-
Welcome to The Truck Stop! We see you haven't REGISTERED yet.
Your truck knowledge is missing!
- Registration is FREE , all we need is your birthday and email. (We don't share ANY data with ANYONE)
- We have tons of knowledge here for your diesel truck!
- Post your own topics and reply to existing threads to help others out!
- NO ADS! The site is fully functional and ad free!
Problems registering? Click here to contact us!
Already registered, but need a PASSWORD RESET? CLICK HERE TO RESET YOUR PASSWORD!
Does any one have a real study on Cetane Boosters?
- Thread starter Drago
- Start date
ok I netsearched it to death most ALL cetane boosters contains 2-ethylhexal nitrate and or di-tert-butly peroxide plus some cleaner cleaner chemicals. This can be done at the plant and is done depending on the state or country you pump your diesel. So either way we have to suck it up and pay for the higher cetane if we want it.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Yeah, it's really what ever the in house chemist comes up with.
You can start bottling "Drago's drag race in a can" and start selling. Additives are right next to unregulated.
Just bring your own hydrometer.
From the refineries they just have to be within spec. They could add anything they want as long as in the end flashpoint, cloud point, gel point, and cetane hits figures. There are a few companies out there that run on the short side of carbon count to technically be diesel- but it hits spec, so it's good to go.
You can start bottling "Drago's drag race in a can" and start selling. Additives are right next to unregulated.
Just bring your own hydrometer.
From the refineries they just have to be within spec. They could add anything they want as long as in the end flashpoint, cloud point, gel point, and cetane hits figures. There are a few companies out there that run on the short side of carbon count to technically be diesel- but it hits spec, so it's good to go.
the wiki has it that http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog...en®ion=US&gclid=CMiR4Na-6coCFQIOaQodiS0FXQ works to boost cetane and if I was running a fleet of diesels or even was an OTR trucker I would buy it direct from the link for the quarter of the cost of the OTC stuff. Most all are 30% 2-ethylhexyl nitrate and the rest cleaners and dilution.
schiker
Well-Known Member
I don't think higher Cetane for the sake of Cetane is all that important if other properties are not known or also treated as important.
Most engines won't really feel any different with Cetane changes a few points nor much performance with different fuels. My neighbor drives a new Dodge and will fill up about anywhere including a small station that has very poor turn over IMO and never seems to have a problem.
Get some age on an IP and injectors of our generation and its a different ball game. I can't tell much difference seat of pants cruising, power accelerating, or power hill climbing etc with most fuels (but I usually buy from better sources). I can see some smoke differences driving and start up smoke with different additives. I can feel a difference in fuel quality but think its more lubricity, film strength, BTU, or viscosity than just Cetane number. Its something that affects low rpm low injection quantities. I feel the most influence of fuel at launch with computer idle control. I THINK it has more to do with some pumping losses and atomization of fuel than Cetane. I am guessing but think Cetane would mostly effect emissions.
Will can you talk a little bit about that or straighten out my understanding.
I think for most people additives are not needed but should be at least a maintenance thing. Fuel in general can be cruddy and tank, pump, and filter maintenance varies station to station (actual base fuel is basically regionally the same just transport and station variations). It only takes one tank to get you but I have only bought truly bad fuel twice that I know of. One smelled bad (stale offroad dyed diesel) and the other caused water in fuel light from a truck stop. I suspect the filters were past effective.
Most engines won't really feel any different with Cetane changes a few points nor much performance with different fuels. My neighbor drives a new Dodge and will fill up about anywhere including a small station that has very poor turn over IMO and never seems to have a problem.
Get some age on an IP and injectors of our generation and its a different ball game. I can't tell much difference seat of pants cruising, power accelerating, or power hill climbing etc with most fuels (but I usually buy from better sources). I can see some smoke differences driving and start up smoke with different additives. I can feel a difference in fuel quality but think its more lubricity, film strength, BTU, or viscosity than just Cetane number. Its something that affects low rpm low injection quantities. I feel the most influence of fuel at launch with computer idle control. I THINK it has more to do with some pumping losses and atomization of fuel than Cetane. I am guessing but think Cetane would mostly effect emissions.
Will can you talk a little bit about that or straighten out my understanding.
I think for most people additives are not needed but should be at least a maintenance thing. Fuel in general can be cruddy and tank, pump, and filter maintenance varies station to station (actual base fuel is basically regionally the same just transport and station variations). It only takes one tank to get you but I have only bought truly bad fuel twice that I know of. One smelled bad (stale offroad dyed diesel) and the other caused water in fuel light from a truck stop. I suspect the filters were past effective.
Last edited:
JMJNet
Recruit
By the way, I think Seafoam is NOT a cetane booster.
It is some form of alcohol and solvent.
I am not if alcohol is a cetane booster.
From what I gathered, alcohol is the nemesis in diesel fuel.
It is some form of alcohol and solvent.
I am not if alcohol is a cetane booster.
From what I gathered, alcohol is the nemesis in diesel fuel.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
I am not sure what to add there. Hopefully I don't muddy the water, but here goes.
The cetane rating is the measurement of how long it takes to cumbust when in a misted state. Kinda opposite of octane, or a flashpoint measurement of misted state. Too high a cetane rating and you have engine oil. Too low and you have gasoline. Just a measuring stick too make sure it is detonated not too soon or too late.
Btu is how much potential energy there is in the fuel, like calories in food. Literally how much fire you get from the fuel, and how hot it is.
Flashpoint is about the easiest to get. Put fuel in a shot glass at -50, keeping it stirred it up and place a lit match at its surface. (It won't light). Now raise fuel temp 1 degree at a time, the point it gives a little FLASH of ignition is its flashpoint. It's a point of reference, it's not misted like out your injectors.
So there is parameters all have to fall into, between X and y. How the fuel acts is going to very between them and how they interact with each other.
The following is for theoretical explanation. If you can't feel the difference of a plugging injector pump. Vs plugging injectors- don't try to diagnos your fuel by this information. Some race car drivers can tell the difference of fuels, the same guy can tell- it's the spark plugs or the plug wires, the distributor and coils are fine.
I've spent years playing with differences in fuels while knowing the exact differences and would fail a blind test probably 60% of the time. so...
Let's say you make some home brew and your cetane and flashpoint are perfect middle of the road. But with a low range btu count. The engine will run great off it and have wonderful fuel economy. Until you hook up a loaded trailer and drag it through the Rockies. Now your getting passed by everything in sight. Fuel economy plummets.
Now same perameters except a really high btu. Fuel economy will suffer even unloaded. and when you tow, it's not crazy powerful off the line, but good down the hiway. But the engine is quicker to overheat.
Balance the btu and cetane is moved around- slow acceleration, but quiet and smooth engine maybe a touch more smoke off the line. The other way and more pep, with some detonation, more "diesel clatter" and tad lower mpg. Sounds like timing you say? Especially us db2 guys? Exactly. The Injector is spraying st same time as always, but the fuel is igniting a hair sooner than it should, right on time, or a hair later than it should.
For the viscosity conversation, please see the same threads regarding engine oil- same same. Except unky-Sam helped push forward synthetic oil and is holding back synthetic fuel.
Jmjnet: cetane booster? Opposite. High cetane means longer time until ignition so actually opposite. But the general public doesn't get it so they advertise what sells. They can say boost up performance of cetane and it all lawyers argument for. There.
Your correct on alcohol and cleaners, with a touch of lubricant added in to try offsetting the alcohol. What's it really good for? Gelling fuel, or heavily carboned up or varnished systems. Yes diesel will varnish, just not as bad as gas.
I use it only when I have to- I bought an old generator that sat a long time- worked great. Travel from where #2 is sold and you fill up 2 tanks, then go hunting in an area you should have got #1? throw it in. It's a "oops" additive not a "long life" additive. Just like diesel911.
I keep a partial can of one type of another in my truck for a crazy emergency. One time I poured in 1/4 of a can on a trip. I am the first to scream at people no starting fluid in an Idi, yet next to the first can is starting fluid- incase of zombie day situations. Sometimes throwing away an engine early is worth dealing with the emergency. As a practice-no way.
Holy mackerel I talk a lot
The cetane rating is the measurement of how long it takes to cumbust when in a misted state. Kinda opposite of octane, or a flashpoint measurement of misted state. Too high a cetane rating and you have engine oil. Too low and you have gasoline. Just a measuring stick too make sure it is detonated not too soon or too late.
Btu is how much potential energy there is in the fuel, like calories in food. Literally how much fire you get from the fuel, and how hot it is.
Flashpoint is about the easiest to get. Put fuel in a shot glass at -50, keeping it stirred it up and place a lit match at its surface. (It won't light). Now raise fuel temp 1 degree at a time, the point it gives a little FLASH of ignition is its flashpoint. It's a point of reference, it's not misted like out your injectors.
So there is parameters all have to fall into, between X and y. How the fuel acts is going to very between them and how they interact with each other.
The following is for theoretical explanation. If you can't feel the difference of a plugging injector pump. Vs plugging injectors- don't try to diagnos your fuel by this information. Some race car drivers can tell the difference of fuels, the same guy can tell- it's the spark plugs or the plug wires, the distributor and coils are fine.
I've spent years playing with differences in fuels while knowing the exact differences and would fail a blind test probably 60% of the time. so...
Let's say you make some home brew and your cetane and flashpoint are perfect middle of the road. But with a low range btu count. The engine will run great off it and have wonderful fuel economy. Until you hook up a loaded trailer and drag it through the Rockies. Now your getting passed by everything in sight. Fuel economy plummets.
Now same perameters except a really high btu. Fuel economy will suffer even unloaded. and when you tow, it's not crazy powerful off the line, but good down the hiway. But the engine is quicker to overheat.
Balance the btu and cetane is moved around- slow acceleration, but quiet and smooth engine maybe a touch more smoke off the line. The other way and more pep, with some detonation, more "diesel clatter" and tad lower mpg. Sounds like timing you say? Especially us db2 guys? Exactly. The Injector is spraying st same time as always, but the fuel is igniting a hair sooner than it should, right on time, or a hair later than it should.
For the viscosity conversation, please see the same threads regarding engine oil- same same. Except unky-Sam helped push forward synthetic oil and is holding back synthetic fuel.
Jmjnet: cetane booster? Opposite. High cetane means longer time until ignition so actually opposite. But the general public doesn't get it so they advertise what sells. They can say boost up performance of cetane and it all lawyers argument for. There.
Your correct on alcohol and cleaners, with a touch of lubricant added in to try offsetting the alcohol. What's it really good for? Gelling fuel, or heavily carboned up or varnished systems. Yes diesel will varnish, just not as bad as gas.
I use it only when I have to- I bought an old generator that sat a long time- worked great. Travel from where #2 is sold and you fill up 2 tanks, then go hunting in an area you should have got #1? throw it in. It's a "oops" additive not a "long life" additive. Just like diesel911.
I keep a partial can of one type of another in my truck for a crazy emergency. One time I poured in 1/4 of a can on a trip. I am the first to scream at people no starting fluid in an Idi, yet next to the first can is starting fluid- incase of zombie day situations. Sometimes throwing away an engine early is worth dealing with the emergency. As a practice-no way.
Holy mackerel I talk a lot
- Staff
- #9
I have no scientific evidence to prove anything, but I use Stanadyne and Power Service fuel additives religiously. I feel much better using additives.
One of my favorites is Two Stroke oil. I add a little to every tank, along with some cetane boosting fuel additives. The injectors definitely run qiieter and smoother with the Two Stroke oil added to each tank.
Maybe I am crazy, but I just stick with what works for me.
I cut open every filter that I take off my truck and inspect. My filters have been consistantly cleaner when using fuel additive, than when I don't use any additive.
I also run a tank full of B99 when the weather breaks to give the whole system a good thorough cleaning just before changing the filters so I can be sure to collect and crap that may be in there. And I use Tall Can fuel filters for the best filtration that I can get.
It may be overkill, but it works for me.
One of my favorites is Two Stroke oil. I add a little to every tank, along with some cetane boosting fuel additives. The injectors definitely run qiieter and smoother with the Two Stroke oil added to each tank.
Maybe I am crazy, but I just stick with what works for me.
I cut open every filter that I take off my truck and inspect. My filters have been consistantly cleaner when using fuel additive, than when I don't use any additive.
I also run a tank full of B99 when the weather breaks to give the whole system a good thorough cleaning just before changing the filters so I can be sure to collect and crap that may be in there. And I use Tall Can fuel filters for the best filtration that I can get.
It may be overkill, but it works for me.
Last edited:
My conclusion is most everyone is right on the magic juice they use because most all contain 30% 2-ethylhexyl nitrate
My plan is just to go ahead and find some other diesel heads and order a 55 gallon drum of the stuff at the fraction of the price of the OTC . Maybe change the ratio to 50% DEHN and 50 ashless two stroke oil. I'll call it "Triple D!" ; Drago's Diesel Dynamite.
My plan is just to go ahead and find some other diesel heads and order a 55 gallon drum of the stuff at the fraction of the price of the OTC . Maybe change the ratio to 50% DEHN and 50 ashless two stroke oil. I'll call it "Triple D!" ; Drago's Diesel Dynamite.
- Staff
- #11
There used to be this snakeoil Monster Diesel stuff. It was supposed to be the best thing since round rubber tires. Nah, lets not go there. LOL
Save yourself some time and trouble and use Stanadyne or Power Service. Get them when they are on sale. And enjoy the benefits. Come up with your own favorite concoction. And share the results with us.
Save yourself some time and trouble and use Stanadyne or Power Service. Get them when they are on sale. And enjoy the benefits. Come up with your own favorite concoction. And share the results with us.
The MSDS on "Monster Diesel" has 10% Ethylene Glycol monobutyl ether. It's used in torpedo fuel and Coka Cola. the rest is filler petroleum and naptha
Here it is folks, from the Gods of SAE http://papers.sae.org/981364/
use the boost that has the DEHN juice
use the boost that has the DEHN juice
- Staff
- #15
That test was done in 1998 using LSD. We need a comparison test done using ULSD fuel.
Good to see that I haven't been wasting my money.
Good to see that I haven't been wasting my money.
Sulfur doesn't affect Cetane, it does affect lubricity
- Staff
- #17
The article mentioned engine wear, thus the comparison test using ULSD fuel. Both Stanadyne and Power Service have wear additives added, as well as Cetane boosters.
Time for a new updated test.
Time for a new updated test.
Last edited:
JMJNet
Recruit
Great explanation. So, I am correct that Seafoam is NOT a cetane improver?
Just oops additive to clean. NOT FOR EVERY FILL UP.
DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!
Alcohol is a fuel tank dryer by adsorbing water like the near harmless puddle in the bottom of your tank and making it very hard for the water separator filter to get it out of the fuel. Then you send this lack of lube stuff through the injection system as the first whammy and the second whammy is the water doing damage.
Seafoam is a bad idea. The only time you would use something like this is the GM injection system cleaner (with Alcohol in it to dry the system) out of a 5 gal bucket to clean a fuel system that has bugs in it, etc. You have already dropped and cleaned the tank at this point and hope you can save things before replacing everything.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Ha! Well spoken Arizonian! Every time I put it in a tank I know I am killing the ip & injectors a little more. Just think of it as your on the freeway in a panic drive getting someone to the hospital dying - so what the temperature is 260, keep the pedal mashed to the floor.
When it's not important enough to possibly spend a couple thousand dollars on that trip, don't do it.
When it's not important enough to possibly spend a couple thousand dollars on that trip, don't do it.