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DIY BD1 Programming - Burn your own chips!

Yes actully, though I believe there are some hoops to jump through because the ECM on those puts the eprom on a little dedicated card. But software wise its the same thing, and the same eprom burner. I bought my burner for $45 on ebay.

The DIY tuning forum on thirdgen.org should be able to answer every question you have (and don't have yet, but will) regarding that setup.
 
3500GMC said:
That's awesome drip, thanks for sharing this. I'm interested in the progress too.. Keep us in the loop!

Curious, would this burner setup work for a mid 80's Tuned port injection SBC setup?
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You can, but this is what you really want: http://www.dynamicefi.com/

So much easier.

When I put tpi on my 89 k1500 350, I first ran a 7477 ecm with the batch fire port mod, then a modified 7427 PCM. Eventually swapped it over to obdII with a complete vortec harness and a 411 PCM.

If I had to do it all over again I'd have just bought an EBL an be done with it. Great piece of kit for an older rig. Makes life soooo much easier.

All though, I do have tuner cat obdII now, and a road runner real time tuner emulator that would work in a 411 PCM, plus two complete tpi setups in the garage from when I scrapped the 89......

No no no, must resist! To many projects already.....;)
 
So, as was raised earlier in the thread, what about us OBDII people? $600+ for an entire new reflashed ECM is BOHICA! Especially when I watched my mechanic hook up his Tech 2 to my OBDII diagnostic post, went on line, and then reflashed my ECM with GM's latest stock updates for my '98 Burb in an attempt to fix my weird TCC unlocking/locking cycling problem (see my thread in 4L80E category) that was actually ultimately an IP mechanical problem.

If Duramaxes with OBDII (and now Cummins's, too) can use EFI Live to store multiple tunes to switch from Tow to Economy to Race to Valet with no hassle, why can't we do the same with our OBDII 6.5's? I'm all for a multi-tune way to interface with our ECM, and use an EFILive-like programmer to do it with and also monitor engine vitals like boost, EGT, trans temp, etc. that the computer sees, just like Duramax owners can. I would LOVE to be able to switch to an economy tune for that 700 mile Interstate road trip, then when I get to where I'm going switch to a race tune to embarrass some tuner in an Acura at a stop light, then put it in valet mode before turning it over to the parking attendant at dinner that night, then put it into Tow mode before hitching up to the Scout Troop's equipment trailer and heading out on a camp out. Not asking too much, because if a multi-position, multi-program Eprom is available, then it CAN be done on OBDII by someone with the knowledge/expertise. And yes, early retirement for that person is a reality. Build it, and they will come and buy.
 
Husker6.5 said:
So, as was raised earlier in the thread, what about us OBDII people? $600+ for an entire new reflashed ECM is BOHICA! Especially when I watched my mechanic hook up his Tech 2 to my OBDII diagnostic post, went on line, and then reflashed my ECM with GM's latest stock updates for my '98 Burb in an attempt to fix my weird TCC unlocking/locking cycling problem (see my thread in 4L80E category) that was actually ultimately an IP mechanical problem.

If Duramaxes with OBDII (and now Cummins's, too) can use EFI Live to store multiple tunes to switch from Tow to Economy to Race to Valet with no hassle, why can't we do the same with our OBDII 6.5's? I'm all for a multi-tune way to interface with our ECM, and use an EFILive-like programmer to do it with and also monitor engine vitals like boost, EGT, trans temp, etc. that the computer sees, just like Duramax owners can. I would LOVE to be able to switch to an economy tune for that 700 mile Interstate road trip, then when I get to where I'm going switch to a race tune to embarrass some tuner in an Acura at a stop light, then put it in valet mode before turning it over to the parking attendant at dinner that night, then put it into Tow mode before hitching up to the Scout Troop's equipment trailer and heading out on a camp out. Not asking too much, because if a multi-position, multi-program Eprom is available, then it CAN be done on OBDII by someone with the knowledge/expertise. And yes, early retirement for that person is a reality. Build it, and they will come and buy.
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I've got a "little bit" of experience in this area, so I'll give an answer a shot.

This is way off topic, so it might be worth a mod splitting it off the thread.

"Tuning" OBDII:

There are options for tuning your own PCM in OBDII, but they're not cheap. Lowest price of admission is just under a grand. Next price point is just under 2 grand. That's hardware, software and the OEM calibration files. Like it or not, there is no available "freeware" or cheap hardware that works with OBDII.

Well, there are a few pirated options you might be able to find. If you don't mind being a dirty thief that is. And you still need a specifc interface piece of hardware to talk to the PCM. It's not just a simple ALDL cable.....

Another issue with the 6.x OBDII truck is the PCM doesn’t “read”. Meaning; you can’t download the calibration from it, only upload. It’s either the hardware or the software that blocks it. Doesn’t matter, they won’t download the calibration file.

So, you need an access point to tis2web (as your mechanic did) in order to get the calibration files. This costs money.

Lots of money.

When you get a vehicle definition file for an OBDII year, you get the OEM cal from the seller. They have to pay GM Service Parts for access to those files (not cheap) and the cost gets passed on to who?

You guessed it; the guy who buys the software/hardware from them. It's built into the purchase price like every other product you buy.

No biggie, that’s just the way the world works.

FYI; 99 bucks from Lyndon for the VDF and the OEM cal is a steal. I don't know how he makes any money on it.....


Switchable tunes:

This is a bit more complex.

OBDI has switchable options because the architecture of the hardware lends itself to the use of "emulators". Meaning, the removable PROM lends itself to modification and incorporation of a "pony board".

The emulator boards are already out there and available (for other applications) for OBDI, if you look in the right places. This emulator is what enables "switchable tunes" as well as other options. The PCM is still the same old OBDI PCM.

OBDII is a different beast. The flash chip is a PLCC32 surface mount. You need to lift the chip off the board with a heat station and cobble up an adapter. Once you've gotten to this point, you need to find an emulator that works with the adapter, plus have enough space to store the programs.

Which brings up another issue; obdII is a bigger program than OBDI. That's why it has a 1 MB flash chip vice the 512 (IIRC) on OBDI.

So you now need an emulator that has several flash chips or high capacity chips and some kind of partition to separate the programs on the chip and select them. Automotive grade would also be best for the chips, they're just a bit more "robust" (heat, moisture, vibration, etc). After you figure out all this, you need to find an emulator that supports "switching" as well.

Efilive and duramax can do it:

Duramax boards support switchable calibrations because it's built into the OEM Bosch board. The OEM has already done the work for them. The OBDII 6.5 are Motorola and don't support that function. They're two very different beasts. Hense, the need for emulators and some custom built equipment.

EFI live has no intention of supporting 6.X trucks, ever. Well, at least not the last time I talked to the developers.

The market is too small for the R&D costs.

The OBDII 6.x trucks essentially had a 3 year production run (mainsteam), the Duramax is much longer than that so the customer base is there. As the duramaxes become more affordable in years, more younger guys are buying them and that means more demand for the “performance stuff”.

Older in years for the 6.X’s just means they are closer to the grave.

Lets also not forget; the 6.x generally has a bad rep and as soon as someone asks “what do you think of them?” on a web board (where all the yung ‘uns live these days) the immediate answers are usually something like “can’t polish a turd” or “it’s a dog”. That sends the kiddies right off in another direction.

Personally, I’m OK with that because it keeps the prices low. For both trucks and replacement parts. There will come a time that will be a bad thing though as the parts market begins dropping all support for the breed. But thats just the way of all things…..age brings obsolescence and eventually obscurity.

OBDI is easy because it's been hacked 6 ways from Sunday. GM learned their lesson with OBDI and made OBDII a little bit harder/expensive for people to hack, although it has been done.

"Momma GM don't want the kids rummaging around in the cupboards".......

Early retirement:

Umm, no. You won't get rich off anything for a 6.x, sad but true. Maybe if you had a "niche" shop like Heath and sold all kinds of products you could make a living at it. Maybe....

Accept it or not, Like it or not, the 6.x is a dying breed. More so in the aftermarket. That's because there's no real money to be made in it. As the years continue to advance, it's only going to get rarer and even more unsupported. Nothing personal on anyone's part, it's just the way of things....

6.X owners also tend to typically be......ahem......"frugal". Most have a hard time coughing up 500-ish bucks for a remapped PCM. There are tuning options out there for around a grand, but to date only a handful of "non-shop" buyers have come forth to spend the dough. Heck, only a handful of shops have ponied up the dough to remap 6.x's.....not enough money in it for more than a couple "niche" guys....


I've tried to keep the tone as neutral as possible here, no emotion or personal stuff is intended. Just trying to pass on some info as best I can…….


Cheers
 
I feel like i'm hijacking this thread to talk about my OBDI tuning stuff, BUT ITS MY THREAD DAMNIT! :eek:

Actually, I totally welcome the OBDII info, its nice to know.

As far as my failure yesterday, I've managed to diagnose what went wrong. My first chip didn't work, everything else I did has. So I reburned that first image, worked great.

Good sign right? I checked my cellphone images of the first chip install. It was backwards. Thats right, a simple 180 swap. So it seems my fears that the xdf was REALLY awful and produced an unusable BIN are unfounded. Tune away, gentlemen!
 
thedrip said:
I feel like i'm hijacking this thread to talk about my OBDI tuning stuff, BUT ITS MY THREAD DAMNIT! :eek:

Actually, I totally welcome the OBDII info, its nice to know.
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We'd be more than willing to split out the OBDII discussion to another thread if you want. I do, personally, think adding it in as a point of reference between the generations is very useful information to have included here. Good for you that you are getting this discussion moving. This is something that has been a 'perceived' big mystery for too long.
 
Cumminsfever said:
Following this closely... for the ability to tune trans.
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Everything is in place. I've successfully burned chips, and they work. My total cost is something like $60-65, but I bought a TON of electronics components, mockup boards,etc to do other parallel projects with this one. As far as whats actually needed to get tuning, I bought a $45 eprom burner from ebay. There are $35 burners available, but they don't work under windows 7 (top853). the G540 burner works find under win7. I also purchased a handful of 27SF512 chips. You can get away with only a single chip, but I wanted extra as a safety net while figuring all this out. They cost a couple of dollars. Then the stripboard, male and female headers that I used to make the two adapters.

The adapter dimensions are VERY convenient. EPROMs have a spacing of 0.6" between rows, the PCM has a spacing of 0.8". This means normal prototyping boards work. Put together a board with pins top and bottom, and a board with an IC socket on top, and female headers on the bottom.

Thats it. thats all I had to buy. I've provided links to all the software and information needed.

GO NUTS!
 
the definition file I've been using (EC.xdf) has all of the transmission tables. How accurate they are, I don't know, but they're there. I found a definition and BIN file for a standalone 4L80E controller, and everything looks the same, so it can't be too far off.
 
Great White: Thanks for all the great info, you also explained quite nicely why us 6.x'ers with OBD-II are S.O.L. as opposed to D-Max/Cummins/Stroke OBD-II. We're running the same programs on Commodore 64/Atari hardware (boy does that date me!) as they do on their iPad! (In essence.) It's a shame that we can't alter variables like with EFI Live, then store multiple tunes in a device like SCT and then download/reflash as necessary with the tune we need for the situation. Guess I'll just have to find someone with a good OBD-II highway economy tune for my Family Truckster Suburban and pay my first-born (let them feed a 6'4", 290lb 19 year old in college, I think I would have the better end of that deal!!:lmao:) for a reflashed ECM.

thedrip: I would love it if you came up with a really good economy/mild tow tune for OBD-I (Fuel economy first, better MPG's = less overhead costs so more profit without charging more, why I went diesel over gas for the work truck. If it gave 15-20 hp more from combustion efficiency, the better). My '94 C2500 C/C with utility box and with 4L80E and 3.42 rear work truck would really groove on that! The factory tune appears to have a speed limiter built into the programming, as max speed is 82 MPH floored, regardless of gear, even fully loaded down a hill with a 30mph tail wind! It hits 82 and feels like it defuels. I can be pedal to the floor accelerating and as it hits 82, poof, no faster! Since it's a Cheyenne base model with no cruise control, on the Interstate I just keep the pedal to the metal to maintain 82! The Interstate speed limit rural out here is 75, and the State Patrol has an UNofficial "cushion" of 7mph. If you're going 83, they WILL pull you over, but I never got pulled over in 42,000 miles on the Interstate at 82.
 
Well, after 3 or 4 iterations, I have a chip burned that i'll run for a few weeks. upped a bunch of fuel (only over 60% throttle), added a little timing, then some tweaks on the TCC lockup, removing over/underboost codes. Upped the boost at higher RPMs as well. Too bad the GM-5 isnt quite keeping up.

Ran a 0-60 with the stock chip, as 18.2. drove around a bit to make sure everything was at a nice normal temp again, swapped chips, did the same run, same weather, within 30 minutes of the first run, same road, same direction. 13.5s 0-60. Thats a HUGE improvement! EGTs never went over 900 on my gauge.

We have a winner for a little while, the truck is a completely different animal now.
 
thedrip said:
Well, after 3 or 4 iterations, I have a chip burned that i'll run for a few weeks. upped a bunch of fuel (only over 60% throttle), added a little timing, then some tweaks on the TCC lockup, removing over/underboost codes. Upped the boost at higher RPMs as well. Too bad the GM-5 isnt quite keeping up.

Ran a 0-60 with the stock chip, as 18.2. drove around a bit to make sure everything was at a nice normal temp again, swapped chips, did the same run, same weather, within 30 minutes of the first run, same road, same direction. 13.5s 0-60. Thats a HUGE improvement! EGTs never went over 900 on my gauge.

We have a winner for a little while, the truck is a completely different animal now.
Click to expand...

Keep massaging. Sub 10 second 0-60 times are hiding in there somewhere.....;)
 
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