high IAT, ECT, EGT, and oil temp -all indicators soaked with heat transfer - the combustion chamber is really really hot. This causes earlier combustion pressure spike that hammers the lower end to stress it. Not the only problem but a consistent indicator of impending cracks - high heat gradient.
 
schiker said:
Ferm is talking about radiator temp not air temp.
Click to expand...

I meant the ECT guage and thus upper hose temp and upper radiator core might be a little cooler overall radiator avg still lower. And he mentioned the intercooler is also adding heat to the avg stack air temp exiting.
 
please explain how i am going to ove heat with a fan blade that is easy 2-3x more aggressive in moing air per revolution the the stock 6 blade that's on there with a clutch that will be fully engaged by 200* ?
now maybe the oem fan clutch is as ferm says but im not using an oem dmax clutch. the 6.5 clutch wasnt design to drive a fan like the dmax blade.
 
air temp is air temp weather on a dmax or a 6.5. the 6.5 has less things being cooled by air, and its fan has to pull air through less stuff... correct?
when hayden tech tells me that their clutch starts to engage at 170* and fullly in engaged by 200* air temp on ALL fan clutches that they make. and we know the dmax fan blade pulls more air then any of the current oem fan blades equiped on these trucks. iirc the water pump/fan is over driven on the 6.5s 6.6 is 1:1 or slower then the crank... water pump is gear driven.

with a clean radiator properly working water pump fan and clutch.. my worry is if theres enough belt contact to drive the fan fully engaged effectively.

btw what does air temp/heat soak down wind of the fan have to do with air going through the radiator? and the effciency thereof?
 
malibu795 said:
with a clutch that will be fully engaged by 200* ?
Click to expand...

Just double check and make sure its engaged when the avg engine coolant temp is at 200F then and not when its sensing 200F air temp and you are good. There might be a considerable difference between the two temps.

I am thinking the Dmax fan doesn't engage when engine coolant temp is 200F I think the Dmax engine runs around that already doesn't it??? if not 205-210F???
somewhere close I am guessing my neighbors newer dodge runs 210F iirc at least it pushes close to 200F or 205F again iirc. I am thinking its going to take engine coolant temp of 220-230 F plus ? to get the air temp the fan clutch senses to 200F. 220F avg ECT is overheated for the 6.5. That means the hottest parts might be locally boiling and running away or allowing the combustion precup to overheat and cause early timing.

I can't see how 220F ECT can cause any metalurgy failure in the bottom mains but 6.5's that consistently run over 220F ECT seems to crack apart on the bottom end. I suspect its due to really high temps in the combustion chamber (one maybe more than one) increasing the timing of fuel combustion and pressure rise in cylinder too early (while piston is still near TDC) and hammers the main journals.

Look at the evolution of cooling upgrades GM did to try and even out cooling and control hot spots in the heads.
 
schiker said:
Just double check and make sure its engaged when the avg engine coolant temp is at 200F then and not when its sensing 200F air temp and you are good. There might be a considerable difference between the two temps.

I am thinking the Dmax fan doesn't engage when engine coolant temp is 200F I think the Dmax engine runs around that already doesn't it??? if not 205-210F???
somewhere close I am guessing my neighbors newer dodge runs 210F. I am thinking its going to take engine coolant temp of 220-230 F plus ? to get the air temp the fan clutch senses to 200F. 220F avg ECT is overheated for the 6.5. That means the hottest parts might be locally boiling and running away or allowing the combustion precup to overheat and cause early timing.

I can't see how 220F ECT can cause any metalurgy failure in the bottom mains but 6.5's that consistently run over 220F ECT seems to crack apart on the bottom end. I suspect its due to really high temps in the combustion chamber (one maybe more than one) increasing the timing of fuel combustion and pressure rise in cylinder too early (while piston is still near TDC) and hammers the main journals.

Look at the evolution of cooling upgrades GM did to try and even out cooling and control hot spots in the heads.
Click to expand...
here the problem... you have missed the fact that i am NOT RUNNIN a OEM Dmax clutch. the difference between the two from hayden is how strong the clutch engages and drives the fan. thats it.

BTW my Dmax ran at 190* acordding to my efi live logs

with all this talk and hounding me about a dmax fan clutch and (maybe) over heating............ why is everyone saying put a 195* tstat in their trucks??? thats putting you 15* closer to the red right???
 
My DMAX also runs around 190*. That is also where my 93 6.5 runs and seems to be the most efficient at. I think the setup you are talking about running will work very well from what you are saying.
 
True 195F is good for effeciency. And 215-220F is considered max safe sustained ECT. Not much difference I agree.

Yes, the stats are suppose to control engine temp but the 6.5 generates a lot of localized heat in the heads more so than other diesels. This heat load can come on strong and quick for the 6.5 when you start to pull a hill lets say. The radiator was marginally sized for sustained power. It is advised if you are going to tow heavy then its best to have a fan that kicks on early when the ECT guage reads 215-220F so it can keep the radiator cool enough to shed the heat (of any and all hot spots).

As long as your clutch does that most 6.5 owners say you are good for heavy towing (as far as coolant is concerned). Just did not want you to get mislead by air temp at clutch vs ECT by someone that is not familar with the 6.5's wants.

Try your clutch it might be fine if ECT rises above 220F back out of throttle its not advised to run ~220F ECT for extended time. Not sure anyone knows the time limit. Its not a catastrophic failure temperature. Different scenerios different discussion.
 
malibu795 said:
any reason not to run this? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATX-E8153/
Click to expand...

:skep: Depends on how much you like changing the lift pumps. I would recommend a Walbo FRB10 as they have lasted me the longest and can be rebuilt. Pmdcable.com sells them. Any biodiesel, some states require this, will start to ruin the factory type lift pumps. Most DD have them fail once a year or more. I have also burned up a Carter rotary vane lift pump. I went through the lifetime warranty factory type lift pumps by the six pack.

Cooling is critical.
On my 1993 I ran a single 185 t-stat, Kennedy Diesel Low temp fan clutch, and both a 20" steel and 21" Duramax fan. I would peak at 210 but keep the temps in check pulling hard 7% grades towing with the AC on.

The biggest problem we have is getting the fing fan to turn on fast enough with the obsolete thermal spring. You hit the hill and climb for miles at WOT. First thing is the engine ECT starts to climb. Delay time as the thermostat open up. More delay as the radiator heats up. More delay as hot air starts to flow over the fan clutch. Major delay as the spring reacts to the hot air and even more delay as the working fluid moves in the clutch to finally lock the fan in. Until the fan locks in the ECT simply climbs at WOT. 180 to 210 before the fan can lock up and this is with the low temperature curve.

The air coming off the radiator is cooler than the coolant temperature.

Some people dislike the low temp Kennedy clutch because it doesn't kick out for them. Used with a lower temp t-stat it works fine. Not a thread on pump option though. Some mod the thermal spring to turn on the fan at a lower temp.

There is a hummer Horton on/off fan clutch controlled by ECT and power steering pump pressure. No one has made this conversion - but this would eliminate the thermo spring delay when ECT goes high.

Thus where the fan clutch kicks on temp wise is critical to where the peak ECT winds up before the fan is on and holding it steady or bringing it back down.

The ATT turbo by being more efficient under high load and letting more heat out the exhaust will have a big effect by slowing down how fast the engine heats up. The cooling fan ran less for me after swapping them.

IMO At higher sustained loads the lower temp t-stat doesn't make as much of an efficiency difference.
 
This is my last post on this one. I have a HAYDEN severe duty DURAMAX fan clutch on my BURB, and with a SUSTAINED 225 degrees engine temp it will NOT kick in(and 225 degrees is full flow through the radiator as bot hstats are fully open and the bypass blocked in a DMAX by 220 degrees). It's your truck though, so run what you feel comfortable with. Fro mwhat I have seen, I would not run the DMAX fan clutch on a 6.5, as 230 degrees engine temp is to hot for a 6.5.
 
THEFERMANATOR said:
This is my last post on this one. I have a HAYDEN severe duty DURAMAX fan clutch on my BURB, and with a SUSTAINED 225 degrees engine temp it will NOT kick in(and 225 degrees is full flow through the radiator as bot hstats are fully open and the bypass blocked in a DMAX by 220 degrees). It's your truck though, so run what you feel comfortable with. Fro mwhat I have seen, I would not run the DMAX fan clutch on a 6.5, as 230 degrees engine temp is to hot for a 6.5.
Click to expand...

You said......
the 6.5 clutch wasnt design to drive a fan like the dmax blade.
Click to expand...



What he said (FERM has a "little":rolleyes5: experience with BOTH 6.5 and D-Max).....AND it's been proven that a Hayden Severe Duty 6.5 fan clutch can and will run a D-Max blade with NO problems.
 
I have been running the Hayden 6.5 fan clutch for probably 4 years with a DMax fan blade with no problems. Still here it roar on hot day pulls. I wish that one would come in sooner though. But once it kicks in the temp comes right down.
 
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