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New Heath turbo

Cali6.5

Cali6.5

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Location
Central Coast California
I see Heath has a new turbo set up. When I spoke with him some time ago he mentioned that he hired the engineer that did his Bonneville turbo to design this one for towing. Has anyone bought it and installed it? It is a bit pricey compared to the ATT (about $1300 compared to $800 for ATT) but he says it includes the cold air intake that he found was essential for maximizing the turbo performance. I am really torn betweeen Heath and ATT because so many of you here have so much great stuff to say about the ATT and I dont think I have heard really anything bad here about it. That being said, I am a big fan of Heath and really like what he says about his turbo and he hasnt let me down yet. I just wondered if anyone got one, installed one, got info/input on it or has even heard about it?
 
I am also wondering as well.

Considering the ATT and looking hard at the Heath turbo.

When I called and talked to them at Heath a couple of days ago they said they are getting ready (maybe 6 weeks?) to come out with another smaller waste gated turbo specifically for towing. My understanding is that there current turbo has no wastegate and is possibly similar to the ATT in performance... maybe? They do recommend head studs for the current turbo. The new one I believe they will not be recommending any mods.
 
I have the turbo, tune and upgraded cam and have enjoyed playing around with different tunes, injectors and comparing turbos. My truck, with the new turbo, is happiest for my druthers with the Stock injectors. When I was preparing for some speed runs, I ran the HO injectors and had plenty of boost and power up to where I called it quits (cross winds) at 120 mph. I can easily make 22 psi boost and that's over baro pressure.

Disclaimer. My truck doesn't achieve advertised performance results with any upgrade from any manufacture/distributor. The ATT didn't perform as well as I thought but, put on another 6.5 here in the valley, it blew my results away (in a good way). That said, my truck doesn't perform as well as Bill or Joe's but I am working on some issues that, regardless of turbo/tune set ups, will not solve the can't get out of its own way (focusing on the drive line now...not to derail the thread but my truck has always felt this way. Some upgrades have helped but...).

I've driven Heath's truck with the turbo and its very quick, much quicker than . Joe's truck, Bill's son, is even faster.
Both have the upgraded cams, stock IPs. Joe runs stock injectors where Bill's are the HO units.
 
What is an HO injector? I thought/was under the assumption that stock injectors can literally outflow a stockish IP up to around 400 hp?
 
turbovanman wrote: what is a HO injector?
Click to expand...

Heath sells a Bosch HO injector. I believe the "pop" pressure is higher on these nozzles which increases the rate at which the fuel is delivered. More power and more egt's. I have never understood completely how they work as I am still learning about diesels..... originally a gas motor guy.

Paveltolz experiences mirror what I have heard. I few months ago I needed to set my timing and made a post on another forum. Crickets. No help from those guys. I called all the shops and nobody new how to do it or they would not change it from factory. I called Bill at Heath since I had just purchased his chip and turbomaster. Sent me to a great guy in PA who set my timing. So I drove 220 miles and 4 hrs to set my timing. Turns out my pump had been installed retarded so advancing mine made it run alot better. This guy had recently installed 2 or 3 of his cams in stock turboed trucks with fantastic results.

The only thing that is holding me back is the ATT's great rep here and its great track record.
 
ATT is better price point and if you don't get Bill on the phone the support there sucks. Bill is one of the biggest ATT Haters out there cause he does'nt sell it. Quote "You can paint the stripe on a skunk but you still have a skunk" I love the skunk under my hood, gotten great service from Dennis and Leroy.
 
Cali6.5: I bought and installed it at the end of March this year. Picked it up when I drove the 12 hrs and 800 miles (Topper alert) to Bill's to the IP timed after engine replacement. Talk about 'retarded installation'...that would apply to me and my learning curves. Still feel stuck on stupid most of the time.

HO injectors and EGTs: Didn't mean to imply the HO injectors were causing my higher EGTs as that isn't the cause for me (have to quantify that as my results are never typical). My EGTs haven't changed with Tunes (Eco-neuter, and two performance), Turbo (four all told), Injectors (Std [two sets] and HO) combinations. Front drive shaft, Differential and CV axles are currently removed from doing front hubs and temps have dropped about 50* (cv joints are installed, just the axles removed from them). I may change Air Boxes as the current CAI doesn't reach the fender opening. Maybe source the old fitting at the fender from a strip yard, try the AEM unit or source a K-47. Joe runs the flat panel airbox (pre K-47) FWIW. Tires are also on the list but I digress, as usual.

As I've a 'new engine', my observations are further skewed by break in as the motor gets better, noticeably, over time. I put the HO injectors back in with the S-84 and note the truck runs better with that combination now than it did when there were only 2000 miles on the motor. I haven't driven with the Std. Injectors and this turbo in a while so I'll go back to that soon and see what happens.
These HO injectors have larger nozzles and these have all been balanced at 2400psi. With this cam, tune, and the higher speeds I was going for, it was an added performance choke point elimination. Truck runs fine with either as a daily driver.

Back to the Turbo's

ATT. Great turbo, great rep, great price, large amount of experience posted (no censor***ing), able to contact both members of the development team, and excellent vendor access here with Leroy (Burning oil). I actually saw an improvement, over time, in MPGs. Can be had as Turbo only or in Kit Form that is ready to bolt up with parts to adjust for the slight modifications to the upper intake and, IIRC, oil return line (mine was modified by previous owner). You'll really want an upgraded tune which can be had through Leroy. I haven't heard of any who have had less than great results with them.

S-84: Garret A/R 60 base line. What Bill's Engineer has done to it, I don't know. I consider Bill a friend and recognize he's also a business man and so I don't pry. Probably why we're still friends. That said, I sometimes get to be a lab rat or will get an out of the blue call about "have you seen this or we're working on that" which gets my 'SQUIRREL' mode in high gear. But, I am not a tech library and am not a source for inside info. If I've been asked to keep confidences, I do. Nuff said.

I haven't seen the Air Box so no comment on that.

Tunes, since you have to talk to him on the phone anyway for a new or re-program anyway, he may cut you some slack based on the age of the current one you're running.

Tunes. In addition to KOJO, Heath 's also done great work with the ATT, HX-series as well as the GM series. Other's are working their creative talents too but that's up to them to post up. Regardless, there are advantages and disadvantages. Results are subjective. One either likes the results or doesn't. The advantage is that you can always work with either of them to tweek the tune to your druthers. 'Your results may vary.'

Hijack alert: Stay away from Steaksauce (google it).
 
Paul, did you run the ATT with both the stock and HO injectors to be able to discern a difference in mileage?

I have the HO injectors from Heath with the ATT and my mileage is nowhere near what people claim. I'm lucky to get 16 mpg highway with my set up. I'll note that most of the guys claiming 19 to 20 mpg with the ATT have lighter 2 wd trucks.

BTW just sold 2 of the doors and the 2nd and 3rd row seats from the '95. Pretty much down to harvesting the engine and Trans (when time allows) and scrapping the thing.
 
Big T said:
Paul, did you run the ATT with both the stock and HO injectors to be able to discern a difference in mileage?

I have the HO injectors from Heath with the ATT and my mileage is nowhere near what people claim. I'm lucky to get 16 mpg highway with my set up. I'll note that most of the guys claiming 19 to 20 mpg with the ATT have lighter 2 wd trucks.

BTW just sold 2 of the doors and the 2nd and 3rd row seats from the '95. Pretty much down to harvesting the engine and Trans (when time allows) and scrapping the thing.
Click to expand...

I would say "the devil is in the details" for your mpg concerns.

My 98 is a k2500, ECLB, I have a fibreglass cap with a full bed insert made from about 2 sheets of 3/4 plywood. The bed is also rhino lined. It's an automatic with 4:10 gearing. 265 tires.

IOW: it's big and heavy.

I am not running an ATT, but I get 17-18 combined and can tickle 20 mpg straight highway. A tank of nothing but short hops and "city" gets me around 15-16.

I used to get 13-14 (city or highway, didn't matter, always the same) until I started working the calibration. Now I pull about 250 hp and 420-440 tq at the wheels while getting the mpg numbers above.

Mmmmm, the cake tastes good.....;)

I would say you need to find a decent programmer to work with to get your mpg's up.

On these trucks, mpg is more dependant on what the PCM is doing than just the "hard parts" alone. It's a blended solution (partnership?) between the two areas.

Well, as long as it's a ds4 that is......db2 is a different ball o' wax.

:)
 
My first set of "HO" injectors were from SSD (let the Booing begin - I was a real noob back then. Now, just a functioning ignoramus with only one hobby).
No I didn't see the "40hp gain" and mpgs were low 15-to high 16. They came out long before I got the ATT. Delphi bodies IIRC. GM-5 Mileage was less than the old set of injectors which must have been original. I was seeing high 15 to low 17s on the originals which had 138k miles on them. Replacements were 'Bosch' rebuilds with CKO nozzles with similar lower HO MPG results.

So, I only ran the ATT with standard injectors (Bosch rebuilds with correct nozzles). Old motor, ATT, the best I saw on Highway was 17-18 with an occasional 19 and even a 20 but with long downhill and tail wind (Isenhower Tunnel down to Limon CO.). Keeping it below 70 seemed to be the best way to improve mileage regardless of turbos.

New motor, S-84 turbo, standard injectors, staying at around 65 I'll see a consistent 19mpg (standard injectors). City average is 16mpg and I'm in a lot of stop and go traffic and on the freeway I'm typically doing 70-75. I could do 65 but I'm a bit impatient.

Same set up but with HO injectors I did get one tank at 21.7 mpg coming back from El Mirage CA to Mesquite NV. Lots of uphills and one very long downhill into Nevada (I coasted it in neutral) but I also did the 120 mph run on the flats above Mesquite on that tank. The speed run probably balanced out the gains from the coasting.:D
 
My last tank with proper TDCO set and reman bosch stock injectors netted 18.1 combined. I pretty much behaved with no jackrabbit starts and seventy mph on highway. Can't go much slower on mass pike or it gets dangerous.
 
The more I look at Bill's new Garrett......errr....I mean s-84, the more it looks like a GT2 series.

The calculations on a 300 Hp 6.5 (had to make a few educated guesses, like BSFC) would drop it right in the efficiency zone for Honeywell's published maps.

A GT2 series is nothing to sneeze at either. Even though it's not a GT3 series, it's still a serious piece of kit. The new Garretts have ball bearing tech and some go even further in to the "new tech" than that. If they do a wastegated one right (BW EFR series for example) It should be a hellacious runner and capable of easily supporting a "smoke free" 300 crank HP. Just gotta get the fuel in there at that point.....

If it is a GT2 (non wastegate version), it's shouldn't "lag" much and be fairly responsive. If Bill swings the calibration (IE: tune) the right way it should light off pretty much as well as a GM8 and still have pull up to 3400.

All depends on what they have actually selected for turbine trim and AR though.

1400 smackers is still a hard swallow though.....
 
Hmm, thinking about it again, I guess the only real problem with my last post is that GT2 series tend to all be T25 mounts where the 6.5 is a T3 flange. That would seem to mean a GT3 series unless the heath one is some kind of hybrid.....
 
GW, I'll take your word for it on all counts. I just know the engineer who worked the LSR turbos did the work on these. IIRC he was/is with Garrett. What went into the "S-84" is up to speculation as I wouldn't understand it if it was explained to me, which it hasn't. Too much info for this head to wrap around anyway.
 
Paveltolz said:
GW, I'll take your word for it on all counts. I just know the engineer who worked the LSR turbos did the work on these. IIRC he was/is with Garrett. What went into the "S-84" is up to speculation as I wouldn't understand it if it was explained to me, which it hasn't. Too much info for this head to wrap around anyway.
Click to expand...

Oh, I'm just having fun guessing. I could be (and probably am) way off the mark.....
 
$1,400 is a lot for a turbo. Then again, Volvo wants $2,400 for the replacement turbo on my boat, bastards.

I assume the Heath turbo would tap into the stock vac pump wastegate actuator? And all the issues that go with that POS system?
 
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