Realistically now... How much weight can I tow?

[Mudbath]

Well, it seems that the concensus is that we shouldn't push the 6.5 that much. I would intend to pull it where ever I would want to go, including the Canadian rockies.

How much truck would I need? Dmax? Ford super duty? I'm very much a GM/Chevy kind of guy, but I got to admit I like the looks and feel of the Fords (not wanting to be blasphemous, here in GM country ).

Thanks for the replies,
Art

The 6.5 done right could get the job done, I would say the rest of the truck is lacking to handle that much weight. It would be like the tail wagging the dog. ):h

 

[Detroit Dan]

Here's New Hampshires definition of a commercial vehicle RSA 259. Subparagraph II, section B. Our CDL laws are adopted from FMVSS, so if other states have started making laws to supersede federal laws, then I hadn't heard of it. Probably a good thing, since the vehicle size is the vehicles size, regardless of whether it's commercial or not.
259:12-e Commercial Motor Vehicle. –
I. ""Commercial motor vehicle'' shall mean a motor vehicle or a combination of motor vehicles, used in commerce, designed or used to transport passengers or property if:
(a) The vehicle has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds;
(b) The vehicle is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or
(c) The vehicle is of any size and is used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of 49 CFR part 172, subpart F.
II. The term commercial motor vehicle shall not include:
(a) Emergency vehicles assigned or registered to a fire department or fire service organization when driven by fire service personnel in pursuit of fire service purposes.
(b) Recreational vehicles.
(c) Military vehicles when driven by non-civilian military personnel in pursuit of military purposes.
(d) Vehicles used exclusively for agriculture and farming.
Source. 1989, 319:3, eff. July 1, 1989. 2008, 282:1, eff. Aug. 26, 2008.

 

[btfarm]

How much truck would I need? Dmax? Ford super duty? I'm very much a GM/Chevy kind of guy, but I got to admit I like the looks and feel of the Fords (not wanting to be blasphemous, here in GM country ).

In keeping with my original suggestion that a dually is the minimum for stability, I would say a DMax is certainly more than capable, I'd stay away from the 6.0 Ford but a 6.4 might be ok (don't know how those are holding up), and a Cummins would also work.

 

[Detroit Dan]

That brings to mind a question. Say I don't have a CDL (actually I do), just a regular operators license. I have a 40 foot pusher and a towed trailer, say a boat or whatever, exceeding 10k. It is properly registered in NH and I am properly licensed to operate it. If I travel to NY with it, do they think they can fine me for state laws that I would have no way of knowing even existed? If that's what they are doing, then I think it needs a court challenge.
What's the difference if I am towing my camper behind my pickup and cross a state line? It's recreational, historically the fed doesn't want anything to do with it. Is NY and Mass going to remove all the elderly motorhome travellers from the road?

 

[WarWagon]

Well, it seems that the concensus is that we shouldn't push the 6.5 that much. I would intend to pull it where ever I would want to go, including the Canadian rockies.

How much truck would I need? Dmax? Ford super duty? I'm very much a GM/Chevy kind of guy, but I got to admit I like the looks and feel of the Fords (not wanting to be blasphemous, here in GM country ).

Thanks for the replies,
Art

The Duramax is capable of this and tends to pass everyone else in a diesel pickup and even class 8's on the road while pulling. Esp the Grapevine in bankrupt California with the AC on. The Allison transmission with grade braking does not have a competitor in pickups. GM no longer offers a manual transmission. I would look for a 2006 or older Duramax being mindful of the issues for that year. The DPF cuts 10% of your economy and is best avoided.

I have 115K of pulling RV's commercially from the factory to the dealer with a 08 dmax 2500 singled out. The dual rear wheels cost you more by 2 tires on the road to wear out and catch nails. Also make it a pain to park. Stability is better with the duals as far as trailer sway.

Biggest issue I had was keeping the SOB cool. It liked to lug 6th and the fan is running too slow to cool things down requiring manual downshifting.

The folks I work with now have older Dmaxes that have over 215K on them. Main issue is the fuel pump pressure regulator failing. No other real issues unless you put a programmer on the DPF.

 

[Matt Bachand]

That brings to mind a question. Say I don't have a CDL (actually I do), just a regular operators license. I have a 40 foot pusher and a towed trailer, say a boat or whatever, exceeding 10k. It is properly registered in NH and I am properly licensed to operate it. If I travel to NY with it, do they think they can fine me for state laws that I would have no way of knowing even existed? If that's what they are doing, then I think it needs a court challenge.
What's the difference if I am towing my camper behind my pickup and cross a state line? It's recreational, historically the fed doesn't want anything to do with it. Is NY and Mass going to remove all the elderly motorhome travellers from the road?

Not sure, but it is always the responsibility of the person traveling to know the laws. Ignorance wont buy you much. Cop should know this!

 

[Detroit Dan]

Not sure, but it is always the responsibility of the person traveling to know the laws. Ignorance wont buy you much. Cop should know this!

But the federal motor carrier laws are supposed to be the same across the board. Interstate and intrastate laws were sorted out decades ago. I am having trouble believing that some states are busting recreational vehicles. And as for operators licenses, all or almost all states have reciprocity. I can drive any vehicle I am licensed for in any state in the country. So if NH doesn't require a cdl for my rv, then I can drive that rv anywhere. Maybe a DOT cop could stop an instate vehicle and tell them they need a cdl, but my out of state registration would validate me.
I gotta talk to one of the DOT cops I know about this. Not that they ever have any good answers for me.
Meanwhile I'm going to see if I can find a NY DOT reference guide online.

 

[Detroit Dan]

26k is CDL regardless of use, you don't need a commercial reg, but you must have the license, NYDOT has been pinching people for this left and right.

This is from NY DOT website:
Vehicles Requiring Commercial Driver’s Licenses
Drivers must hold CDLs if they operate in interstate, intrastate, or foreign commerce and drive a vehicle:

With a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) or Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) of at least 26,001 pounds, whichever is greater, or a lesser GVWR or GVW the Secretary of Transportation prescribes by regulation, but not less than a GVWR of 10,001 pounds; or
Designed to transport at least 16 passengers including the driver; or
Transporting a quantity of hazardous materials requiring placarding

Note the use of the words "operate in...commerce".

 

[Detroit Dan]

Nothing at all in Mass DOT website. Only terminology used is "Commercial Motor Vehicle", which by definition is a vehicle used for commerce. Maybe thats also why the word commercial is part of the acronym CDL. If you are not using it commercially, ie; getting paid for it, then you do not need a CDL.
Where is that "beating the dead horse" emoticon? :>

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[buddy]

A DMax with a controller is wildly powerful. MaxxTorque has articles that address any issue with the DMax from injectors, to fuel filters, to cooling and timing and oil. Thow on an extra fuel filter, an extra oil cooler and youre good to go.

 

[Detroit Dan]

The route I took is as follows: I traded my lifted 81 3/4 that didn't tow real well, for the current dually that didn't even know my 24 footer was behind it. When it came time to replace the camper, I felt like I can buy whatever I want because I have a big dually diesel. So I bought a big heavy, four seasons insulated 33 foot bunkhouse. We love it, however the first thing I noticed is campgrounds restricting where we park it. I am so not interested in parking in a line in a field (safari area) in the hot sun. To me, camping belongs in the woods. Now I usually can convince them that I can fit it anywhere, so they don't try to stick me in the safari area. I should probably start telling them its 28 feet when I register. No ones ever come out and measured it. But I can't go to state parks anymore, sites aren't big enough.

Anyway, my point I think was beware of hidden pitfalls when buying a larger camper. Like where are you going to be able to camp with it.

 

[chrisk1500]

Grab yourself a DMAX.

When I am hauling water for spraying I weigh the following:

truck - 7500 lbs
trailer - 3500 lbs
water - 1250 imperial gallons = 12500 lbs

Total weight - 23 500 lbs

No problems....and love the turbo brake that comes with the Edge Race tuner...

No chance in hell my old 6.5's could handle that....

 

[NVW]

Grab yourself a DMAX.

When I am hauling water for spraying I weigh the following:

truck - 7500 lbs
trailer - 3500 lbs
water - 1250 imperial gallons = 12500 lbs

Total weight - 23 500 lbs

No problems....and love the turbo brake that comes with the Edge Race tuner...

No chance in hell my old 6.5's could handle that....

You're just biased now Chris, I've towed a lot more than that with no problems, mind you it's with a 3500 not a 1500. Stability may have been your problem.

 

[Detroit Dan]

Yeah, Chris is biased now. No love for the dirty old 6.5ers anymore. He won't even sit with us at the lunch table anymore.

 

[btfarm]

At least he's niceconfused enough to come here and gloat...:rolleyes5:













):h
Once you do some heavy pulling with a DMax, you'll know.

 

[chrisk1500]

LOL!

The 6.5 is fine for light work...but not for what you are asking it to do...

I still have a 6.2....it drives garbage to the dump 3 or 4 times a month....

I'm excited for the first DMAX's you guys will buy...you'll be pretty impressed...

 

[buddy]

The 6.5 can pull a lot if you set it up to, you have to spend money to make power and stability, thats either on a lot of upgrades to the 6.5 truck or a lot of money on a new truck. Ultimately you could have a 6.5 engine pull that without much trouble, more than a stock Dmax. but is the money invested worth it on an old chassis and interior and etc...

Even the DMax will overheat and have other problems leaving you on the side of the road, but there are upgrades to resolve them. The common rail direct injection just gives you a lot more potential to build on. And you need a programmer to unlock its power. Most of the aftermarket tunes for the 6.5 dont unlock all of its potential, and if you dont upgrade the turbo youre also limited. Got to spend money to make power.

 

[BoostN]

LOL!

The 6.5 is fine for light work...but not for what you are asking it to do...

I still have a 6.2....it drives garbage to the dump 3 or 4 times a month....

I'm excited for the first DMAX's you guys will buy...you'll be pretty impressed...

\:iamwithstupid:

 

[Crankme69]

I'll be impressed also as soon as I can buy a Dmax without getting a 2nd mortgage

 

[Turbine Doc]

Grab yourself a DMAX. Traitor Total weight - 23 500 lbs No chance in hell my old 6.5's could handle that....maybe you needed a ATT or some other tweaks

23,900 is max I've pulled combined when moving my backhoe to/from camp, I have/had plenty of power to do it; and that was before ATT ,

Now before everyone goes ga-ga read the signature I'm not just a 1/2T, my trailer is a tandem dually axle rated for 9T load with brakes of it's own for that weight.

I've upped suspension-brakes-wheels-tires-engine-trans, I overbuilt the truck beyond what GM even put into the 3500 duallys of the day, power wise I'm on par to the 1st generation Dmax stock and probably even with a 2nd generaton, yes I'm 6 lugged, and only have a 1/2T frame, with fuel, bumper tool box I'm same weight as a 3500.

The trailer is doing the work of supporting & stopping the load not the frame of my truck, I'm just dragging the load. 3:73 is plenty of gear ratio as evidenced by specs for the 2010 Dmax dually sporting the same final gear ratio of 3.73 =13,000# but whoa there fellas even the venerable legal weight per GM spec for Dmax is only 13,000# http://www.gmc.com/sierra/3500/specsCapabilities.jsp bumper tow and 16,500# as gn/5th wheel tow what it boils down to are limits of joe average driver and how much liability a manufacturer is willing to take with a vehicle.

One of the arguments I've heard is that 3:73 is not enough gear evidently it is as that appears to be the max standard rating for 2010.

All that stated I can't match the stability of a duallys wider stance, but I'm towing a open flatbed trailer not subject to wind drag/side load as I would with a 5th wheel rv camper. Were I trailering big and far beyond the 150 mile trip I make with my backhoe load once or twice every 3-4 years to do maint. on it I'd be sporting a dually just for the extra safety factor of stability, but a 6.5 in a dually is plenty powerful if correctly set up.

How many of the Common rail guys bragging for upped Hp theyv'e added pointing fingers at 6.5 guys "you shouldn't be pulling that load", have upped suspensions/braking/wheels to match the loads they feel encouraged to pull because of extra power they now have that are Hd 2500, or are bumper pulling 3500s . It's about balance can you yes, should you maybe/maybe not, can you run at a slower speed, run escorted, travel less populated hiway where necessary and be safe I think so, as long as you have your head in the game.

Tires blow, brakes fail, drivers fall asleep,even on "professionally" driven rigs, risk is the same some feel with some of the loads pulled or allowed to be pulled, many the novice RV has no business towing a 31 footer regardless of the rig moving the wheel, yet that is okay? It is the operator behind the wheel wherein the element of risk exists.

One can play what if games all day, smart drivers will do all they can to manage the risk of any given situation, some "professional" drivers roll eyes and chastise me, at my occasional pulls at big weight, and some of these same professionals can be heard on CB during a rain storm with reduced traction/visibility griping about the "damn 4 wheelers" running scared, afraid of a little rain blocking their way as they try to make "good time" at 70+ mph with their loads 20-80K # loads. Yes their rigs are built for it but is the driver capable.

So to answer the prime question can a 6.5 pull that weight, yes heck the 6.5 has more Hp than the OTR trucks used back in days gone by.

Dually for a 5er would be the way to go in the class you are looking at, I'm in market for a good 6.5 dually myself in not too distant future, just to avoid the hassle of splaining to a judge why my 1/2T is up to the task in event of getting stopped, or a fender bender and insurance company wanting an easy way to avoid paying a claim.

I could get a SAE engineers opinion (maybe) doubtful anybody would go beyond the factory 1500 badge on the side of the truck or door sticker classification, nothing in it for them to do a special study on a one off vehicle, of why my build is safe, but it would not be honored so end game it will just be better off to have the dually all way around. Same as if you overbuilt a trailer to haul on that hasn't been "certified for load" is not considered road worthy because it is home built, yet it is perfectly safe to tow on, it's just "not allowed" by DOT because of liability or setting precedent, it's far easier to say no, that is not allowed.