New Heath turbo

[Cali6.5]

I would assume that Heath would have a turbomaster on his turbo and NOT the vacuum crap!

 

[great white]

$1,400 is a lot for a turbo. Then again, Volvo wants $2,400 for the replacement turbo on my boat, bastards.

I assume the Heath turbo would tap into the stock vac pump wastegate actuator? And all the issues that go with that POS system?

The pic thats been posted on the forum shows a non wastegated tubine housing and an allusion to there being a wastegatee version in the future.

I would assume a garrett design would use a boost referenced/controlled wastegate.

The vacuum system would work just as well.

Using turbine drive pressure for wastegate control is less desirable (least desirable actually) , but it works...

 

[Chevypoor]

When I called Heath a few days ago asking questions I spoke to guy in the research department. He said the Super 84 is non wastegated like the ATT. He said I should wait for the smaller gated turbo they are getting ready to come out with. He stated the new turbo will have its own special turbomaster included. He indicated the top boost on the Super 84 is about 25 and the top boost on the new turbo should be 18-20. They will not be recommending head studs with the new turbo.

 

[Chevypoor]

Originally posted by BigT, $1400 is alot for a turbo

That price includes his new cold air box which looks to be real nice. The turbo alone is about $1100.

 

[WarWagon]

ATT is better price point and if you don't get Bill on the phone the support there sucks. Bill is one of the biggest ATT Haters out there cause he does'nt sell it. Quote "You can paint the stripe on a skunk but you still have a skunk" I love the skunk under my hood, gotten great service from Dennis and Leroy.

No s#it.

Perhaps this will lend credibility to what some people have been saying all along: GET THE FACTORY TURBO OFF THE ENGINE!!!

Bill has his own ideas (or rehashed others ideas) and isn't interested in discussing other ways to make power from the 6.5 unless he sells it. I once asked him about ceramic coating the prechambers to keep the cooling load down and increase MPG's. Total waste of our time that conversation was. He didn't like the ATT at that time either and the prick was more than happy to let us waste fuel with just the turbomaster on the undersized factory turbo. They went out of their way to discuss their inability to tune the ATT on one of their trucks. The amount of money I lost with MPG at 7 working the 1993 with a turbomaster is enough to earn the right to call him everything but looking out for the 6.5 community.

With an 'undersized' 6.2 injection pump maxed out I can't get my 1993 ATT combo to smoke. It would smoke with the GM3 especially at altitude with a 6.2 pump. My 1995 w/6.2 longblock has serious engine problems, precups that are too small, and will smoke on the factory tune. Regardless both get way better MPG towing than the turbomaster ever did. Tune has everything to do with not smoking. (The small factory turbo will smoke on the top end rather than the low end with too much fuel.) Yes, the Turbomaster improved power on the 1993 - but there are better ways to go about it now that pay for themselves in fuel saved. Later 1994+ years used higher boost so no benefit to available power.

In summery Bill is years behind 'current events'. I should have been reading about this in 2009. Today for the same amount of cash you can bolt on a ATT and a BD Spool valve that quite frankly makes other setups look and sound like a toy. I am sure we will be reading about a spool valve from Heath Diesel in about 3-4 years. Something about having 10 PSI of boost passing (at) 2K RPM and pulling hard to the redline. Any 'smaller' turbo simply won't pull as hard to redline as the ATT does.

As far as "lag"...
You must be thinking about stomping the throttle from a dead stop and calling the time it takes the engine to get to 2000 RPM "lag". Larger turbos start to boost somewhere from 1500 RPM to 2000 RPM. The lower RPM the boost starts the less hard it will pull to redline. It is simple turbo sizing 101. The BD valve brings on the boost sooner like a variable turbo and is another angle dragging a 1982 engine design into the 21 century. Regardless big turbo's don't boost below a certain RPM. The amount of time it takes to go from 0 boost to full boost at 2500 RPM (or any other RPM it WILL generate boost) is technically "lag". You are not going to notice or care about this short puff of smoke. If you held the engine to 1000 RPM with a manual transmission the larger turbo's are not going to generate any boost. It is out of their RPM range.

120 MPH... If i wanted something fast I would go find a 1973 Olds Vista cruiser wagon with the police cruiser package. 4 Barrel, 455, dual exhaust, and good for a clocked on radar 153 MPH. Nowadays this is called "Felony Speeding" and you would loose your right to vote, possess a firearm, etc. A 3/4 ton or 1/2 ton old truck is anything but 'fast'. Modern diesels, but, we aren't talking about them. Really a work truck should be measured by MPG, ability to climb the hill somewhere near the speed limit at rated load with a good wind drag trailer. Sustained power not some 1/4 mile race car toy stuff. It should be getting the race car to the track... Dyno's are also a safe way to rate and compare continuous power. You can sustain full WOT power for miles here in AZ and the Rockies while towing and not exceed the speed limit. Even a 2008 Duramax is humbled to the speed limit towing here with serious concerns for ECT. If you want something fast from stoplight to stoplight there are many better choices than a heavy pickup out there.

There are uses for a small turbo. Unloaded DD 1/2 tons, off road... Almost better served MPG wise with a NA 6.x engine.

 

[Big T]

That price includes his new cold air box which looks to be real nice. The turbo alone is about $1100.

He owes me one of the cold air boxes. I traded a set of polished PYOs for them. I need to send him another e-mail.

 

[Chevypoor]

I agree with the turbo being to small which is one of many reasons why I am going to a bigger turbo. Every situation is different and I have never ran the turbomaster as a stand alone option. I have also had never really driven a mechanically injected truck. I also drive on relatively flat ground.

In my case the turbo master and tune (installed together) have performed flawlessly within the range of the turbo (1700-2100 rpm). Towing EGTS at cruise went from 850 to 650. My mileage towing on around a 50/50 tank ( half towing, half empty or half carrying a load) went from 12-14 mpg to 14.5-16.5 mpg. My empty/ working mileage stayed about the same at 17.5-19 mpg. EGTS dropped at empty cruise at 70 from 650 to 500. Boost at 70 running empty dropped from 6 psi to just a tick under 5 psi. I am a general contractor and the truck has a ladder rack and I tow an 18' flat bed, a 6x12 enclosed trailer, and 6x9 landscape trailer. Nothing heavy by the standards here but still a working truck. I routinely carry 500-1000 lbs on the rack or in the bed and more than once have done it towing the 6x12 (about 4000-4500 lbs gross trailer weight). She logs 3500-4000 miles a month running empty, hauling, and towing.

Now, earlier in the year when speaking to Bill I mentioned the A team and said he did not like it. He wanted to sell me on his new as yet then un released turbo. Everything I have read on the A team turbo suggests it is a superlative turbo. However I have a Heath tune and my understanding is the reflash is minimal and I have heard the KOJO is the best tune for the ATT. You add that cost in and the turbos price are virtually even. That is why I am still on the fence and interested in the new turbo. Also, everything I have bought from them has worked as advertised.

 

[tanman_2006]

I have had good luck with my gm4 on the 95 but I will end up going with a hybrid hx there.

Towing will be an att on the big trucks of mine.

No one says heaths products don't perform like advertised, he just is not on the frontier with his products. He is stuck in a my way or the highway rut. Guess what, that doesn't make for good business.

Source Unknown

 

[Paveltolz]

went to Heath's site to see it......no pic?....... Paveltolz you have a pic of it?

Here's mine:

Non-Wastegated






Installed though now I'm using the OEM "Horn" upper intake to keep the boots from blowing off as the 3" at the 90* to the Peninsular is too short and keeps working out when holding 22psi.


It says A/R 60 on the outside but what's been done to the inside is a mystery to me.

Don't go hating folks, you won't get the specs on anyone else's turbo here either unless you buy it, open it, and measure it yourself.

 

[Paveltolz]

When I called Heath a few days ago asking questions I spoke to guy in the research department. He said the Super 84 is non wastegated like the ATT. He said I should wait for the smaller gated turbo they are getting ready to come out with. He stated the new turbo will have its own special turbomaster included. He indicated the top boost on the Super 84 is about 25 and the top boost on the new turbo should be 18-20. They will not be recommending head studs with the new turbo.

I got the same word though I've not seen the unit. "Waste gated turbo for heavy trucks that haul." Approx $1175 was on the message relayed to me.

As for small, yeah but like I've said earlier, the S-84 pulls hard, very hard up past normal driving speeds.

 

[great white]

It's not like "specs" are hard to find for the ones touted as GMx replacements.

The ATT is a mitsu TD07-22a derivative. Spec for that are a Google away. Even if not exactly the same, it gets you in the ballpark.

The Penisular is a BW S2e derivative. Google again for specs (although BW is a bit tighter than most)

Holsets are pretty much what you get, but once you know your model specs are also "Google-able".

Bills new one looks like a Garrett. Garretts are high quality units (although the pics above have me wondering if it actually is a real Garrett). Model will eventually get out and all will be revealed for those savvy enough. If it is a ball bearing cartridge, that price is actually pretty good. Ball bearing centers get "on speed" roughly 20-25% faster than the journal/plain bearing centers. When talking speeds of around 100,000 rpm, it doesn't take much to make a big difference.

The GMx series has been measured 6 ways to Sunday.

Manufacturers only make so many wheels, so many center sections and so many housings. There isn't going to be a singular development and production run for only a couple units. Not cost effective, unless you're willing to pay through the nose for one or willing to place a minimum order.

The rest is smoke and mirrors (otherwise known as marketing).


Personally, I'm working on a MAF display to actually measure the mass of air each unit puts out rather than the very poor "PSI" indications typically used....mass is where the magic happens....

 

[Chevypoor]

I am almost certain it is a Garret. When I spoke to him in May I mentioned the ATT and the Holset turbo as an option. I thought he said the ATT was to big and the Holset's are wrong for the truck. He stated he preferred Garret turbos.

Thanks for the pics Paveltolz. Good to finally see some pics of the S-84. Nice job on the intake/ fab install. Looks real sharp.

 

[6.5L]

Idk. I'm happy with my Holset. Works to my needs when I'm daily driving. But I guess it is wrong for my pickup. I should probably start making sure my truck runs only Heath approved Garrett products :/ to make a statement as bold as an entire brand is not suitable for a truck seems insane. That is like saying turbo's are wrong for diesels. People runs with whatever works best for them, and in my opinion whatever turbo no matter what brand that works for them, then that is the right turbo for the truck.

 

[Chevypoor]

Of course he wants to sell his turbo and products... that his business. Weather we choose to buy is another question.

From what I understand except in a few limited instances the only bad turbo is the GM factory turbo. Anything is an improvement.

I love the way my truck feels at 60-65. Anything much over seventy and you can feel it. The wife drove it the other day and asked me why does this truck feel like it is working so hard at seventy! Once that tach gets north of 2100 or so you foot gets deeper into the throttle to maintain speed. At sixty you have to lift to maintain speed. Cannot wait to ditch that GM turbo... got a bad case of big turbo lust

 

[great white]

I am almost certain it is a Garret....He stated he preferred Garret turbos....

Not surprising as I think I remember Bill saying they were Garrrett's on the LSR truck and he had a "contact" on the inside help him choose them. But that was 2+ years ago we had that convo, so I may be remembering it wrong. Garrett's are great units (HKS uses them and rebrands them after some "magic"), as long as you're talking the GT series and not the older "T" series. Turbonetics uses the "T" series last I checked. They've probably transitioned to the GT series since I don't think Garrett even make teh "T" anymore (don't quote me on that though).

....From what I understand except in a few limited instances the only bad turbo is the GM factory turbo. Anything is an improvement...

Maybe.




















Or maybe not.....

 

[Big T]

I sent Bill an e-mail checking on the status of my cold air intake box and he indicated that these will start shipping next week. This will be going on my son's '94 Suburban. So the only critical performance item he's missing is the ATT. He just needs to budget for that expenditure.

 

[turbovanman]

Here's mine:

Non-Wastegated
View attachment 39194
View attachment 39197

View attachment 39196
View attachment 39195

Installed though now I'm using the OEM "Horn" upper intake to keep the boots from blowing off as the 3" at the 90* to the Peninsular is too short and keeps working out when holding 22psi.
View attachment 39198

It says A/R 60 on the outside but what's been done to the inside is a mystery to me.

Don't go hating folks, you won't get the specs on anyone else's turbo here either unless you buy it, open it, and measure it yourself.

Looks like a Chinese KO compressor housing?

Either way, guess he figured he'd get in on the game, and why not? There is a market. Some will prefer the ATT, some the Holsets like me, others his turbo. Pick your poison, none are really wrong.

 

[tanman_2006]

Looks like a Chinese KO compressor housing?

Either way, guess he figured he'd get in on the game, and why not? There is a market. Some will prefer the ATT, some the Holsets like me, others his turbo. Pick your poison, none are really wrong.

What I don't understand is why nongated for dd and gated for towing.

Source Unknown

 

[great white]

What I don't understand is why nongated for dd and gated for towing.

Source Unknown

It all depends on the wheels and the AR and what is chosen.

Who knows what's going on in Bill's lean-to anyways?

It might very well end up being only a wastegated version available for purchase. From Paul's posts, it kind of sounds like what they're playing with right now is a first "kick at the cat".

The welding on the downpipe to turbine housing would seem to indicate just that. If nothing else, Bill's stuff that is sold as "regular stock" always has a nice, clean, finished look to it.

Personally, if given my choice: I'd like to see and external wastegate solution with a header pipe (downpipe) that incorporate the exhaust rejoin further downstream. A lot of internal wastegates have problems with exhaust flow rejoin and turbulence at the exducer.

 

[turbovanman]

What I don't understand is why nongated for dd and gated for towing.

Source Unknown

I don't know.

It all depends on the wheels and the AR and what is chosen.

Who knows what's going on in Bill's lean-to anyways?

It might very well end up being only a wastegated version available for purchase. From Paul's posts, it kind of sounds like what they're playing with right now is a first "kick at the cat".

The welding on the downpipe to turbine housing would seem to indicate just that. If nothing else, Bill's stuff that is sold as "regular stock" always has a nice, clean, finished look to it.

Personally, if given my choice: I'd like to see and external wastegate solution with a header pipe (downpipe) that incorporate the exhaust rejoin further downstream. A lot of internal wastegates have problems with exhaust flow rejoin and turbulence at the exducer.

Exactly, external gates rock, love the screamer pipe on my turbo Caravan but it is more plumbing, cost and complexity and people are already complaining of the cost as it is.