Keeping an NV4500 cool: aftermarket filtering and coolers

[GM Guy]

Hey all,

after an amsoil oil change on the 93 NV4500, I am experiencing what 88GMCtruck did: scratchy shifting. I am thinking the older NV4500s with the low gearing and old style top cover may really require the GM fluid only.

So anyways, yet another expensive oil change is on the horizon, and after the last trip across wyoming, she was running pretty warm, engine AND transmission, heat radiated off of it, and it smelled of hot gear oil. when I changed the t-case input seal, it was pretty obvious that it had gotten cooked by hot oil, it was cracked, and hard and brittle.

So, I need to start from scratch with fresh oil, and figured the way I tow, I need to add fluid capacity and cooling ability, so I think its time for a deep sump PTO cover.

here are the options:

http://www.genosgarage.com/FAST-COOLER-KIT-5-SPEED-AND-6-SPEED/productinfo/FC-6-SPD-DG/#.U_GOfWMfLKc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301250967472?item=301250967472&viewitem=&vxp=mtr

this outfit with no ability to sell online. their cover was featured on a CUCV NV4500 swap in 4 wheel and off road magazine, and the cover can be seen in many pics at this page: http://geartechhd.com/4x4- I have shot them an e-mail and am awaiting pricing.

What is everyones opinion on how many covers to run? would 1 be sufficient, or does a guy need to run two? does any of them look better than the others?

does anyone think a filter is necessary?

http://www.quad4x4.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=1000


as far as fluid, I found stuff in a GM bottle for under 20 bucks with free shipping on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12346190-FL...Parts_Accessories&hash=item338d37ca50&vxp=mtr


or, does this stuff look reputable?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Manual-Tran...Parts_Accessories&hash=item43c0e1782a&vxp=mtr

any input appreciated, thanks!

 

[Will L.]

Looks like the same thing to me. $26 difference, just make sure the 1st one comes with the longer bolts. The added 2 quarts wont help much, as the fluid will take a tiny bit longer to get hot but then takes the same amount of time to cool off. Heat sinks cant be a bad thing, that's for sure.

Other option is a circulation pump and an oil cooler - see Leroy maybe he can do a manual version while he's at it!

I can't imagine the need for a filter on that trans. Running the fluid through a filter causes restriction and that generates heat. How much is up to the engineers to determine.

I would say go back to the original oil, it's proven. Add the twin heat sink kit and give it a whirl. The only thing I didn't notice is claims of temperature drop from the mfr.?.

 

[WarWagon]

If I would have known these existed I would have gotten them rather than the fastcooler: (They have more air to metal and better airflow via the fins than the machined blocks.)
http://www.genosgarage.com/TRANS-CO...S-94-05/productinfo/TRANSCOOL_3/#.U_Vb5GOkzzB

I would not put unreliable and heat failure prone hoses on a MT. Just too much trouble with engine oil cooler lines specifically 6.5 cooler lines.

You are getting how many miles out of the transmissions without a filter now? Sure they can help, but, is it worth it?

I use a different oil for the NV5600, but, AMSOIL I noticed an immediate change in shifting. Cold it blows by the syncro's and is notchy. Appears NV5600 are fussy as to oil with some liking other oils better. I also run more oil specific to this trans over it's rear bearing oiling issues. No other reason and some reasons against overfilling.

 

[Will L.]

When it comes to oil hoses, If I have to make it, I get hydraulic lines made (the type on heavy equipment). Expensive as heck, but good for decades.

 

[schiker]

I would guess the spacer style cools more than the smaller cover style.

You can also use the Mopar no. 04874459 fluid best price I saw was ~$18.xx / quart but didn't look at shipping.

Transmission shop suggested I change my fluid after 15K miles to flush out the initial synchro wear after rebuild then every 50K miles iirc. I'd rather change it than filter for the manual transmission.

I will probably go with GM or Mopar fluid next time.

 

[DieselCash]

I went the cheaper route and got the pennsoil in a yellow bottle from O'Reilly's auto parts. I did not have a temp gauge before the fluid swap. After I did the temp gauge add and the cheaper fluid I have over heat issues while towing. I am curious if it is caused by the cross over pipe and not the trans getting hot on its own. I already have 4 quarts of the good fluid from GM sitting in my shop. My trans acted up over a year ago but, seems to be running good now. Time will tell.

I like all these different heat sinks. I like this one the best. Just the price is high!

http://www.genosgarage.com/TRANS-CO...S-94-05/productinfo/TRANSCOOL_3/#.U_Vb5GOkzzB

As little as I tow I will get it fixed one of these years. Maybe one day.

 

[schiker]

Uhhh, now thinking he might have said 60K miles on drain and fill. Anyway it was sooner than OEM suggestion of I think 100K ????

Marty I am pretty sure Pennzoil does not make a fluid for the NV4500. Its my understanding the Pennzoil Synchromesh found in most box stores is for the NV3500.

At least the numbers don't match for the NV4500 if you did run Pennzoil syncrhomesh.

Synchromesh is ......•Suitable for use in Chrysler transaxles and transmissions requiring Part No. 4874464. The NV4500 takes Mopar number 04874459.

 

[GM Guy]

as far as the filter suggestion, follow my link (the only one to quad4x4.com in the first thread) it is basically some little anemic splash filter, no need for a pump and some plumbing.

So the cover Warwagon posted is probably the best at dumping heat and is preferred over the spacer style units?

I need to install a guage and see what I am running for temps, but my theory is this is no 30K GCW turned up 12 valve cummins, so any little boost in fluid capacity and cooling surface area would help, correct? that is why I am leaning towards the cheaper options.

on a side note, I need to get some pics, a buddy has a 97 ECLB 3500 Dodge cummins with the NV4500, and he put an elaborate pump system on (magnetic coup-ling, so no shaft seal to fail), and utilized a factory automatic transmission cooler and plumbed it all up, and he can keep it cool with a heavy load.

 

[DieselCash]

Uhhh, now thinking he might have said 60K miles on drain and fill. Anyway it was sooner than OEM suggestion of I think 100K ????

Marty I am pretty sure Pennzoil does not make a fluid for the NV4500. Its my understanding the Pennzoil Synchromesh found in most box stores is for the NV3500.

At least the numbers don't match for the NV4500 if you did run Pennzoil syncrhomesh.

Synchromesh is ......•Suitable for use in Chrysler transaxles and transmissions requiring Part No. 4874464. The NV4500 takes Mopar number 04874459.

This is what I used;
http://www.pennzoil.com/other-car-p...luids-and-gear-oil/manual-transmission-fluid/

 

[schiker]

Yeah, I am pretty sure that is for NV3500 which has Yellow metal synchros.

According to benefits page the GM numbers don't match the number for NV4500 fluid.

•Suitable for use in GM manual transaxles and transmissions requiring GM Part No. 12345349 or 12345577 I am not sure is equal to

GM 12346190 fluid which is Castrol Syntorq is my understanding.

Others have run good quality synthetic with no ill effects but for smoothest shifting and longevity of the synchros most say the Castrol stuff is best.

 

[GM Guy]

yeah, it is to my understanding that is the synchromesh for NV3500s. I am surprised it is still shifting OK. I would get rid of it ASAP if I was you.

 

[GM Guy]

So, I am back from my trip (another whirlwind adventure exceeding 1000 miles in the noble 1600 dollar pickup. ) and am ready to get rolling on this one.

Did we figure that the fancy cooler Warwagon posted is necessary for a NV4500 behind a 6.5L that will likely never exceed 20,000 lbs combo, or is it really meant for the hot shotters up near 30K with a turned up Cummins?

If we figured that a cheaper route can be taken, which spacer style would be best? Can i split the pair between two rigs, or do I need to run the pair on one transmission? I sent another e-mail to Geartech HD on their cooler.

Is the little splash filter a good idea? THe thing I like is that it wouldnt have any restriction, it is just whatever splashes around...


Any input appreciated, thanks!

 

[GM Guy]

OK, update time:

Got in contact with Gear Tech HD. he wants 65 bucks a cover, plus 10 dollars shipping, so for 140 bucks total, I have two on the way. Kinda old school, I am mailing him a check, no paypal or anything.


As far as the oil, I also found this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Manual-Tran...Parts_Accessories&hash=item540f5b77d8&vxp=mtr

or the bigger jug: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Manual-Tran...Parts_Accessories&hash=item43c0e1782a&vxp=mtr

I messaged them about what the fluid is, and here is our conversation: Dear robertborneman,

yes it is

- mantrans


From: robertborneman
To: mantrans
Subject: Re: Details about item: robertborneman sent a message about Manual Transmission Fluid for New Venture 5 speed Chevrolet or GMC NV4500 #361034905560
Sent Date: Sep-19-14 09:13:41 PDT

Dear mantrans,

so this is Genuine Castrol Syntorq LT fluid, correct?

- robertborneman



From: mantrans
To: robertborneman
Subject: Re: Details about item: robertborneman sent a message about Manual Transmission Fluid for New Venture 5 speed Chevrolet or GMC NV4500 #361034905560
Sent Date: Sep-19-14 06:32:12 PDT

Dear robertborneman,

We purchased in surplus drums and have repackaged it - yes.

- mantrans



From: robertborneman
To: mantrans
Subject: Details about item: robertborneman sent a message about Manual Transmission Fluid for New Venture 5 speed Chevrolet or GMC NV4500 #361034905560
Sent Date: Sep-18-14 20:15:57 PDT

Dear mantrans,

I was wondering if this is simply a re-packaging service for the Castrol Syntorq LT?

From what I hear, the Castrol Syntorq LT, the proper NV4500 oil sold under the GM 12346190, is only available in bulk quantities, the smallest being a 15 or 30 gallon drum.

I take it you guys buy the big drum of Castrol Syntorq LT, then re-package it?

If not, what brand of oil is this?

Thank you!


It sounds legit to me, (although I would prefer they say, Yes, it is genuine Castrol Syntorq LT, rather than : Yes, it is, but that is just me. I dont think they are lying or otherwise un-sincere)

What say you guys?

 

[GM Guy]

I still might order a pair of spacer covers from Geno's, and the set off ebay for comparison sake, and of course with so many NV4500s around here, there will be no issue finding homes for them.

 

[DieselCash]

That is the cheapest route I have seen do far for $140 with shipping. His website sucks and is very vague.

Please add pics when you get them. I am curious how well they will work.

Does his add any fluid capacity?

What kind of warranty does he offer?

 

[GM Guy]

IDK the warranty (do the others offer one either? IDK) but he says they "add 1 quart or more" so hopefully at the minimum, 1 quart extra.

You can tell computers are not his strong suit, but hopefully his fab skills are so I am hoping that translates in to aluminum awesomeness.

The only reason I remember these is from an article in 4 wheel and off road about a NV4500 swap into a CUCV, and they put them on.

Dieselcash, I think you need a jug of that oil to get the synchromesh crap out. Maybe a cover at the same time?

 

[DieselCash]

IDK the warranty (do the others offer one either? IDK) but he says they "add 1 quart or more" so hopefully at the minimum, 1 quart extra.

You can tell computers are not his strong suit, but hopefully his fab skills are so I am hoping that translates in to aluminum awesomeness.

The only reason I remember these is from an article in 4 wheel and off road about a NV4500 swap into a CUCV, and they put them on.

Dieselcash, I think you need a jug of that oil to get the synchromesh crap out. Maybe a cover at the same time?

I have 4 quarts of GM fluid on the shelf. I just need to get a cooler. Soon, very soon. My trans sits way too hot when going down the freeway.

 

[GM Guy]

I see in your sig you have guages on everything. how hot does the trans run currently?

how big of drop did you see with the mag-hytec on the rear? did you also switch to synthetic? I am definitely in need of a mag-hytec diff cover.

 

[DieselCash]

I see in your sig you have guages on everything. how hot does the trans run currently?

how big of drop did you see with the mag-hytec on the rear? did you also switch to synthetic? I am definitely in need of a mag-hytec diff cover.

It runs 210 not towing. 250+ towing.

I did not have a gauge on the rear till after the mag-hytec went on. It sits between 140 - 170 with it.

I have seen it get hotter towing but, my exhaust points at the rear end.

 

[GM Guy]

OK, update time.

I bought the proper oil, per the confirmation back on page 1 from the seller.

This is supposed to be the proper Castrol Syntorq LT in a 2.5 gallon jug. also sold in 1 gallon quantities

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Manual-Tran...Parts_Accessories&hash=item43c0e1782a&vxp=mtr

I bought a pair of covers from Gear Tech HD, and the pair off ebay. the pair off Ebay are simply Fast Coolers, just like what Geno's sells, so I didnt bother buying a set from Geno's.



I e-mailed Gear Tech where they are made, and he makes them himself, so they are definitely made in USA.

I have not called Fast Coolers specifically, but I asked on Geno's Facebook page, and they said they are made in USA.

Pics:









Super cooler anyone?