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Repair main web cracks with lock n stitch?

Deere65

Deere65

Member
Messages
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Location
,Rogers,Arkansas
So I pulled the 6.5 because of low oil pressure and tore it down. All the bearings are into the copper so there's that but the three center main webs are cracked at the outer main bolt holes. I have done some reading on repairing this with the lock n stitch inserts and a few people are all about it but I'm on the fence about this being the way to go. Almost sounds to good to be true. The cost of the kit is kind of high at $300 to 400 depending on the bolt size plus the engine has been rebuilt before I got the truck and it's been bore .040 and the crank has been ground .010 so I'm not even sure it'd be worth trying to repair this engine. I'm considering getting a 6.2 from Ted's and swapping my heads to it and just calling it good. But just wanted some input on repairing the block. What do you guys think?
 
First look at new engines $.
@Burning oil offers new GEP and P400 engines. @Twisted Steel Performance also offers new engines.

Next look at refreshing a Ted's used engine with gapless rings. GM iron is scrap metal due to cracks and future cracks - not worth machine work cost/labor. Optimizer and P400 are worth rebuilding.

Lock and Stitch plus a full rebuild with machine work gets close to the cost of a new engine. And the risk the GM cast will continue to crack to death: seriously did you miss the head bolt hole crack on the block? Just saying.

The only way to use the GM cast is "overhaul" not a "rebuild". That is deglaze the cylinders, new rings, bearings, and slap it back in.
 
Right! surprisingly all good on the top side. I'm working with a small budget so at this point it's like the whats the best route for the money I'm working with. My machine shop says no way are they working on a cracked block so I'd have to come up with a way to drill and tap the bolt perfectly straight to install the inserts.

Just curious but what are you able to get and optimizer or p400 for? The ones I've found are 5-8k
 
Have you priced all the machine work a full "done right" rebuild takes? Pistons going the next size up are expensive for 6.5's. This is why a new engine cost at what you are seeing is a "deal".

Budget is get a used engine and slap new rings in it aka "overhaul". 6.2 bottom ends are cheaper if you really have to be frugal. The price of used surplus engines has doubled ($900 to $2000.00) since I did my GM cast 6.2/6.5 hybrids. Thus an Optimizer used is a good starting point IMO.
 
Will L. said:
100% with the above.

Too much $ to risk. And cut the crankshaft? Did it get re coated? No? Sarcasmo says “Wonder why the newer bearings didn’t last!”
Click to expand...

The crank still has paint pen on it and says the crank was cut .0095 but my measuring shows it was less than that and they installed .010 bearings so I'm thinking it was too tight. I don't know how many miles were on this rebuild before I got the truck so the truth may never be known. Could've been just lack of maintenance. The only other way I knew it was rebuilt was I found a receipt in the show glove box which gives no other details of the build
 
WarWagon said:
Have you priced all the machine work a full "done right" rebuild takes? Pistons going the next size up are expensive for 6.5's. This is why a new engine cost at what you are seeing is a "deal".

Budget is get a used engine and slap new rings in it aka "overhaul". 6.2 bottom ends are cheaper if you really have to be frugal. The price of used surplus engines has doubled ($900 to $2000.00) since I did my GM cast 6.2/6.5 hybrids. Thus an Optimizer used is a good starting point IMO.
Click to expand...

I know what a done right rebuild cost and I wasn't planning on going there. My plan was re-ring and new bearings and be on my merry way so that's where the small budget come from. I hate telling on my self but I had the pan off a while back putting in an oil pump in a obviously failed attempt to fix the low oil pressure and I looked at the mains for cracks. Guess I missed em.

Anyway now the engines in pieces and now I'm working on my speech to the wife for why I need more money. Just trying to decide how much more
 
Start with a drive to the dealership and pricing new trucks.

Then after the obvious “they must be drunk!” response, you check out the cheaper used trucks on the lot.

Thats when you “come to the realization” that a new engine in the old truck really is the smartest and affordable option.
 
Will L. said:
And no, I don’t see locknstitch fixing oil pressure issue. It is for strength, not sealing up liquid loss.
Click to expand...

Well the cracks weren't causing the pressure loss. I am just wondering if this will keep the block from cracking worse and if so then I could get a new crank and have the mains line bored and proceed on with new bearings and just re-ring since it's already .040 over there's not much left to bore plus the bores don't have any ridge so I think I could get by there.

There's no way I'm buying a new truck. I've looked and at 50k for a base 4x4 3/4 ton gasser plus just having to talk to a salesman makes my blood pressure high enough to stroke out. The wife's '15 terrain is the newest thing we got but I got to keep her in something reliable
 
I still wouldn’t rebuild that block. But If you do...

Start with pressurizing the oil galleries and see if it is loosing it through the cracks or coventional block seepage.

Don't spend a penny you dont have to because it will not be a long life engine.
HELL NO on a new crank and line boring. Run what you have, and get the bearings all coated instead. You wont get as long life from them as if crank was done 100%, but it isn’t worth the $ on that engine.

New main, rod, cam bearings. Do You understand select fit?

New balancer and belt pulley- AC Delco/ GEP are your only choice here (cheaper doesn’t last) unless you know you will replace this engine with another one when it goes. Then you could justify fluidampr and billet belt drive from Leroy.

Again if you are 100% you will replace this 6.5 with another then timing gear drive (time keeper) instead of chain from Leroy, otherwise new chain only, not new set of chain and gears.

I would not bother with gapless rings on this damaged engine. Run the pistons you have, to hell with if rings are at upper tolerance and nearing blowby from the gate. Just change one word from Disney’s movie Frozen to “Let it Blow(by)” cuz it is going to blow the bottom end in a few years anyways.

And I know YOU aren’t intersted in buying a new truck, just saying sticker shock is the best way to let the wife down easy about spending several grand- just compare it to spending 10 times that much and it seems like a deal! Haha

Every now and then someone buys a lot of used GM 6.2s from military auction and sells them off cheap. A while back I posted on “Craigslist find” thread some takeouts 6.2 with th400 trans for $500 each. He had about a dozen.
 
That's not a bad find on the 6.2's especially since they go th400's with them. I think you guys have done good talking me out of even looking at this block for another minute. I'm looking to have a truck that I don't want to worry about dropping a crank out in the road somewhere while towing a trailer or something. I'm going to do searching for a non GM cast engine. I appreciate the input on what direction to go here.

Still working on that speech but you all have given me some new material. Hope it's ok if I quote you a couple times!!
 
IMO, again, now that we talked you out of the scrap block call Ted's and ask for a used Optimizer. Put in new rings while it's out. Gapless ring info and results is in my signature.

We can talk about rebuilding other newer diesels if you like... A Cumapart is $10,000 to go through easy. Injectors are $3500 as a separate line item. $1200 for a 6.5 moose pump and $300 for injectors is a rounding error in comparison.
 
OK I got an optimizer on the way from Teds. Margaret is awesome to deal with by the way. Called this morning and she had the engine on a truck this afternoon. Should get to me Tues or Wed.

So @WarWagon I love to be able to do a refresh on it once it arrives but I'm going to play the I'm broke card again and put it together. Is there anything special I should before dropping it in beside the obvious install oil pan, intake, sensors,etc. Or is there any differences in the block or heads that may interfere with my original parts
 
Perfect time to do the timing gear upgrade and fluid damper. If you only have money for one of those, then the gears would be best first.
 
New balancer and oil Cooler lines are a must imo. If you already replaced them recently, then how long ago?

Depending on what you can afford before it goes in would start the list beyond there.
 
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