Ceramic coating FACTS for the DIY'er

[Twisted Steel Performance]

Why do you feel the coatings helped head flow ?

Less boundary resistance, the glass like finish provides less "drag" in air flow...

And other shops have provided before & after flow numbers that show this..

I am also in the process of being able to document this with the heads I'm working on..

Somewhere in the monthly news letters is the data backing this up, I would need to spend time looking for it tho...

Chris

 

[Will L.]

On the thermal dispersants I saw the the video where the drifting race guy did testing by the university on his CAC and had improved by 36%.
I haven't seen anything on coating the block and heads with something in the coolant chambers. I would guess the same material is used hut not sure.

I get 2 different materials are used on the 2 different housings of the turbo, 1 for blocking the heat and the other for transfering heat quicker. What about the internals of the turbo? I don't remember if you did your turbo or not.

And thank you for this thread and sharing your experience. I am going to spend some descent time following the links you posted.

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

Some of my questions might be better suited to the company directly, but they might go with the legal answer vs what you might have played with or heard of some people trying.

Clearancing camshaft bearing fitment is always an expensive process in a machine shop. Getting really tight clearance for the horrible clearance design of the 6.5 helped a lot in my hotrodded 6.5s.

I know some of the coatings can have mutiple layers applied like the ceramic that would be used on exhaust manifolds, pipes,etc.
Also I know the dry lube (to help with less friction) sprayed on main and rod bearings goes on a very thin layer to keep clearances as close to the same as possible.

Can multiple layers be added to decrease gap? In otherwords, do a layer of the thicker ceramic coat on camshaft and camshaft bearings to increase dimensions, then coat the final layer with the drylube?

Will, I don't remember the name of the product used to tighten the clearance on bearings right off, I know it is applied to the back of the bearing, not the wear side. I know they were working on other types & processes for just what you asked, it
s just not a area I have dealt with... Leonard or the tech number would be able to answer that.... better yet, join their forum and other applicators will also be able to chime in... there is a link for that also, it is Tech Lines own forum for applicators to ask & answer questions...

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

On the thermal dispersants I saw the the video where the drifting race guy did testing by the university on his CAC and had improved by 36%.
I haven't seen anything on coating the block and heads with something in the coolant chambers. I would guess the same material is used hut not sure.

I get 2 different materials are used on the 2 different housings of the turbo, 1 for blocking the heat and the other for transfering heat quicker. What about the internals of the turbo? I don't remember if you did your turbo or not.

And thank you for this thread and sharing your experience. I am going to spend some descent time following the links you posted.

Yep, there have been many test showing the greater cooling effects of TLTD, many are using that product in everything from autos to home AC unites... many uses for that one for sure..

As for coating the inside of a turbine, I don't think that is recommended, I have asked that question myself and it wasn't advised for the turbo I inquired about... I have seen on the web where it was done but I know nothing about who did it...

There is no coating for the water jacket area that I know of, it would be difficult to etch that area...

Coating the outside area works great, valve springs, head area in the rocker area also works great at wicking heat out of the oil, oil pans, etc....

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

Will, parts of the inside turbine can be coated, for instance the vgt's where the veins get sticky on the he351's can be coated to prevent soot build up and lube the area making it slick.. for that one would use "Cremalube" it also is a fluid retaining coating that can be used in many other places in the motor..

Chris

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

The catalog has muchoo info in it, it gives places to use the different products download it and save it, lots of info...

http://www.techlinecoatings.com/hi-performance/pdf/catalog.pdf

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

@Will L. Applying 2 coats to the wear side won't achieve anything but waste, it's not necessary and won't tighten the clearance you are asking about, the clearance tightening is done on the back of bearings ie making them slightly thicker, I just don't remember what product right off but I will look it up...

There are places that 2 different products are used, mostly in the thermal barrier products where a base & 2nd product will provide more of a barrier than just a single product..

Chris

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

This is from a news letter a few months ago....

From Our Distributors...
The following is from Robert Dow of Dow Integrated Systems in Trinidad and Tobago. Robert is an experienced racer/engine builder and also our Distributor for the Caribbean region.

He sends us this report and pictures on a recent project:
The project engine is a Nissan SR20 that was initially built without coatings. The engine had made about 575WHP@35lbs boost with the aid of a 75-shot of NOS to wake it up. It developed problems however due to a suspected faulty O2 sensor and damaged the pistons.

With the customer on a budget, my engine builder reached out to me for a rescue job. I checked the pistons' tolerances and then set about removing the scuff damage finally polishing the set with a special belt.

Next step was to prep and coat the set using our new Gold thermal barrier coating (TL-PTG) on the crown, C-Lube (CCL) on the skirt and TLTD on the underside to help control the temp and thereby growth.

The net result is that the engine not only works but makes 30 more WHP and torque at 5lbs less boost. The results speak for themselves as seen on the test below!

I removed the contact info that is in the original news letter...

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

One of the things I will do to the motor I'm working on this time is the "Diamondyze" treatment to the pistons, they will be sent to GA for that treatment then I will give them a 3 coat treatment, The gold top coating that was developed for top fuel use, TLTD for the underside and Cermalube for the skirts..

The Diamondyze treatment will prevent any & all scuffing period, no ring land squish, will last a lifetime and the pistons will be nearly indestructible, the cost is very reasonable for a set of 8.. with this done to the pistons heat or egt temps will not be a worry... this treatment is being done to most all top fuel pistons and tractor pullers and everywhere in between...

There is a good video on there web site the treated aluminum is harder than a file ....

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

@Will L. Here is some info you asked about, taken from 2/16 news letter....



A Note About TLMB / TLML
This combination of coatings is being underused by many. TLMB was first developed to build up Top Fuel Piston skirts. TLMB can be used to build up where clearances have opened or to tighten clearances if you wish. The actual build up can be controlled easily and if fine tuning is desired to the thickness specified it can be burnished to a final dimension quite easily and then a final top coat of TLML would be applied.

The TLML increases the lubrication characteristics, though TLMB has excellent lubrication properties. If it begins to wear any amount, it has internal lubricants to maintain the friction reduction characteristics. If it does wear or abrade the particles are of no concern as they contain lubrication properties. These products as a “team” were introduced in 1991 and have an excellent track record.

In fact some shops have used a thin film of TLMB with a top coat of TLML on all pistons as this combination does not burnish like TLML itself does and while many understand the coating does not have to be visible to function, the TLMB is very hard to get to burnish so as to no longer be visible, so the piston if later removed still has a visible coating. The TLMB/TLML combination is essentially a permanent coating and while it can wear, the combination is designed to do so very slowly and can last for years. The coating is fluid/oil retaining, can absorb some foreign particles and has excellent corrosion and chemical resistance with excellent heat resistance. One of the greatest advantages is that the lubricants used can function even if a complete breakdown of the oil film occurs.

Their function is not limited to Pistons and the combination has been used on Race, Street, OEM and Industrial components like Pistons, Superchargers (Automotive and Industrial) both rotary and screw type, Gears, Pumps of all kinds and a wide variety of Industrial Equipment.


Chris

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

More user info on the piston coatings ....


Why Should Piston Tops be Coated with PowerKote™ CBX?

Take a look at these "pistons that were run in last year's truck pulls by our customer, Black Sky Racing LLC. 50 hooks on these pistons, plus they melted the turbo on the dyno, and the pistons still look great!" - From David White at PistonCoating.com
(A Division of Serviscreen Corporation) Jenison, Michigan

"The soot was pretty stubborn, but the one I spent a little time with shows how well things held up. I'm really impressed with how well the ceramic held up where the injector spray pattern literally blow torches the top of the piston. We're confident enough in the way the coatings held up on these pistons that we're sending them to be fitted with a set of tool steel gapless rings. With a little luck we'll find sweet spot in our current fuel and air to break into the quadruple digit hp numbers." - Stan Siler, Black Sky Racing LLC

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

This is one test performed using TLTD...




Product Focus: TLTD
(Thermal Dispersant)
A test was performed by Florida International University Formula SAE Team for Engine Armor Coatings, a Tech Line applicator in Florida. They tested TLTD against 2 products from a competitor on intercoolers measuring the inlet and outlet temperatures, including an uncoated inercooler. Three tests were run and in each, TLTD showed the best results for thermal performance. The performance of even the uncoated was about the same in the very beginning, but within seconds TLTD took the lead in transferring heat. In all testing ever done TLTD shows greater thermal function as temperatures increase. Even with the temperatures lower in the test (start was 180°F), which is similar to a radiator’s temperature at the start, TLTD still outperformed the others.

This test was designed to see which coating cooled the test unit the fastest, indicating the ability to move heat. In a normal application the rate would be higher and would not only lower the temperature faster, but it would stabilize at a lower temperature. Useful on Radiators, Intercoolers, Brakes, Oil Pans, Transmission Pans, Wheels, A/C & Refrigeration Condenser Coils and more. There are many Automotive and Industrial applications for TLTD.

 

[ak diesel driver]

I had some headers ceramic coated years ago had bleed thru rust within 4 months. Poor application? Poor prep? Or am I expecting too much?

 

[btfarm]

Tons of great info in this thread Chris.

 

[EWC]

It would be interesting to see some of the numbers for head flow . Could be a good and bad deal depending on the engine . Had Swain coat the tops of my pistons , that stuff is thin .

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

I had some headers ceramic coated years ago had bleed thru rust within 4 months. Poor application? Poor prep? Or am I expecting too much?

Just guessing here AK... a little of both ??

I have always said the prep is at the top of MY list, if things don't get started correct the outcome won't be good. One reason I am cautious about what I do to used parts, diesel heads being the big one, all the fuel & oil being forced into the metal from all areas... can and has been done successfully but requires attention from the start..

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

It would be interesting to see some of the numbers for head flow . Could be a good and bad deal depending on the engine . Had Swain coat the tops of my pistons , that stuff is thin .

The difference between diesel & gas would be a difference in what coating was used in the intake runners & intake itself... with fuel flowing through the runners you would use C-lube where you would want to keep the fuel from dropping out, diesels not having that like the slick walls as we don't worry about fuel drop out... Also the TLHB provides a added heat barrier to help keep the air charge from gaining temps to some extent..

I plan to have the numbers you want, we have already shown flow numbers for the p400 heads I'm working on in out of the box form, the larger exhaust valves & seats are done now, once I have them back I will do the porting, unshrouding, coating, etc, then I will send them off and have the independent shop flow them again, same shop, same machine in a effort to duplicate everything... that's about the best I can do, it will still be a while before that is finished..

As for the shop you mentioned, no comment....

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

Tons of great info in this thread Chris.

Thanks Mike,

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

I had some headers ceramic coated years ago had bleed thru rust within 4 months. Poor application? Poor prep? Or am I expecting too much?

@ak diesel driver Without knowing anything I wouldn't make any assumptions, Tech Line is a manufacture, not a coating shop, not all manufactures are the same and not all shops use the same products.. Most shops won't tell you what they really use as far as products & who makes what they spray, some will give something a fancy name that matches there shop, the shops that I know that use Tech Lines products are proud to be able to say that and don't hide the fact.. unlike some others out there we don't need to hide the fact we use the best stuff..

 

[ak diesel driver]

at the time it was a big name outfit, had the headers shipped to them directly from the warehouse. Should have been pretty clean to start with