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My G'ma's Envoy/Tranny needs help

D

DennisG01

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Location
Allentown, PA
My grandmother has a 2005 GMC envoy (I apologize, I don't know the specific automatic tranny). It has approximately 15,000 miles on it.

I borrowed it for a few days and noticed that the torque converter is acting up. Between 50mph and 70mph it is constantly "hunting" to lock-up. Sometimes it locks and unlocks over the course of 3 - 5 seconds, sometimes it does it repetitively/quickly where it shudders (feels like you're driving over rumble strips). Above 70mph, it stays locked up.

Any thoughts as to what's happening? Would something like SeaFoam be a good idea?

The tranny fluid looks and smells like new. The Check Engine light is not on.
 
Hm, I have never heard of that. Does it have the 5.3L V8 or the 4.2L I6? Either way it should have the 4L60E or -65E trans, not sure which year that changed. Sounds like the TC clutch might me goofed, or the TCM is messed up. You'd have to get a scanner on it to know for sure.
 
with only 15k miles I would lean towards an electrical issue rather than something mechanical, there's always the possibility of a mechanical problem but I'd start with electrical issues first. Tranny issues usually don't throw a check engine light. I'd talk to a tranny shop and see what they say, you need a tech 2 to check the "hidden" codes.
 
Start by cleaning the MAF sensor. The newer PCM's all figure trans function via engine load which is directly linked to the MAF sensor's reading. A TPS could also cause this, but doubtful without a code. Have it scanned and see if it is popping the all too famous 1870 as this is related to TCC bore wear and can cause poor lock-up or no lock-up like you describe. The correction is to install the TRANSGO valve that eliminates the PWM lock-up and makes it an on off style. You lose the soft lock-up, but you gain positve engagement and reduced valve body wear.
 
It's got the inline-6.

OK, so the plan of attack...

-Pick up some Electronic Cleaner and clean the MAF (I assume something like Brake Cleaner would be bad?)
-Test drive
-If problem persists, check for hidden codes.

I'll get that done over the course of the coming week and report back. If there's any other ideas, I'm all ears.

For the solenoids, I guess I was just thinking that they might be sticking from lack of use? But it sounds like that is unlikely?
 
Your grandma is just that... A grandma. Gotta love 'em but their foot's too damn light!:hihi: While you're getting the MAF cleaner get some really good injector cleaner and dump it in the tank. STP makes a pretty good one in the black bottle. Take it for a little "cleanout" ride. As we used to say at the track 'wring the piss out of it'! Once the cobwebs are out you'll have a better idea of what you have.
 
Hopefully it's not this but sounds like your symptoms:

Subject: 4L60-E Automatic Transmission/Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Shudder, Water in Transmission (Repair Transmission and Replace Transmission Filler Tube, Level Indicator and Seal)


Models: 2004-2005 Buick Rainier

2003-2005 Chevrolet TrailBlazer Models

2003-2005 GMC Envoy Models

2003-2004 Oldsmobile Bravada

2005 Saab 9-7X

with 4.2L In-Line 6 Cylinder Engine (VIN S -- RPO LL8)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Condition
Some customers may comment on a shudder condition at approximately 64-80 km/h (40-50 mph) when the TCC engages.

Cause
This condition may be caused by water in the automatic transmission fluid (ATF). Water may enter the transmission by dripping from the cowl area onto the handle of the transmission fluid level indicator.

Indications of water in the ATF may include:
• Visible rust on the transmission fluid level indicator.

• Visible water in the oil pan.

• A milky white substance inside the pan area.

• Spacer plate gaskets that appear to be glued to the spacer plate, valve body or case.

• Rust on internal transmission iron/steel components.

Important:

For vehicles suspected of having a leaking transmission oil cooler that would cause contamination of the transmission fluid with coolant, the following check should be performed before deciding to replace the radiator.
• Remove the surge tank cap and examine the coolant for signs of contamination with transmission fluid (the coolant will have a milky, not clear appearance).

• If the coolant has a normal, clear appearance, the radiator should not be replaced.

• The cooler can also be tested by following the Coolant System Leak Test procedure (SI Document ID# 877442). Do NOT replace a radiator without verifying that the transmission oil cooler is leaking.


Correction
First, repair the transmission and second, replace the transmission fill tube, seal and level indicator to prevent repeat water contamination of the ATF.

Transmission Repair
Remove the transmission. Refer to the appropriate SI procedure.
Disassemble and inspect the transmission. Refer to Unit Repair Automatic Transmission - 4L60-E/4L65-E.
Important:

If water or coolant is found in the transmission, the following components MUST be replaced.
• Replace all of the rubber type seals.

• Replace all of the composition-faced clutch plate assemblies including the band.

• Replace all of the nylon parts (Thrust Washers).

• Replace the torque converter.

• Thoroughly clean and rebuild the transmission, using new gaskets and oil filter.

• Flush and flow check the transmission oil cooler using J 45096. Refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 02-07-30-052C or newer - Automatic Transmission Oil Cooler Flush and Flow Test Essential Tool J 45096 TransFlow .


Replace the Transmission Fluid Filler Tube, Seal and Fluid Level Indicator WITH the transmission REMOVED from vehicle.
Remove the transmission fluid filler tube from the transmission.
Replace the transmission fill tube seal, P/N 1259475.
Replace the transmission fill tube, P/N 15000220, following the appropriate SI Document for Transmission Installation.
Replace the transmission fluid level indicator, P/N 15069769 when appropriate during the transmission installation.
Replace the Transmission Fluid Filler Tube, Seal and Fluid Level Indicator with the transmission in the vehicle.
Remove the air cleaner outlet duct. Refer to Air Cleaner Element Replacement (SI Document ID# 1364496).
Remove the transmission fluid level indicator from the filler tube.



Remove the filler tube nut (2) located on the right side of the engine.
Remove the filler tube from the vehicle.



Tip
It is necessary to remove the two A/C line (suction line / low side of muffler hose) retainers and reposition the A/C line to allow proper clearance for installation of the new transmission fluid fill tube.

Remove the A/C line at the oil level indicator tube bracket nut.



Remove the A/C bracket bolt from the engine lift hook.
Reposition the A/C line upward.
Install the new transmission filler tube, P/N 15000220, into position but NOT into the transmission at this time.
Raise the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle in General Information (SI Document ID# 744862).
Remove the two bolts securing the transmission heat shield to the transmission.
Remove the transmission heat shield from the transmission.
Remove the old filler tube seal from the transmission case.
Install a new seal, P/N 1259475 into the transmission case.
Position the new transmission filler tube into the transmission seal.
Install the transmission heat shield to the transmission.
Install the two bolts securing the transmission heat shield to the transmission.
Tighten
Tighten the bolts to 17 N·m (13 lb ft).

Lower the vehicle.
Install the nut securing the filler tube to the stud.
Tighten
Tighten the nut to 10 N·m (89 lb in).

Reposition the A/C line into place.
Install the A/C line bracket to the oil level indicator tube stud and secure the bracket with the nut.
Install the A/C line bracket to the engine lift bracket and secure the A/C bracket with the bolt.
Tighten

• Tighten the A/C line bracket nut to 7 N·m (62 lb in).

• Tighten the A/C bracket bolt to 10 N·m (89 lb in).

Reinstall the air cleaner outlet duct. Refer to Air Cleaner Element Replacement (SI Document ID# 1364496).
Install the new fluid level indicator, P/N 15069769.
Check the transmission fluid level. Refer to Transmission Fluid Checking Procedure (SI Document ID# 1497801).
Parts Information
Part Number
Description
Qty

15069769
Indicator, Transmission Fluid Level
1

15000220
Tube, Transmission Fluid Fill
1

1259475
Seal, Transmission Filler Tube
1


Warranty Information (excluding Saab U.S. Models)
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time

K6140
Tube and/or Seal Transmission Filler - Replace
0.5 hr


Warranty Information (Saab U.S. Models)
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

Labor Operation
Description
Failed Object
Fault/Reason Code
Location Code
Warranty Type
Repair/Action Code
Labor Time

4407101
Replace Pipe Engine Code S
44071
47
0
01
01
Use published labor operation time


Important:

• This labor time ONLY applies to vehicles repaired WITHOUT the transmission removed from the vehicle.

• NO additional labor time is required for installation of the fill tube while the transmission is removed from the vehicle for repair.
 
Mike, that's a good point!

Ben - that's very interesting. I'll have to have a better look at the fluid. One thing did strike me as odd when I checked the level - and didn't think of it till now - the fluid was actually overfull and it was the pinkest tranny fluid I have ever seen.

Was what you posted a recall?
 
DennisG01 said:
Ben - that's very interesting. I'll have to have a better look at the fluid. One thing did strike me as odd when I checked the level - and didn't think of it till now - the fluid was actually overfull and it was the pinkest tranny fluid I have ever seen.
Click to expand...
I'm thinkin' you have your answer right here Dennis.
 
I'll stop by her house on the way home today and drain some fluid out into a clear jar. I'll drive it around first so it mixes up well and I'm not just draining ATF since the water will float on top.
 
DennisG01 said:
Ben - that's very interesting. I'll have to have a better look at the fluid. One thing did strike me as odd when I checked the level - and didn't think of it till now - the fluid was actually overfull and it was the pinkest tranny fluid I have ever seen.

Was what you posted a recall?
Click to expand...

Nope, just a TSB at the moment. If yours is doing this, I'd still call GM to whine.
 
Great memory, Ben! Sure enough, it was exactly as stated above. I couldn't get a sample since there was no drain plug and I wasn't really dressed for dropping a corner of the pan. But, I drove it around a bit and then looked at the stick again. I could definitely see a slightly milky/frothy pink color. A little further up the stick there was a bit of rust.

If this is a problem that the design of the vehicle is responsible for, I can't believe it's not a recall! That's a bit unsettling. Let's see what GM says.
 
Be sure to bring a print of the TSB with you Dennis. In case they can't 'find' it at the dealer.
 
Thanks!

My initial contact with the dealer is that there will be at least "some" help on the cost. It goes in the middle of next week - we'll see what they say and go from there. I may end up calling GM, myself, as well.
 
Oh, geez! I forgot about this thread - thanks for bringing it back up!

Well, yes and no. They replaced the dipstick and flushed the fluid. The dealer covered the parts, we payed the labor. As we drove it home, we noticed it still did it. They (the dealer) said "Drive it for a while - it may work it's way out". Yeah right. It has not. We'll see what happens - it doesn't get used much, so the first thing I want to do is have either my parents or myself borrow the car for a few days. Then, if it's still doing it, I'll call GM.
 
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