lift pump question - yes, again!

[Matt Bachand]

Kennedy states it does not self PRime.. no big deal, I was remembering that as non flow on fail. A priming Racor unit before this pump would compliment it nicely.

I would really like to hear feedback from someone who runs these with a gauge before IP to see what type of pressure it can maintain after pulling through a pre-filter and pushing through the flt-mgr.

How does the regulator work?

I would think its safe if kennedy offers it as an option for the 6.5.

 

[Pepperidge]

But I'm not sure if Kennedy markets it for the 6.5...I've never checked on that...

 

[Matt Bachand]

But I'm not sure if Kennedy markets it for the 6.5...I've never checked on that...

Yes he does. That is why VW Lugo started the thread with it. I was just on his website.

 

[Acesneights1]

If the pump stops Paul, will the fuel stop, walbro & OEM pump will allow the 6.5 IP to pull it's own fuel if the lift pump quits so we call that a "flow on fail" pump, many a Cummins IP has died because it's lift is not flow on fail, gear elements in it block flow and truck stops, & IP dies,

Stock cummins LP is flow on fail , That is the problem. Many cummins owners drive the truck unknowing the LP is dead but the strain on the VP44 is too much because the earlier ones had sorry parts in them. That info was from Dieselpro. Mine ran on a stock dead LP and then IP death.

 

[iamdave0887]

Count me into the LP death club after tonight. Seems not even the Airtex 93 HO pump will last. Mine's less than a year old and putting out a whopping 4 psi at idle. New it put out about 8-9 psi at idle. Junk... issed:

I'm watching this thread with great interest, as i'm looking for options other than the stock style LP.

 

[VW_Lupo_TD]

Grab a 1993 HO LP, Lift Pump (Higher PSI) OEM - 25115224.
I have one which is able to sustain 2 PSI at WOT.
Plug and play

I believe that as long you get pressure at WOT, that means it's enough.
It shows about 10~12 PSI during wait to start cycle, and about 7~5 PSI while cruising.

My 2nd choice will be Walbro FRB-5. I mean 2nd because of few plumbing to do, not plug and play.
So, if I had time to fab brackets and all, it would be 1st.
Veg out sells a connectors kit for these.
According to Matt, there's a new designed one coming soon, the FRB-28

thanks for verifying numbers !
veg out ? please link.

Burning oil has a line kit that makes the Walbro or Airdog plug and play with the factory fuel lines. For some reason I thought he also sold the Walbro pumps but don't see them on his web site.

http://www.pmdcable.com/LIFT_PUMP_BYPASS_KIT.html

These fittings are very special fittings we have made specificaly for the 6.5 diesel trucks and vans. They are unique because they are a metric thread and made to seal with a rubber "o"ring. You do not cut your original fuel lines with this kit. The fittings exactly match the female ends of your original lift pump. With this kit you can eliminate the "failure prone" original lift pump all together and install a aftermarket lift pump and filter of your choice.

so that already gives you the ease and peace of mind not hacking into fuel lines ..... hm.

 

[VW_Lupo_TD]

I kinda keep quiet about this now cause of all controversy I stirred last time around but since you asked what the BEST availible is I'll post.
The Airdog or it's non filtered Cousin the Raptor is probably the best availible if you want to spend the bux. It also solves the OPS problem by incorporating a separate realy to send Batt power directly to the LP (sort of like Kennedys harness) and takes the strain off the OPS. The Raptor/Airdog is lifetime warrantied and I can speak from personal experience of thier excellent customer service. A few vendors here sell them. I believe Rich from Dog House can get them as well as Upstate Diesel.
FWIW I have a RAptor on my Dodge. The PSI is fully user adjustable to whatever your needs are and believe me nothing out there has the flow like these do. I ended up with an extra one thanks to scumbag Lee's Auto Ranch in Ellington CT so I plan on using it for my CUCV when I toss the Mech junk one. It's way overkill but I have it so why not use it.
They make a kit specifcally for the 6.5 with all wiring etc included.
Also they are flow on fail and lifetime warrantied(as long as you fill out the card, don't forget)
Some will say 400$ is too much for a LP but when you figure in the relay harness is included and Kennedy get 150$ + shipping for that IIRC plus another 100$+ shipping for a standard LP your already up to 250$ and you've bought how many already ?
It's kinda Like Heaths PMD setup. You could get one 200$ cheaper but when it burns up, no warranty...

holy cow !!!!
looking that up now, that looks like a hardcore setup dude.
I can throw the entire fuel filter manager away with that.
can i ?
that would be sweet.
I might have to get a lift kit for this though ;-)

ALSO (OT) when in god's name will someone finally organize a DTR meet & greet at Lee's Auto Ranch - I would love to be part of that convoy when we roll up with about 70 trucks ):h everytime you mention them it cracks me up!!!

 

[ak diesel driver]

All it needs is a fuel heater

 

[matuva]

thanks for verifying numbers !
veg out ? please link.




http://www.pmdcable.com/LIFT_PUMP_BYPASS_KIT.html

These fittings are very special fittings we have made specificaly for the 6.5 diesel trucks and vans. They are unique because they are a metric thread and made to seal with a rubber "o"ring. You do not cut your original fuel lines with this kit. The fittings exactly match the female ends of your original lift pump. With this kit you can eliminate the "failure prone" original lift pump all together and install a aftermarket lift pump and filter of your choice.

so that already gives you the ease and peace of mind not hacking into fuel lines ..... hm.

Damn, my bad!
Sorry about confusion. Veg_out sells feed the beast fitting kit, Leroy sells the LP fitting kit.
Sorry about confusion....

 

[Acesneights1]

holy cow !!!!
looking that up now, that looks like a hardcore setup dude.
I can throw the entire fuel filter manager away with that.
can i ?
that would be sweet.
I might have to get a lift kit for this though ;-)

ALSO (OT) when in god's name will someone finally organize a DTR meet & greet at Lee's Auto Ranch - I would love to be part of that convoy when we roll up with about 70 trucks ):h everytime you mention them it cracks me up!!!

Stuff posted on forums shows up in google etc search engines so I try to mention them negatively as much as possible so no one else gets burned. You could keep the fuel manager in conj with an Airdog. BTW The Raptor is the same LP without the filtration system and cheaper.
Dave did your LP die after you left last night ? That would be seriuosly ironic considering you were holding my spare Raptor Lift Pump in your hand coveting it...

 

[guybb3]

Its not the OPS, he cant even get it powered by putting power directly to the line going to the LP. Like the test port in 96+ on the fuse/relay center. In 94 we just push the fuse against a battey junction post.

If the tank sock is plugged solid, the pump won't even click once. This happened to me before and made me think (for a couple of minutes) my Walbro was bad.

I think another reason for all these failures is dirty fuel going through the lift pump. I noticed buddy has a filter before his lift pump, as do I. I pounded on my Walbro with all the tank sock/stalling issues I had for the last 2 years before I changed my tank and sock and the Walbro is still going strong.

 

[iamdave0887]

Stuff posted on forums shows up in google etc search engines so I try to mention them negatively as much as possible so no one else gets burned. You could keep the fuel manager in conj with an Airdog. BTW The Raptor is the same LP without the filtration system and cheaper.
Dave did your LP die after you left last night ? That would be seriuosly ironic considering you were holding my spare Raptor Lift Pump in your hand coveting it...

Yea about that..... On the way back to Bill's place i got a SES on the highway. Had my code reader in the truck so i read the codes and had P0251 and P0370. The last time i got those codes, my LP was dead and was putting out less than 3 psi at idle. After getting back to Bill's place i found my fuel psi gauge in the toolbox and i'm getting a whopping 4 psi at idle. When i put that pump in less than a year ago i had 9 psi at idle. It's a 93 Airtex HO LP as well. I cleared the codes and drove home without incident, but i didn't hammer it either.

Still don't' wanna sell that raptor? ):h

I've got 2 spare 6.5 LPs but they are both on the weak side, so i'll be saving those for the blazer as they only put out about 4-5 psi. Why does everything have to break when money's tight? Damn you Murphy and your stupid law! issed:

Edit: well on a good note, it seems that my LP is still under the one year warranty by a few days. I bought it 11-25-08. Just made it by a few days. The Walbro FRB 5 will be the next pump i put out if this new E3158 fails out of warranty.

 

[Acesneights1]

Nope, don't wanna sell that puppy. Pureflow sold it to me outright for 250$ since it was meant as a replacement for the susposedly dead one that scumbag Lee's Auto Ranch in ellington ctD) diagnosed. I would have had to pay 100$ to return it so instead they sold it to me for 250$

 

[Cumminalong]

Guys,

If you are considering the AirDog, here are a few parts numbers for ya.

http://www.pureflowairdog.com/airdog.html

The AirDog 100 (100 GPH), rated at 7-8 psi is part number A1SPBC084
The AirDog 150 (150 GPH), rated at 7-8 psi is part number A1SPBC087

They contain the pump, water seperator, filter (2, 3 or 10 micron), bracketry, harness, etc.

If you don't want the filtration option with the pump, then all you need is the Raptor.

http://www.pureflowairdog.com/raptor.html

The Raptor's, with the same characteristics as the AirDog's above are as follows, except they do not have the filter or water seperator.

Raptor 100, preset to 8 psi is part number R1SBC132
Raptor 150, preset to 8 psi is part number R1SBC135

Both of the Raptor pumps have adjustable regulators so you can raise or lower the delivery pressure as needed.

Both the AirDog and Raptor have a lifetime warranty on them.

I do have them available if you want to go that route.

Just so it doesn't seen like I may be talking out of my backside on how well these perform, here's what's on my own personal truck. This is the FASS 150. It's a slightly heavier duty version that was originally intended for OTR trucks. It has a life expectancy of 13,000 - 15,000 engine hours. This is the pump that feed my dual CP3's, 160 HP injectors, 230 HP worth of tuning and fuels the truck to 742 HP and never drops below 13 psi at WOT. At idle I'm at 17 psi.

http://www.youtube.com/user/cumminalong#p/u/29/__ExJM_LnrQ

And yes, they will certaily deliver the fuel. Here is one of my truck on the dyno. No shortage of fuel here.

http://www.youtube.com/user/cumminalong#p/u/17/Vncus2lx7j4

 

[iamdave0887]

Nope, don't wanna sell that puppy. Pureflow sold it to me outright for 250$ since it was meant as a replacement for the susposedly dead one that scumbag Lee's Auto Ranch in ellington ctD) diagnosed. I would have had to pay 100$ to return it so instead they sold it to me for 250$

That's a steal considering what i saw them listed for online. I can't blame you.

I do like the adjustable pressure that i noticed on the side of the pump. That LP's very nice.

I have to go pickup my warranty replacement LP in a bit.

 

[Turbine Doc]

Stock cummins LP is flow on fail , That is the problem. Many cummins owners drive the truck unknowing the LP is dead but the strain on the VP44 is too much because the earlier ones had sorry parts in them. That info was from Dieselpro. Mine ran on a stock dead LP and then IP death.

Only if the vanes stop in correct position, a vane over the inlet or outlet port will stop or restrict flow; I have a Cummins lift DP gave me on one of my visits to PFI traveling thru Pensacola headed to/from Jax Fl & Waycross Ga.

Eric at Hoesli Diesel in Evansville IN is one who turned me on to the Walbro at 1st, said they tried it on the Cummins with marginal results but would be a good fit for our 6.5.

As far as the Kennedy no prime, yes if you had a priming Racor that would take care of that, most folks don't have that option, plus I think a self priming pump survives a "snotty sock" better than a no prime pump would. I've got no axe to grind with the Kennedy rig, but for me there are better for the 6.5 IMO.

Once a IP goes airbound, it won't pull fuel, so that is why flow on fail and self prime in my book for the 6.5 is a necessity.

 

[Matt Bachand]

Airdog's the real deal... supposedly removes air molecules to for a denser spray too.

I'd still leave the flt mgr. That way you have the heater should you need it. Your filter changes would probably drop to every few years or more.

Its a complete kit, and the price isn't all that bad for what you get.

For someone like you who owns the rig forever, and obviously gonna keep it forever, If you have the means, I'd get it.

You should also get yourself hooked up with in in cab pressure gauge too. Once you have LP problems, in cab gauge is your best friend. Makes you feel so much more confident in your rig.

 

[Matt Bachand]

Only if the vanes stop in correct position, a vane over the inlet or outlet port will stop or restrict flow; I have a Cummins lift DP gave me on one of my visits to PFI traveling thru Pensacola headed to/from Jax Fl & Waycross Ga.

Eric at Hoesli Diesel in Evansville IN is one who turned me on to the Walbro at 1st, said they tried it on the Cummins with marginal results but would be a good fit for our 6.5.

As far as the Kennedy no prime, yes if you had a priming Racor that would take care of that, most folks don't have that option, plus I think a self priming pump survives a "snotty sock" better than a no prime pump would. I've got no axe to grind with the Kennedy rig, but for me there are better for the 6.5 IMO.

Once a IP goes airbound, it won't pull fuel, so that is why flow on fail and self prime in my book for the 6.5 is a necessity.

I agree TD. If you are running out of fuel and get a hiccup, LP would be useless without self prime. Or any other air problem it would leave you stranded, instead of just rough running.

 

[Matt Bachand]

Guys,

If you are considering the AirDog, here are a few parts numbers for ya.

http://www.pureflowairdog.com/airdog.html

The AirDog 100 (100 GPH), rated at 7-8 psi is part number A1SPBC084
The AirDog 150 (150 GPH), rated at 7-8 psi is part number A1SPBC087

They contain the pump, water seperator, filter (2, 3 or 10 micron), bracketry, harness, etc.

If you don't want the filtration option with the pump, then all you need is the Raptor.

http://www.pureflowairdog.com/raptor.html

The Raptor's, with the same characteristics as the AirDog's above are as follows, except they do not have the filter or water seperator.

Raptor 100, preset to 8 psi is part number R1SBC132
Raptor 150, preset to 8 psi is part number R1SBC135

Both of the Raptor pumps have adjustable regulators so you can raise or lower the delivery pressure as needed.

Both the AirDog and Raptor have a lifetime warranty on them.

I do have them available if you want to go that route.

Just so it doesn't seen like I may be talking out of my backside on how well these perform, here's what's on my own personal truck. This is the FASS 150. It's a slightly heavier duty version that was originally intended for OTR trucks. It has a life expectancy of 13,000 - 15,000 engine hours. This is the pump that feed my dual CP3's, 160 HP injectors, 230 HP worth of tuning and fuels the truck to 742 HP and never drops below 13 psi at WOT. At idle I'm at 17 psi.

http://www.youtube.com/user/cumminalong#p/u/29/__ExJM_LnrQ

And yes, they will certaily deliver the fuel. Here is one of my truck on the dyno. No shortage of fuel here.

http://www.youtube.com/user/cumminalong#p/u/17/Vncus2lx7j4

You sell these with adjustable regulators?

Do you need to go into tank with them, or could I hook one up to my 3/8ths Racor outlet (I assume I could).

What is the power requirement?

 

[Acesneights1]

They all have adjustable regulators. Also They get power driectly from the Battery and are activated via a Sol that is activated by the OPS so the power draw of the LP is at the batt not the OPS. Yes you can hook it to a 3/8 brb. I did on my Dodge. Just get the 100 not the 150. 150 is way more fuel than a 6.5 could ever use, even that mythical 425hp one....