need help - looking at a 2005 Cummins tomorrow, input required!!!!

[VW_Lupo_TD]

hey guys,

FIRST OF ALL - I CALL DIBS, no snatching this if you are local !! ;-)

need some input - what do i need to watch out for ?
talked to the owner on phone twice, seemed legit.
here is what i know, but what else do i need to know -
and what should i ask, what do you guys think of the price ?
I love the idea of a 6 speed manual, and it has no mods, so i can drop a couple of grand into mods if i need to.
(also feel free to input on necessary mods - you know me priorities: longevity, efficiency, performance and it needs to turbo whistle ):h)

thanks in advance for your replies!!

2005 Dodge Ram 3500 Cummins Diesel (THE HIGH OUTPUT CUMMINS ENGINE CONFIGURATION) Quad Cab SLT Dually 4x4 6speed Long Bed. Power Doors, Power Locks, Power Windows, Power Mirrors, Power Seat, Cruise Control, A/C, Button Shift 4x4, C/D MP3, Sliding Rear Window, tinted glass, Spray in bed liner, over the side vinyl bed liner insert, bumper towing hitch, dealer installed retractable Gooseneck ball hitch (riveted to frame under bed, ball retracts out of way when not in use), rear bumper lights for hitching, electronic brake controller for trailer brakes, helper suspension at rear (better and more expensive option on truck for towing, also smoother ride and no bounce when empty). I Bought truck a year and a half ago from the owner in Arizona, he was selling it with a burned No.5 cylinder engine code at 152,000 miles. *I had a Cummins expert rebuilt motor brand new, all new internal parts, and have 25K miles on new motor. The engine has not been chipped or any mods done whatsoever for or since rebuild. The rebuild was to completely stock engine parameters. Rust and accident free body - the silver color of truck makes it hard to take pictures to show how nice of condition the body, original paint, and clear coat is in. There no rips/ holes/ burns / stains on interior seats or carpet. Non-smoker owned truck. All new parts receipts and maintenance records kept. $17,900 o.b.o.

- has the truck ever been smoked in ?
- why are you selling it ?
- do you have the title in hand ?
- any accidents / bodywork (bondo etc.) ?
- 100% vehicle history (service, maintenance records, repair receipts etc.) comes with the car ?
- do you have paperwork on what was replaced on the engine rebuild ?
- any dents, dings, scratches or any other issues than what you described - everything works ?

(1) I never smoked in truck and it does not smell like it was smoked in
(2) I dont need it anymore (no longer using a trailer) - closed business and I need a third row seat for third child on way
(3) I have title - no loan
(4) no accidents / body work
(5) all receipts come with
(6) I have all paperwork with engine rebuild - buyer gets
(7) two tiny dings on driver door (size of nickel - not deep and barely noticeable - not paint crack or scratched). two little dings at hinges of tailgate (about size of a pencil eraser). two inch scratch on tailgate below brake light. a few very light hairline scrathces here and there on tops of fender wells. One scratch on drivers side fender about three inches liong - in clear coat not paint. scratches in paint on driver door jamb at bottom where your boots touch getting in and out. ALL of these are very minor - as the truck is in good shape - it does not look scratchedup / dented / or abused I am just listing everything I can think of. everything works.

 

[SfcJones]

seems high for a Dodge, been known to have issues with front end and brakes seem lackluster from others I have talked with

 

[Pepperidge]

would you like this in the Cummins section instead?

I know off topic is high traffic...

but...

...I'm sure Rich(cumminalong) and other dodge guys would easily see it there and tell you what you need to look for...

or you can just PM him...

 

[VW_Lupo_TD]

ok if u want to.

 

[Acesneights1]

The question is why was the Number 5 cyl burned to begin with. That has the sounds of a tuner but Cumminalong will be the one to talk to. Otherwise that is a good engine/truck. AFAIK it has the 48RE trans which is the better one an the 3rd gen Cummins is a great engine. No VP44 woes to deal with. Common rail. In fact, I just got off the phone with the guy and I am flying out in the morning to buy it....:rofl:
serioulsy other than the mystery of why a burned cyl, it's a nice looking ride. You won't be dissapointed with the power of a Cummins. It's a brute.

 

[Pepperidge]

ok if u want to.

Done.

left a redirect for this thread in off topic as well...

Will send a PM for Rich to take a look see too..

 

[VW_Lupo_TD]

thanks man ! taking half a day and leaving to check it out tomorrow afternoon.
it is about an hour away so i will not be able to see what anyone says after about 11AM.

as always last minute thing ;-)

 

[Cumminalong]

Well, first, I'd get him a little lower on the price. Not by much, but $15,800 would be more acceptable.

Now, let's get to the good stuff.

Engine..... The '05 is a good year. The ONLY thing you might want to swap on it, if you want to mod it, is the intercooler. The '05's have plastic end tanks and they are kind of a weak point. In a stock truck they're no problem, but if you crank up the boost, they're know to leak.

Don't worry about the injection pump, it's a CP3 not the VP44 (just replaced one of those yesterday).

The '05's were the last year before Dodge went to the CANBUS electronics, so if you have any wiring issues, it's a bit less expensive than the '06+ trucks.

The only issue in the engine bay is the wiring harness that runs over by the AC compressor and alternator. The way it is routed from the factory, it tends to rub through and ground out. Take a look there, it's a simple fix, just need to move the wiring a little.

As for the burned cylinder.....that has the sounds of a tuner (and didn't have gauges or just didn't friggin use them or a cracked nozzle that was leaking). Find out if it simply needed to be honed and ringed or was that cylinder bored and sleeved. If he has the receipt, it'll show it. Either way, it's not a big deal if it was done right..........Done Right being the key there.

Transmission..... Ask him if it's an early '05 or and a late '05. The early models have th NV5600 6-speed, which is FRIGGIN BULLETPROOF. Cast iron case, lots of support on the shafts, heavy input shaft......add a good clutch and you're done. Reverse is right and up on the 5600. The G56, which they started using in the mid year '05 has the reverse left and down. It's still a good trans, shifts nicer than the 5600, but has an aluminum case and above 600 - 650 HP, it's know to have shaft seperation issues. BUT, are you really gonna take it to 600+. If not, it's pretty damn bullet proof. Good clutch and you're golden.

Now, one thing you need to keep in mind if you do buy it and want to throw mods at it.....the '05 was kind of a bastard year. They swapped to the 325 HP motor in '04.5, swapped transmission in '05.5 and there are some carry over parts from the 03 - 04 models and there are some early parts from the '06+ models. Before you order any parts (mainly fuel system stuff), you need to makes sure you're getting the right ones. Wire harnesses are the biggest hassle.

Here is what I would do.....

1 - Get me the VIN so I can run it for you and get this things history.
2 - Have him get you a GOOD picture of the engine bay. If he can get close ups of both the driver and passenger sides of the engine, I'll be able to see common locations for mods.
3 - Ask him if it has the lift pump mounted on the engine or if i was retrofitted to the tank module. If it's the engine mounted pump, that's the first thing you're gonna want to replaced. Just put a Raptor on it and call it good.

I'll send ya a PM with my number. Give me a call if you have any questions when you look at it.

If you decide to buy it, we'll talk mods. Obviously, if you want to mod it, THE first thing you get is gauges. On that truck, my next purchase would be a good clutch, then a good lift pump, intake, exahust, and then we can talk power adders. I know I've said that somewhere before.......

Where do I start?

 

[Cumminalong]

seems high for a Dodge, been known to have issues with front end and brakes seem lackluster from others I have talked with

The only issue with the front end tends to be normal wear items on ANY solid axle vehicle. Ball joints and wheel bearings. The wheel bearings issues are the same as on the 4x4 Duramax's and PowerStrokes.........they have the BS initized bearing with plastic races.

As far as the brakes, the stock brakes are adequate. I actually like the stock brakes on these more than I like the stock brakes on our '04 Duramax. Those feel like sponges to me.

That's one of the common things that folks over look when they do upgrades though. Everybody wants the go faster goodies, but doesn't want to drop less than $400 on a good set of rotors and pads. For that, we can put on EBC Sport Rotors and Green or Yellow Stuff pads and that thing will damn near do a nose stand.

 

[Pepperidge]

well the motor has been modded at one point in time for sure...


from the description : (I don't know how I missed it before)

The engine has not been chipped or any mods done whatsoever for or since rebuild.

The rebuild was to completely stock engine parameters

 

[VW_Lupo_TD]

hmm - VIN sent. will call you in a few.

 

[VW_Lupo_TD]

already back home.

i do not think we should talk about this.

i am going to the pool now and do some laps. time better spent.

thanks you gentlemen and especially Rich for the info and help.
i might still use it if i find a clean example of a cummins of this vintage.
will report more later.

 

[Pepperidge]

try these

 

[Acesneights1]

already back home.

i do not think we should talk about this.

i am going to the pool now and do some laps. time better spent.

thanks you gentlemen and especially Rich for the info and help.
i might still use it if i find a clean example of a cummins of this vintage.
will report more later.

Oh come on...What happended ???
Was the truck beat like a rented mule ?
This is probably another example of what happended to me(except you did your homework first).. Any truck can be great or a POS depending on how it was treated.
Details...
It wasn't at Lee's Auto Ranch was it ?

 

[Acesneights1]

Avoid used car lots. All crooks. Branded dealer or private sale only way to buy.

 

[searstractorfan]

What was wrong with it? Ive looked at that add, im about an hour away from it too and thought about buying it also...What was ur experience with it?

 

[Pepperidge]

my guess was it was beat on and "previously smoked in"


we ought to start a site pool if he keeps it silent...we'll eventually pry it outta him...

 

[VW_Lupo_TD]

phew - where do i start ?
(especially with limited time)

ok, most will read with one eyebrow thinking i was nitpicking again,
but be reminded that i was told this truck was MINT condition and
described exactly how it looks.....

so long story short and focusing on the main points :
- "receipts" were all there, but the major one that said all 6 cylinders, pistons etc were bored and redone failed to state what oversize and what parts were used etc. and was there in 3 different versions - one said ~$8500, one ~$6500 and one was a faxed version with stuff scratched out, so it could have just been quotes or whatever.
- when asked the seller stated that on the $8500 receipt he also had a high performance clutch installed not knowing which brand or any specs and the word clutch was on none of the receipts.
- the shop that did the rebuild was not a cummins / dodge dealer but a mom and pop shop, which is 100% fine by me but the documentation hinted at the level of professionalism.
- the interior showed signs of CB Radio installation, programmer installation etc. by 4 screws in the dash and 1 hole in A pillar and 1 hole on top of dash - no big deal but NOT stated before I drove an hour there. Also there were holes cut in the center console by what looked like an 8 year old with a Dremel.
- the exterior was also worse than described. the tailgate was even bent on the passenger bottom corner, tires looked shot, wheels were rusty and wheel weights everywhere (the hammer on ones mixed with sticky ones).
- under the hood one battery had the terminals engolfed in acid fungi, a bolt to the valve cover was missing etc etc. also not big deal, but overall i would say if i command top dollar for my ride then I at least make it look presentable, since -

and here comes the best part:

- my old 6.5 suburban could have subjectively mopped the floor with that thing.
Of course a whole nother and different animal, but from the line the 1st gear was almost useless and on the on ramp on the interstate i expected a lot more punch from a vehicle that has 75% of its value in the drivetrain. the interior design and features (even if the vehicle had been in new condition and this goes also for any 2011 american made product) could be rivaled by a 1984 VW Golf. Ergonomics, technology and some charm are nowhere to be found. It is purely dominated by cheap plastic and non sense design.
How that vehicle was once sold for tens of thousand of dollars eludes me.

So as far as I could tell it drove straight, brakes worked, shifting was a bit notchy but probably just take some getting used to and everything mechanical seemed to work.

i know what you all will say - it is a damn truck. and yes that is correct.

It is a damn truck, but in my eyes it was not properly maintained. It is being driven 5 miles a day (so only cold and short distance) and no one shows it any love.

Hence i will not show any love either and say it would be worth maybe $14000 (to me) since the vehicle history is NOT verifiable (to me) unless you start calling mom and pop shops in Arizona and start asking what exactly was done to it 1.5 years ago - good luck.
If i rebuild an engine and charge in excess of $5k, i will damn well state what grade washers I used and they better be non OE but stainless ones.
and if i have work like that done to my vehicle I would demand such work ethic and documentation.

but then again - that is probably just me.

the seller (attorney) also left a lot to be wished for - only friendly on the first phone call. when asked about the price he did the whole "some guy offered me $17k yesterday and he is at the bank right now to get a loan" schpiel - to which i laughed and said what it will cost in CASH right now.
He said he would give the guy until 1500 hrs thinking i would wait around, but by that time I was already home again on my way to the pool. Of course he called after 1500hrs and said the guy did NOT return his call.

too bad.

on a side note - newark, ohio is a nice little town where time stopped around 1984. Do NOT have lunch at La Paloma on the city square.

any more questions from people interested feel free to PM me.
I was trying to be VERY political correct on this description, if you want the truth you can ask the co-pilot she will not be as friendly as me ;-)

 

[VW_Lupo_TD]

oh and yes, i think someone on a late fall morning in 2006 smoked in the passenger side rear seat a Marlboro cigarette with the window cracked ;-)

surfin here a bit now : http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3rd-gen-trucks-03-07/

 

[Acesneights1]

Lawyer...there ya go..keep lookin. Guy lies for a living..