MrMarty51
Well-Known Member
See what kind of information can be garnered on such a topic.
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Pyrolytic from plastic to fuel
- Thread starter MrMarty51
- Start date
MrMarty51
Well-Known Member
Best seems to put together machines that can be operated in the home.
www.designworldonline.com
Another source I found that actually had a price listed for this one model. I do not know if this is the complete system or if more components needs to be added to make it a fully functioning machine. It seems that one about this size would be about what a home situation would need. I thought that link would take it to the unit I had looked at but it instead linked to some foreign language outfit.
The one I looked at was $2500.00 and IIRC would handle about one ton.
www.machinio.com
I have not done much research in the conversion process but, I think that in order to get usable fuel from the oil might require a distilling plant too.
The Machine That Converts Plastic Into Oil
Every year, over 260 million tons of plastic are produced throughout the world with a good amount being discarded in our oceans, forests, and other
www.designworldonline.com
Another source I found that actually had a price listed for this one model. I do not know if this is the complete system or if more components needs to be added to make it a fully functioning machine. It seems that one about this size would be about what a home situation would need. I thought that link would take it to the unit I had looked at but it instead linked to some foreign language outfit.
The one I looked at was $2500.00 and IIRC would handle about one ton.
Used ACE Reactors for sale | Machinio
ACE reactors for sale. Find stainless steel and glass lined reactors on Machinio.
www.machinio.com
I have not done much research in the conversion process but, I think that in order to get usable fuel from the oil might require a distilling plant too.
MrMarty51
Well-Known Member
Used ACE Reactors for sale | Machinio
ACE reactors for sale. Find stainless steel and glass lined reactors on Machinio.
www.machinio.com
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Yes, the description above is basically there.
Except doing this inside your house is the stupidest idea I have heard of including Russian roulette, because at least pointing the gun to your own head you recognize you may die. Average person might think this machine is akin to a pressure cooker full of chicken.
This thing is one mistake away from a full on bomb. Plain and simple. If you own acreage and can do this away from your home far enough you would set off a claymore- you are getting almost far enough away. No where near flammable materials. Obviously size of the device matters.
Always clean the plastic of. Food particles, labels, etc are contamination that you don’t want to deal with. Focus on recycling numbers 1,2,4,5. #6 is ok but produces low yield and you use as much energy to convert it as you get out so not worth doing. #3 is pvc- when it brakes down the chlorine in it combines with the loose hydrogen and make hydrochloric acid. Besides just being toxic, it eats your machine quickly. Even if you make a little, that acid damages your engine. So never any pvc. #7 is basically a junk category of plastic that could have mix of the others including the pvc so it is a no go also.
We built our plants with safety in mind over production rate. Because when it catches fire and maybe blows up- that tends to slow production anyways. Not to mention retraining operators to replace the dead and injured ones. Basically you are making a bomb. Plastic is hydrocarbon. Same as oil, diesel, gasoline. So you put it in a sealed vessel, cook it until it vaporizers and is under pressure-See? Bomb. To keep the product from catching fire and burning- the vessel needs to have NO oxygen. ZERO. NADA. Stressed enough? No. but we are moving on, Vacuum pump or nitrogen are both good options.
Moisture is not helpful. When you fracture it you get the loose oxygen molecule messing with other hydro-carbon chains or just allowing a little plastic to burn. So any moisture is a no go.
Pressure
We found 7psi to be our target in the vessel. Watch some YouTube videos of pressure cookers exploding to get a small clue of small container going boom with just air in it. Add the fuel and it gets scary quick. A 25 gallon unit blowing up will absolutely kill anyone within 1 acre. Then those outside the kill zone get to deal with a rain shower of burning oil and fuel everywhere. So all that said we wanted as low pressure as possible. Also higher pressure means you raise the boiling point (think radiator pressure keeps water from boiling) which means more heat required to do the job with no increase in yield.
Boiling plastic into a liquid, then into vapor builds its own pressure. The more heat into the liquid, more pressure. Again think car radiator. But realize you are dealing with extreme heat here.
Water boils at 212° right? So you put 1 cup of water on a piece of metal being kept at 213° and it will boil, Eventually. You add more heat so it happens faster- personally my stove goes full blast until it boils, then add the noodles, and adjust down heat as needed. But in a pyrolysis chamber we need way more than 212°- 535° is melting point... so you want more like 750° to get it rolling. DON’T USE THAT TEMPERATURE as a set figure. Your vessel and plumbing can determine different capabilities.
We used SF150 flanges and rated pipe for the plumbing. That 150 meant it is ok up to 150psi. But that is at temperature of 100°. As the temperature goes up, the pressure capacity goes down. And at 1000° it is only good for 20psi. (Chart pic)
Now, I said 750° and 1000° Right? How hot is the bottom of the pot on the stove in the flame? You have to plan with room for error.
Being able to heat the vessel to an exact heat by use of electricity is more accurate to not overheat, but as the material goes away, the temperature will rise. So even with electric you can’t “set it and forget it”
Except doing this inside your house is the stupidest idea I have heard of including Russian roulette, because at least pointing the gun to your own head you recognize you may die. Average person might think this machine is akin to a pressure cooker full of chicken.
This thing is one mistake away from a full on bomb. Plain and simple. If you own acreage and can do this away from your home far enough you would set off a claymore- you are getting almost far enough away. No where near flammable materials. Obviously size of the device matters.
Always clean the plastic of. Food particles, labels, etc are contamination that you don’t want to deal with. Focus on recycling numbers 1,2,4,5. #6 is ok but produces low yield and you use as much energy to convert it as you get out so not worth doing. #3 is pvc- when it brakes down the chlorine in it combines with the loose hydrogen and make hydrochloric acid. Besides just being toxic, it eats your machine quickly. Even if you make a little, that acid damages your engine. So never any pvc. #7 is basically a junk category of plastic that could have mix of the others including the pvc so it is a no go also.
We built our plants with safety in mind over production rate. Because when it catches fire and maybe blows up- that tends to slow production anyways. Not to mention retraining operators to replace the dead and injured ones. Basically you are making a bomb. Plastic is hydrocarbon. Same as oil, diesel, gasoline. So you put it in a sealed vessel, cook it until it vaporizers and is under pressure-See? Bomb. To keep the product from catching fire and burning- the vessel needs to have NO oxygen. ZERO. NADA. Stressed enough? No. but we are moving on, Vacuum pump or nitrogen are both good options.
Moisture is not helpful. When you fracture it you get the loose oxygen molecule messing with other hydro-carbon chains or just allowing a little plastic to burn. So any moisture is a no go.
Pressure
We found 7psi to be our target in the vessel. Watch some YouTube videos of pressure cookers exploding to get a small clue of small container going boom with just air in it. Add the fuel and it gets scary quick. A 25 gallon unit blowing up will absolutely kill anyone within 1 acre. Then those outside the kill zone get to deal with a rain shower of burning oil and fuel everywhere. So all that said we wanted as low pressure as possible. Also higher pressure means you raise the boiling point (think radiator pressure keeps water from boiling) which means more heat required to do the job with no increase in yield.
Boiling plastic into a liquid, then into vapor builds its own pressure. The more heat into the liquid, more pressure. Again think car radiator. But realize you are dealing with extreme heat here.
Water boils at 212° right? So you put 1 cup of water on a piece of metal being kept at 213° and it will boil, Eventually. You add more heat so it happens faster- personally my stove goes full blast until it boils, then add the noodles, and adjust down heat as needed. But in a pyrolysis chamber we need way more than 212°- 535° is melting point... so you want more like 750° to get it rolling. DON’T USE THAT TEMPERATURE as a set figure. Your vessel and plumbing can determine different capabilities.
We used SF150 flanges and rated pipe for the plumbing. That 150 meant it is ok up to 150psi. But that is at temperature of 100°. As the temperature goes up, the pressure capacity goes down. And at 1000° it is only good for 20psi. (Chart pic)
Now, I said 750° and 1000° Right? How hot is the bottom of the pot on the stove in the flame? You have to plan with room for error.
Being able to heat the vessel to an exact heat by use of electricity is more accurate to not overheat, but as the material goes away, the temperature will rise. So even with electric you can’t “set it and forget it”
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Will L.
Well-Known Member
So we used open flame to heat the vessel. We used multiple natural gas burners. We did a double “T” set up to not require twice the burners. Then the gases coming off the plant from when you are venting the pressure feeds the burners. Rather than “T” you should start with another set of burners to learn the system. When the system is in full tilt, and only using the “waste” gases to operate, there is still too many non compressible gasses being produced. So a gas flare is required. In theory you could get a compressor and recover it for use in the next starting cycle- but the expense of that system, and the difficulty of using it while keeping the pyrolysis pressure balanced is amazingly difficult- So just flare it.
The expense of electric heated will destroy any benifit.
Instantly cooling it through water like they do is a mistake Unless you have some oil burner heater system for your house that can burn any kind of mixed oils and gas at a non controllable mixture. As for making fuel for engines- it need to go into a distillation column.
Honestly you need to do it and make some of the mixed oil stuff through water just to learn how to operate the first part of the plant. You will end up with a lot of the mixed oil and a dark, stinky paraffin wax along with a more stinky yellow paraffin wax. Wax can be added to latter batch, as well as the oil. Each time it gets “cooked” you make less long chain (heavy oils) and more short chain (gasoline, mostly nepthane, and more non compressable gasses like propane, butane, etc.
After you know how to make the oil safely, then do the distillation column.
The expense of electric heated will destroy any benifit.
Instantly cooling it through water like they do is a mistake Unless you have some oil burner heater system for your house that can burn any kind of mixed oils and gas at a non controllable mixture. As for making fuel for engines- it need to go into a distillation column.
Honestly you need to do it and make some of the mixed oil stuff through water just to learn how to operate the first part of the plant. You will end up with a lot of the mixed oil and a dark, stinky paraffin wax along with a more stinky yellow paraffin wax. Wax can be added to latter batch, as well as the oil. Each time it gets “cooked” you make less long chain (heavy oils) and more short chain (gasoline, mostly nepthane, and more non compressable gasses like propane, butane, etc.
After you know how to make the oil safely, then do the distillation column.
MrMarty51
Well-Known Member
Wow. That is a mighty fine explanation of how it works, and of the hazards of such a device.
I guess setting in My garage making fuel from plastics might not be such a good way to spend My time.
It would though be nice to tour such a plant, hang out for several weeks and discover most of the functions of each step.
I guess setting in My garage making fuel from plastics might not be such a good way to spend My time.
It would though be nice to tour such a plant, hang out for several weeks and discover most of the functions of each step.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Not really many steps to it.
Clean plastic
Put in vessel and seal, evacuation of oxygen by vacuum or nitrogen.
Cook it, controlling temperature and pressure.
It flows through a water tank to cool for a generic mix oil.
Or instead of water it goes into the distillation column.
Control the flow coming out of each level on the column.
Store each one in its own tank.
Clean plastic
Put in vessel and seal, evacuation of oxygen by vacuum or nitrogen.
Cook it, controlling temperature and pressure.
It flows through a water tank to cool for a generic mix oil.
Or instead of water it goes into the distillation column.
Control the flow coming out of each level on the column.
Store each one in its own tank.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Here is a set up for tires. Same process, different supply products mean different temps and pressures with different yields.
This company is selling these, what they don’t tell you is the flare that is required.
Also their sulfur removal system doesn’t work. People have to buy and operate it, they tell them once you get it running right then the de-sulfur system will be able to keep up. Nope.
You have to look what the big outfits do to get rid of sulfur- and it is not cheap.
They don’t show all the details like on top of the heat exchanger that is a massive evaporative cooler, that won’t well operate in temps above 85° or humidity above 70% and either above 90 - just like an evaporator cooler in your garage. And you only get about 5% of the non compress-able gasses to condense even if your water temp is -40°f.
Carbon black this produces is to purified yet and getting anyone to buy this from you won’t happen. You will pay to get rid of it. Plastic only produces 2% of what tires do in the carbon black, and is 1/3 processed. So you can give it away free and if market runs low they might pay you enough to buy lunch for the guys once per semi truck load. Haha
This company is selling these, what they don’t tell you is the flare that is required.
Also their sulfur removal system doesn’t work. People have to buy and operate it, they tell them once you get it running right then the de-sulfur system will be able to keep up. Nope.
You have to look what the big outfits do to get rid of sulfur- and it is not cheap.
They don’t show all the details like on top of the heat exchanger that is a massive evaporative cooler, that won’t well operate in temps above 85° or humidity above 70% and either above 90 - just like an evaporator cooler in your garage. And you only get about 5% of the non compress-able gasses to condense even if your water temp is -40°f.
Carbon black this produces is to purified yet and getting anyone to buy this from you won’t happen. You will pay to get rid of it. Plastic only produces 2% of what tires do in the carbon black, and is 1/3 processed. So you can give it away free and if market runs low they might pay you enough to buy lunch for the guys once per semi truck load. Haha