• Welcome to The Truck Stop! We see you haven't REGISTERED yet.

    Your truck knowledge is missing!
    • Registration is FREE , all we need is your birthday and email. (We don't share ANY data with ANYONE)
    • We have tons of knowledge here for your diesel truck!
    • Post your own topics and reply to existing threads to help others out!
    • NO ADS! The site is fully functional and ad free!
    CLICK HERE TO REGISTER!

    Problems registering? Click here to contact us!

    Already registered, but need a PASSWORD RESET? CLICK HERE TO RESET YOUR PASSWORD!

Please teach me on intercoolers

Skylark

Skylark

Member
Messages
54
Reaction score
0
Location
Grants Pass, OR
I posted this on another site and I only had one reply (a very good one). I'm hoping for more opinions and ideas.
Here is the deal. I'm not looking for killer power just low egts and mpg. A turbo similar to the HX40-II may be in the future. I want to intercool it either way. I don't know a lot about water to air intercoolers but I'm leaning that way for a few reasons. 1. I don't have to block the radiator potentially causing cooling issues. 2. I have read that the water to air can be just as good as a large air to air (I don't really know how to compare apples to apples on this though). 3. I'm thinking about being slightly sneaky and doing wmi and using the return side of the intercooler as the supply for the wmi. 4. I don't want to deal with cutting a core support to do ATA cooler. I believe that with a WTA I may be able to mount it above the intake and be simplified in the plumbing. Does anybody know how hot the water return side typically is on a WTA intercooler? How detrimental are a couple of 90 degree bends in the intercooler plumbing?
So, after seeing my thoughts and ideas. What would you do and why?
 
fwiw I went water injection. Reason being we have mild temps here, I tow only when on vacation. intercooler seemed to be a big hassle when I only want cooler egt when in the hills. Aside from that it's good to go. There has been a few people who did water intercoolers. I think the one issue will be finding a good duty cycle pump. Be nice if you could get a wind driven pump, they have them on planes so the hydraulic system gets power to land. I know they have wind driven led driving lights but they only require minimum juice. Maybe someone knows how to put a small fan in the intake so it runs off boost. Yeah, I had a couple rye n cokes. lol. One thing that would be helpful is to know your goals, Do you want cooler egt's all the time. Does it get hot in Oregon, do you travel further south a lot. As you say, intercooler with wmi would be awesome. Even water intercooling would require a small radiator up front and where do you want to mount that. I also have the ATT and you would be happy with that. Since you have not filled out your sig, have you upgraded anything like the EXHAUST. Caps, hmm says me, that is the best thing you can do for your engine as a starting point. Ed
 
Good point on the sig, will do!
It is a stock 2000 K3500 CCLB DRW with a 6.5 auto. The only mod is a crappy PMD relocate to the intake and 4" exhaust from where the soot trap would have been.
 
Skylark said:
Good point on the sig, will do!
It is a stock 2000 K3500 CCLB DRW with a 6.5 auto. The only mod is a crappy PMD relocate to the intake and 4" exhaust from where the soot trap would have been.
Click to expand...
doing the exhaust alone will give you better mpg and lower your egt's. It can breathe better. Next on your list should be gauges as that'll let you know the egt's and boost levels. Heath in Ellensburg Wa should be a next mod as he can give you an ecm that'll up your towing power and lower egt's as per the timing curve. Welcome to the site.
 
Thanks for the welcome! I have seen you on the other site as well. I will do a Diamond Eye exhaust, gauges and a tune for sure. From there it will be wmi, intercooled or both. Most likely it will have a turbo upgrade and stop at that.
 
Edzzed said:
Does it get hot in Oregon, Ed
Click to expand...

Ed, sometimes.

Here in the Willamette Valley the summer temps are usually in the upper 80s' to 90s', but will often go into the low 100s' for a few days in August.

In Southern Oregon where Skylark lives the temps will usually be similar, and up to just a few degrees warmer, except you can expect up to a couple weeks of 100+ days. One thing really nice about the Grants Pass and Cave Junction area is that they usually get a nice cool evening sea breeze coming up the canyon from Crescent City (California coastal town).

Eastern Oregon in the summer is often similar to Southern Oregon.

Towing most places here in Oregon will involve some kind of hills. All the way from itsy bitsy ones to a few that will really tax the 6.5 unless it is well set up. Southern Oregon does have a few of the tougher hills, particularly on I-5, with a lot of the medium to smaller ones.

Currently I have no experience with either, but my feeling is that WMI, or an intercooler, would be an important part of setting up for towing.

Don
 
My reasoning for the wmi or the wta intercooler is due to my old super duty. With the stock intercooler it performed well but with my old trailer I was 22,500 pounds when I was loaded going to the coast. I swapped to a larger intercooler and my egt's dropped. A nice side benefit was that I got a little better mpg all of the way around.
 
It does get hot (10-15 days per year over 100) but not crazy hot. We love road trips. We bought our truck in FL, did a trip to Chicago last year, El Centro, CA the year before (this fat man was melting in 122 degree temps!) and we do at least one major camping trip per year. We have also been known to drive 300+ miles for a burger. We are also planning a trip back to Alaska in the next year or two. I want this sucker to go anywhere at anytime and that is why MPG is a concern.
 
Skylark said:
It does get hot (10-15 days per year over 100) but not crazy hot. We love road trips. We bought our truck in FL, did a trip to Chicago last year, El Centro, CA the year before (this fat man was melting in 122 degree temps!) and we do at least one major camping trip per year. We have also been known to drive 300+ miles for a burger. We are also planning a trip back to Alaska in the next year or two. I want this sucker to go anywhere at anytime and that is why MPG is a concern.
Click to expand...
If you are headed to Alaska, you'll have to drop in. I can give you a few places in BC you'll want to visit and some you'll want to avoid. If you come up the I-5 and take the truck exit at 275 we are 7 miles from the USA and 4 blocks off that major route. we have never had anything more than 97f here. 98f would be a new record. It does get hot in the interior, Osoyoos is Canada's only desert.
 
For an air to air intercooler, you basically have 3 options for mounting.

1. hanging below the bumper. Sometimes referred to as the "hanging ATA".

2. Modify the radiator support to fit it in front of the radiator (or remove the airconditioning)

3. Mount it above the engine and duct air to it. Referred to as the "top mount ATA".

Advantages are it's effective all times and it's stone axe simple. Short of blowing of a tubing boot or puncturing the core, it just plain. Problems are another item in the cooling air flow before the radiator, extra intake ducting, and just fitting the bloody thing in the truck. Since it uses air as a cooling medium, it must be larger than a water to air for the same drop. Also be aware there are a couple different type of ATA out there. IE: bar and plate, extruded, tube and fin, etc....

Water to air offers a few advantages and a few disadvantages. Because water is a better heat medium, the part in the turbo ducting can be smaller than an ata. It can also be placed anywhere which is often used to it's advantage to minimize the length of the piping. Disadvantages are that it thermal soaks fairly quickly on long pulls (that's a size and airflow dependent relationship), requires pumps/hoses/fans/wiring/reservoirs/etc and still needs a radiator somewhere on the front of the truck. The rad tends to be a bit small on a gmt400 because of limited space, which also limits the time it can run before thermal soaking. You end up mounting in the bumper or below it like the ATA, or modifying the core support to get it in there.

Air generally doesn't like to turn a corner more than 10 degrees before it starts to separate and enter a turbulent state at the corner. This is why "3 angle valve jobs" are effective, it minimizes turbulence as the air enter the cylinder around the valve seat or the "breakover angle" if you prefer to think of it that way. Now 10 degrees isn't practical for ducting air around the engine bay in our trucks, it just won't fit or it would be one heck of a long spaghetti like mess. Bends limited to no more than 45 degrees or a long smooth radius for turns tighter than 45 seems a more practical compromise.

WMI isn't a panacea either. You have to mount the pump, run the wiring and tubing, figure out your desired flow rate and then find a place to mount a water tank. If you don't care, you can just stick a big one in the bed and be done with it. I don't like giving up bed space for a jug of water that I essentially only use when towing, so I made an under bed tank. I custom made an 8 gallon tank for under my bed (http://www.alcohol-injection.com/forum/install-pics/1998-k2500-gmc-sierra-6-5-turbo-diesel-3121.html) and I can suck that dry on one pull up lookout pass. In fact, it's dry before the top. Then you have to find a place to refill it. Believe me, that's not as easy as it sounds out on the road. The words "service station" don't really apply anywhere anymore......

You also have to consider that come freezing temperatures you need to drain it completely or it will freeze and split lines, crack pump heads, etc. If you go WMI, pony up and buy a kit. Don't try and cobble one together, although many have and are reported to work fine. A kit is as least designed to work properly (ie: shut off flow effectively) and most have progressive controllers which can lessen your water usage (ie: more driving time between fillups). Not to mention you have a chance of warranty or tech support if something doesn't work right. I use a devils own kit and have nothing but good things to say about the kit or Chance and The Boys are the shop. It's a little less expensive than most of the other ones out there also.

I'm not sure what you mean but using the return side for the WMI?

Do you mean parasite-ing off the water cooling reservoir to inject water?

That's not a great idea as it will deplete the water supply fairly quickly on a long pull and then you won't have WMI or water to air cooling.

My recommendation (after you confirm your rotating assembly is in good shape) would be to make sure you have the latest water pump, clutch and 9 blade fan on your truck (2000 should already be good to go). Make sure your clutch still works as per and your rad core/AC condenser/coolers are clean. Then I'd go with the larger exhaust. I would finish up with a Turbo master and a Heath Diesel program in the PCM. I towed this:

1237d529-1.jpg


8500 lbs and a 9 foot high sail, somewhere around 16,000-17,000 CGVWR

on this route:

comx-gander.jpg


with the exhaust and HD stuff. The HD PCM is worth the money compared to the stock program when towing but call him and let him know how you intend to use it so he sets it up the right way for you. I had no problems, well...except that my old block popped a piston crown on Snoqualamie pass in Washington and had to be replaced. Some of the killer hills on the route were a little slower, but that was more because of the traffic than my truck. WMI made about a 50-60 degree EGT difference (helped with ECT also) with a 10 GPH nozzle at full battle cry.....

Turbo swap?

Sorry, I'm no help there. I've got a new GM8 on mine and it's done whatever I've asked of it no problem.

Now, I am going to install an ATA cooler, but it's more for personal curiosity than anything else.....
 
If you look at post #17 from the thread titled A TEAM TURBO from 1999GMC (sorry, haven't figured out how to link stuff yet) he has a few pics of a hanging ATA. I like his idea and fully intend on stealing it (the idea) and using it on the 94. No need to worry about turning anything on or off.
 
Great White: Thanks for all of the info! Very informative!
Do you mean parasite-ing off the water cooling reservoir to inject water? That was a thought. I believe that I will probably do one or the other. The rotating assembly is in good health, it only has 87K on it.
 
sshewins said:
If you look at post #17 from the thread titled A TEAM TURBO from 1999GMC (sorry, haven't figured out how to link stuff yet) he has a few pics of a hanging ATA. I like his idea and fully intend on stealing it (the idea) and using it on the 94. No need to worry about turning anything on or off.
Click to expand...

I have to admit that he has a VERY clean set up but honestly it won't work for me. The cooler being in a place that I can hurt it won't work. I have been know to "boldly go where no one in their right mind has gone before".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top