Me again, new problem

[Newguy1998]

New guy again, thanks to everyone here that helped me replace my heads and gaskets. Truck runs great...

That is, until a chunk of timing chain fell out of the pan while doing a service.

So, is replacing the chain difficult to do? Can anyone walk me through it?

 

[Will L.]

"A chunk of timing chain"
Not laughing, just appreciating the experience.

So the whole front of the engine comes off. Pain in the ashtray job.

You are going to have a lot off, so I will mention all that would be nice to go back on, and best options. If you cant put that much $ into it now, what is your budget so we can recommend best to do now.

Rent a harmonic balancer puller/installer- DO NOT use the bolt to reinstall.

Buy: new front main seal I like timken, felpro,
Get time keeper timing gears from Leroy
The new chain will strech out in 30k miles.

Waterpump will be off. Good time to replace- upgrade to balanced flow if you haven't already.(even if you dont alter thermostat crossover now)

Harmonic balancer and belt drive pulley are only good for 100k miles- too long will break crankshaft. Leroy agsin for fluidampr balancer and Leroy custom billet pulley so they are good for ever like the timing gears.
If not AC Delco (or GEP) parts only here.

New serp belt when it goes together also.

Basically, I bring engine to #1 tdc. Pull battery neg cables, and pull off every accessory mounted to the front of the engine. Just lay a/c and steering pump to side without undoing hoses (some years not possible, but no clue what you have.)

Remove balancer, waterpump, timing cover.

Spend half million on parts and reassemble.

I believe in stickies is manual showing timing gear marks for installing proper and all torque specs. If not I will dig up my manual and take pics for you.

Ok everyone- what did I miss?

 

[1994ch]

Well Will got one side of the picture......it is a pain stripping the front of the engine down...... but as far as complicated its not too bad a job, I did mine when I was sixteen and did not know what the camshaft was that the timing chain was timing...............I just lined up the marks and put it back together. Then I learned what the camshaft was/did, so before I tried starting it I pulled it all apart again to make sure I had timed it right. (I had, but better safe than sorry)

Do set the engine to #1 top dead center first and don't turn anything while the chain is off.

 

[WarWagon]

Lets see a pic of the chain chunk. I wouldn't turn the engine at all!!! It's from the past, a partial failure, or you just got lucky. A completely broken chain will attempt to bend up the valves and rods if you rotate the engine. The damage may already be done.

You can rotate the engine to set the timing marks when you are looking at the timing set to see what's going on.

Do get the timing gears as the chains are so life limited till they are sloppy.

 

[Will L.]

Yeah thats a good point anout possible damage!

 

[Newguy1998]

"A chunk of timing chain"
Not laughing, just appreciating the experience.

So the whole front of the engine comes off. Pain in the ashtray job.

You are going to have a lot off, so I will mention all that would be nice to go back on, and best options. If you cant put that much $ into it now, what is your budget so we can recommend best to do now.

Rent a harmonic balancer puller/installer- DO NOT use the bolt to reinstall.

Buy: new front main seal I like timken, felpro,
Get time keeper timing gears from Leroy
The new chain will strech out in 30k miles.

Waterpump will be off. Good time to replace- upgrade to balanced flow if you haven't already.(even if you dont alter thermostat crossover now)

Harmonic balancer and belt drive pulley are only good for 100k miles- too long will break crankshaft. Leroy agsin for fluidampr balancer and Leroy custom billet pulley so they are good for ever like the timing gears.
If not AC Delco (or GEP) parts only here.

New serp belt when it goes together also.

Basically, I bring engine to #1 tdc. Pull battery neg cables, and pull off every accessory mounted to the front of the engine. Just lay a/c and steering pump to side without undoing hoses (some years not possible, but no clue what you have.)

Remove balancer, waterpump, timing cover.

Spend half million on parts and reassemble.

I believe in stickies is manual showing timing gear marks for installing proper and all torque specs. If not I will dig up my manual and take pics for you.

Ok everyone- what did I miss?

Most of my front accessories are all ready new, when I did head gaskets. I won't be using gaskets, still have a 1/2 tube of "the right stuff"

Well Will got one side of the picture......it is a pain stripping the front of the engine down...... but as far as complicated its not too bad a job, I did mine when I was sixteen and did not know what the camshaft was that the timing chain was timing...............I just lined up the marks and put it back together. Then I learned what the camshaft was/did, so before I tried starting it I pulled it all apart again to make sure I had timed it right. (I had, but better safe than sorry)

Do set the engine to #1 top dead center first and don't turn anything while the chain is off.

What's the point of finding #1 TDC? So all the timing marks line up? Easier to put back on?

Lets see a pic of the chain chunk. I wouldn't turn the engine at all!!! It's from the past, a partial failure, or you just got lucky. A completely broken chain will attempt to bend up the valves and rods if you rotate the engine. The damage may already be done.

You can rotate the engine to set the timing marks when you are looking at the timing set to see what's going on.

Do get the timing gears as the chains are so life limited till they are sloppy.

My flex plate is locked with vise grips, won't be going anywhere for a while. What about the ip? Do I just mark both its and the cam gear?

 

[Newguy1998]

I just looked in Leroys site, a gear set will cost roughly $650-$700 by the time I get it. Maybe someday, but not possible now.

 

[Will L.]

You will have to put the engine on #1 tdc to time it, yes. But like WW pointed out, a good idea to disassemble as is, then move components by hand once apart to ensure no added damage.

I get the not enough $ for desired parts. Sometimes people get away with only a chain, but since you have known damage- replace gears and chain... cloyes used to be the go to brand- not sure who makes the best ones currently.

On the balancer and pulley- how many miles on the current set?

What about your water pump- what style?

Front main seal is like $10- a definite do while your there.

Once you pull apart all the gears, you will be able to turn the ip gear by hand to time it as everything goes back together.

Getting it all apart and making sure there is no secondary damage, and that all pieces are acounted for is the crucial part at the moment.

Good move on the right stuff- that's the best there is.

 

[Newguy1998]

You will have to put the engine on #1 tdc to time it, yes. But like WW pointed out, a good idea to disassemble as is, then move components by hand once apart to ensure no added damage.

I get the not enough $ for desired parts. Sometimes people get away with only a chain, but since you have known damage- replace gears and chain... cloyes used to be the go to brand- not sure who makes the best ones currently.
I'm going with an ACdelco for now
On the balancer and pulley- how many miles on the current set?
Approx 3000 miles

What about your water pump- what style?
HO non-balanced flow (approx 105,000 miles ) with a 5/8" BRF
Front main seal is like $10- a definite do while your there.
Just did it a few months ago

Once you pull apart all the gears, you will be able to turn the ip gear by hand to time it as everything goes back together.

Getting it all apart and making sure there is no secondary damage, and that all pieces are acounted for is the crucial part at the moment.

Good move on the right stuff- that's the best there is.

I still don't really understand the concept of the timing. I'm assuming you guys are going with: the old chain is broken/stretched so let's put on the new one and start from scratch? Reason I ask is because I'm sure I could remove everything and put it back together with the new chain and the timing will remain the same (assuming it's good)

I reiterate, I'm new at this, going to need complete step by step instructions. Talk to me like I'm 4 years old. I've never used a timing tab before.

 

[Newguy1998]

Engine is an early #506, with 105,000 original miles, 5521 ip, feed the beast, 5/8" brf, new bosch injectors, 60 g's. And obviously new head gaskets. No blow by or oil burning

I just replace the front crank seal a few months ago. The Vac pump is less than a few months old. I'm assuming it has the original water pump so the mileage will match the engine.

 

[Newguy1998]

Okay, here's where I'm at.

I have everything stripped down to the front engine cover. Next would be to remove the crank balancer and pulley. Then remove the injection pump bolts. Next Step would be remove the front engine cover. I'm going to try and find top dead center before I remove the crank balancer. I'm going to need some help with this.

 

[Will L.]

Do not remove the injector pump. Leave it there.

Wait a bit and I will go take pics from my manual for you.

 

[Will L.]

 

[Will L.]

Oops, wrong order. Here are a couple other pics that might help.

 

[Will L.]

Pull it apart like you did to replace the front main seal.
Then water pump with its adapter plate comes off. Then you'll see the gears and timing cover that comes off. The IP gear will come off of course, so you can leave the IP hanging on it injector lines. The three nuts do you have to come off so the timing cover can come away from it.

 

[Will L.]

Check your messages.

 

[Newguy1998]

Thanks, I'll have to wait till after work to open and download what's in my messages...

 

[Newguy1998]

Ok, went home early and downloaded...

I'm starting to think I'm just waaay overthinking this.

I'll tell you what I think I need to do, you tell me if I'm wrong...

Find tdc

Pull everything apart

Inspect parts & replace if necessary

Install keyway and crank gear with mark at 12 o'clock (I'm assuming it will be at 12 o'clock while being at tdc, correct me if I am wrong) with chain & cam gear & keyway, install with Mark at 6 o'clock inline with crank center.

Install ip driving gear

Install timing cover

Turn crank so cam mark is at 12 o'clock

Install ip driven gear with Mark at 6 o'clock

Put everything back together...

Seems to easy, what am I missing?

 

[Husker6.5]

Beer.

 

[WarWagon]

DO NOT ROTATE THE ENGINE!!! You may be lucky. Your timing set may be broken or hanging on by a thread. You need to know before rotating the engine.

When you are looking at (you have torn the engine down to) the timing set aka the suspect chain you can decide what needs to be done. You either lost one part of the double roller chain and it's still hanging on or you have a completely busted chain where rotating the interference engine is just going to bend valves. If the chain is completely broken you may as well pull the heads or engine as some of the valves/pushrods are going to be bent. You may be lucky and had the chain snap on shutdown and didn't bend anything. This is why rotating the engine is a BAD idea: don't do more damage. (Valves are expensive per each.) If you do rotate the engine rotate it in it's normal rotation NOT BACKWARDS! Any loose parts can do damage going the other way or decide to snap from a different tug.

When you can tell what is going on then and only then can you spin the engine over to TDC making sure the cam is rotating with the crank. (A key could have sheared off as well.)

As an aside this broken chain may be from the past with a lazy mechanic leaving FOD in the oil pan. Replace the chain anyway because you are there and it stretched out. You can inspect the chain completely with just the water pump removed. Then and only then continue teardown if required. You may only need to remove derbis from the oil pan from a past repair.

Timing is easy : line up the marks with each other on the sprockets. Then line up the marks on the IP gears.