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BD Quick Spool Valve Install with Pics

I have already said it. I want off this forum. For one reason only.
Slim Shady said:
Off topic forum, skypilot
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Slim Anus aka Dennis. Your an asshole. **** You. You have ruined way to many good threads.
ATT = Assholes Tractor Turbo. You will never find one on my truck.

btfarm said:
There WILL BE NO sniping back and forth about this discussion, especially from the USUAL suspects including those who took a long or longer vacation from here or the next vacation will be involutary. We've NEVER had a heavy hand with these discussions in the over 5 years of this forum but every damn member of the staff is all full up on the crap that these kinds of attitudes have fostered. You'll note I've changed my 'just helpin out' user title. It's time to expect friendly.. not ask for friendly.
Carry on gents...
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Ban me . I don't care. I have only said what no one else will.
 
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I for one would like to see the results of the valve, myself & 6.5 use our truck for towing heavy, my horse trl & horses is a bit more than his, but I am at a lower altitude than he is.... and I will be using a very different turbo than BOTH the ATT & clone HX40.....( PRO40 hybrid) I think mine will spool at a low RPM & keep going past what I will need for RPM's... I don't have the new motor done yet, or the turbo done yet, maybe late fall, but I would like to see what the valve does for low RPM's just in case I want to lower the range of mine, so I am pleased to see what is going on here......:thumbsup: Keep up the good work 6.5.
 
First off, after hearing everything on this thread, I'm glad I live at and do all my towing at Sea Level. 2ND, what does this valve cost?
 
I was content without the quick spool valve.
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Then why bother with a spool valve setup. Not bashing you just pointing out the obvious. If you were content than no further mod would have been needed or wanted.

None of us are content, we all want more out of our trucks and that is what this and other forums are supposed to be about, helping and sharing, not bashing or deceiving others into false info.

Posting vids and other data is more powerful than typed words as you can see what the results are instead of depending on trusting someones opinion.

Now, do not be deceived by this as I am saying the ATT is laggy
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That's what people have complained about the whole time with this turbo,and the reason you tried the spool valve setup was the lag, and in my case besides the lag and also having on average 200* higher EGTs vs. the 40 I run.

As of now I think I'm still missing something because I believe that I should be getting more than 14lbs. of boost out of the ATT.

That's why I'm testing the ATT, to see for myself what it will do and how it will perform. I would gladly live with the lag if it would tow better than the HX40 does, and I'm still testing and trying to get it to do that.

But so far I haven't been able to get it to do as well as I had hoped it would. So far the hx40 I run is better off the bottom and pulls like an animal all the way to 3,500 rpm.

Look at this vid and tell me if my truck is doing alright for an A/T with 3.42 gears, http://youtu.be/GKd6UfbHcOI

I'm sharing this with you and would like your honest opinion. I'm not asking you to run one, just want to know how you think my truck runs with this turbo and is it comparable to what your running.

The truth is the ATT is Inherently going to have more lag off the line due to it's design and that may be fine for some people and their setups. I just get sick of the people trying to say it's fine down low[below1,700 rpm] when it isn't.

I'm not bashing the ATT, it is what it is, just like the HX40II, HX40 is what it is.

I only want what most people want, an open mind to any and all improvements that may move us forward and that includes what works and what doesn't work in a particular type of truck and the way it is used.
 
robzombie4551 said:
Then why bother with a spool valve setup. Not bashing you just pointing out the obvious. If you were content than no further mod would have been needed or wanted.
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It's a disease, my BURB ran just fine with the 6.5 but I wanted more. I swapped in the DURAMAX and it ran like a raped ape, yet I still wanted more. I was content at each stage of the process, but the bug always rears it's head and the tinkerer in me wants to try something else. I twisted the frame rails in mine from to much bottem end torque, most would detune it to prevent that from happening. Not me though, I played with the bottem end tuning, and tweaked it to be a bit laggy down low and pull up top after it changes gears. It is truly a sickness I believe as we may be content, but most all of us want more. And I agree, videos and hard facts to prove the end results can be very useful. And it's nice to see some dyno sheets, or even max speed held on a grade at a certain RPM and MPH to back up what mods do what is better than the ole but dyno.

As for the quick spool valve, have you considered a cable actuated spring to actuate it instead of a wastegate blow off type? I would think with a cable actuated set-up you could open the valve at low throttle, and then at high throttle use a cable to pull over a spring type set-up to pull over the quick spool valve. It would be like a turbo master, but with a cable to put spring tension on. Set it up so that at about 1/4 throttle it closes, but below that it would be open. This could give you the best of both worlds at a cheaper cost than an electrically actuated set-up. Or if you had a DS-4 truck, use the stock vacuum system to actuate teh quick spool valve like I believe buddy suggested. This would give you a much finer control over it at a low cost if you had a electronically controlled engine.
 
It's a disease, my BURB ran just fine with the 6.5 but I wanted more. I swapped in the DURAMAX and it ran like a raped ape, yet I still wanted more. I was content at each stage of the process, but the bug always rears it's head and the tinkerer in me wants to try something else.
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EXACTLY!!!


I twisted the frame rails in mine from to much bottem end torque
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A problem most of us wish we could afford [atleast me anyways]

I wish I could put a DMAX between the framerails of my burb.
 
"Lag" is really a 'RPM dead zone'

The ATT really doesn't have lag they way the term is thrown around here. Rather it is going to generate boost or not depending on RPM and load. Below about 2000 RPM LAG is irrelevant as it simply isn't generating a lot of boost to use. This is what I will call a RPM boost dead zone. Lugging the engine loaded you can't get the boost up enough to clear the smoke in the RPM dead zone.

So with all large turbo's you need to downshift to bring the engine RPM up and generate boost. After all you have a transmission with 4 or 5 gears and can do this manually or get a tune to change the shift points.

So you can use cruise control or drive the large turbo improperly with the stock tune for an auto that is designed for an small turbo and get smokey miserable results. For example you can leave it in high gear and attempt to climb a 6-10% grade and smoke out the people behind you with high EGT's. Or you can approach the same grade and downshift before the engine lugs out with a sun blocking smokescreen. (45 MPH example comes to mind at 10% grade or 35 MPH 7% grade.)

Yes, I am recommending the automatic transmission have it's shift points changed in a tune to downshift sooner and lug the engine less for the A Team Turbo.

It is simply getting used to the idea that you have a large turbo that will generate useable boost without choking the engine above 2200 RPM. Your trade off is that is does not generate a lot of boost below 1700-2000 RPM.

Calling the time it takes to get the engine from 600 RPM to 1700 RPM "lag" is not correct. This 600 idle RPM to 1700 no boost dead zone is the entire reason for the BD valve. Lag is the time it takes the turbo to go from 1-3 LBS of boost to 18 LBS of boost at 2500 RPM when you slap the throttle to the floor.

The smaller wastgated HX40II shrinks the dead zone by a few hundred RPM. Because it is a smaller turbo you trade off the top end. The driving style of stoplight to stoplight and unwillingness to downshift for the larger ATT turbo appear to be weaknesses shown in videos of the turbo.

It is simply a matter of getting used to a diffrent driving style for a streetable large turbo vs. the low rpm exhaust clogging factory turbo you just removed.

If you think the HX40II pulls the same as the ATT in the top end I respectfully suggest more fuel for the ATT. And clearly more fuel than the GM3 can handle. Altitude will change your results and the amount of fuel you can throw at ANY turbo.

Altitude affects all turbo's especially when you are pushing the limits or in layman's terms working the truck as intended like towing. Out here unloaded the grades are enough to work the truck alone.

From my 1993 pickup:
At 1000' elevation and fueling unchanged (and too high to be emissions compliant):

GM3 would push 1350 EGT at 1000' elevation. Higher elevation it starts to smoke black and EGT's beyond insane.

The ATT is affected going from 1100 EGT at 1000' elevation to 1300 EGT at 4500' elevation (smoke free).

As far as real "Lag" goes you are not going to notice the the time it takes the ATT to spool up to full boost at 2500 RPM. 2500 RPM being a freeway cruise RPM. The same 2500 RPM that the GM3 is at half to full boost from airflow alone with zero throttle. Adding throttle simply opens the wastegate more on a GM3 at that RPM.

The GM3 has a RPM dead zone above 2200 RPM - and this zone is why the 6.5TD is considered the gutless... um... well the resale value vs. other diesels says it all.
 
I personally would like to see a comparison of the 2 turbos with HARD data and videos with EACH turbo set up in an ideal set-up for each combination. Personally from what I have seen and heard, the ATT needs a converter with higher torque multiplication in the mid range, but looser off idle to make it work properly. It sounds like it would do better with a 20:1 to stock CR, and a tune that is matched to it's characteristics as far as timing and pulse go. After looking at the timing tables in the BPAA.bin file, it's no wonder the ATT needs an optimized tune. From the looks of that timing table, GM really left alot on the table as far as performance and spooling goes. Also GM set the tune up stock to match the lower powerband of the GM-X series of turbos as it looks like fueling starts to taper off around 2500 or so. The HX40 being a wastegated turbo with a smaller exhaust housing will not experience the off idle dead zone like the ATT does and it should also pull down lower in the power band. Guys with stock trucks though should be careful of this as RPM's below 2,000 with increased cylinder pressure and fueling is where rods get shortened or bent.

Each turbo has it's plus's and minus's, but also I don't think either turbo is for everybody. The non wastegated turbo does have it's merit in an extreme towing application where it is brought up into it's power band and held there, as well as giving N/A type milage when running empty. And with it's larger non wastegated exhaust housing, it is bound to have lower backpressure while moving the same CFM of air into the turbo. Also when you go intercooled, your are changing the game entirely again. Personally I always felt an HY-35 with an intercooler would be the ticket for a 6.5, and those who have been around for AWHILE will remember that chicagotdp played with these set-ups a LONG time back. His conclusion was that the HY-35 gave better performance than the HX-35 did, and only ran about 50 degrees hotter in EGT's due to it's 9 VS 12 CM exhaust housing. Then again it all boils down to personal preference, and what your end goal is. The IMPORTANT FACT to keep in mind is, that each set-up needs to be set-up to it's application. The ATT may work great for joe, but the HX40 may be a match for bob, and on the other hand jim may need an HY-35, and tom may only need a GM-8. MATCH the set-up to EACH turbo AND combination and they should all work well.
 
robzombie, i explained the reason i went with the valve very very clearly. Please read my post again in its entirety to get your answers
 
robzombie4551 said:
Then why bother with a spool valve setup. Not bashing you just pointing out the obvious. If you were content than no further mod would have been needed or wanted.

None of us are content, we all want more out of our trucks and that is what this and other forums are supposed to be about, helping and sharing, not bashing or deceiving others into false info.

Posting vids and other data is more powerful than typed words as you can see what the results are instead of depending on trusting someones opinion.



That's what people have complained about the whole time with this turbo,and the reason you tried the spool valve setup was the lag, and in my case besides the lag and also having on average 200* higher EGTs vs. the 40 I run.

As of now I think I'm still missing something because I believe that I should be getting more than 14lbs. of boost out of the ATT.

That's why I'm testing the ATT, to see for myself what it will do and how it will perform. I would gladly live with the lag if it would tow better than the HX40 does, and I'm still testing and trying to get it to do that.

But so far I haven't been able to get it to do as well as I had hoped it would. So far the hx40 I run is better off the bottom and pulls like an animal all the way to 3,500 rpm.

Look at this vid and tell me if my truck is doing alright for an A/T with 3.42 gears, http://youtu.be/GKd6UfbHcOI

I'm sharing this with you and would like your honest opinion. I'm not asking you to run one, just want to know how you think my truck runs with this turbo and is it comparable to what your running.

The truth is the ATT is Inherently going to have more lag off the line due to it's design and that may be fine for some people and their setups. I just get sick of the people trying to say it's fine down low[below1,700 rpm] when it isn't.

I'm not bashing the ATT, it is what it is, just like the HX40II, HX40 is what it is.

I only want what most people want, an open mind to any and all improvements that may move us forward and that includes what works and what doesn't work in a particular type of truck and the way it is used.
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Hi Rob

Am i way off if i estimate a 0-60 in 11 sec, a bit hard to calculate in the vid.

Look at my vid if you like to, it does 0-100km\h in ca 9-10sec. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_yL3ogZx4c&feature=player_embedded
 
Mine was in 9 seconds, and if I read your speedo correctly it was 10 and that is pretty dam close to eachother.

It's not in your sig, what gears do you have. being a 2500 it's 4.10s right?

If we had the same gears it would be a better comparison, I can only guess that I would be 2/2.5 seconds quicker instead of 1 second faster than you if I had the same gears as you.

I will see how the ATT does in the 0-60 in my truck after checking a few more things out.

I know I won't come close to your times with The ATT because with my 3.42s the truck feels like it has an anchor holding it back off the line and leaves a smoke fest until I get to 2000rpm.
 
Are you running a tune optimized for you clone hx turbo? A different tune optimized for the ATT on your truck may make a difference in the smoke factor and spool up time.

I believe suburbank is running a stock tune not a optimized tune. So that may be a limiting factor for high rpm fuel.

It will be interesting to see if SuburBank's times go up or down with his tune. I think that 4.10 and 3.73 gears are the most common for most trucks and suburbans that are not in the light duty class, albeit 1500 series trucks running 3.42 gears for highway mileage.
 
I believe suburbank is running a stock tune not a optimized tune. So that may be a limiting factor for high rpm fuel.
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His sig says buddy three banger.

I have 6 tunes and none work below 2000 rpm, and they aren't just fuel tunes. They are in spec where I shouldn't be having the low boost problems I'm having.

This is where I lose with the ATT,[off the line] and the fact that I can't get more than 14 lbs. of boost.

That is the main reason I'm still looking for something that is holding it back.

I know the ATT will spool slow off the line due to my gears and a big nongated housing but I should be getting more boost up top,especially with the fueling I have.

Also EGTs are high so I'm looking for leaks that could limit boost and result in higher EGTs.

As warwagon says
It is simply getting used to the idea that you have a large turbo that will generate useable boost without choking the engine above 2200 RPM. Your trade off is that is does not generate a lot of boost below 1700-2000 RPM.
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I will give it another week on the truck, I plan on going to florida next week and if I can't get the ATT to work I'm going to put the HX back on until I get back
and then I have to test a precision turbo that I'm hoping to use as my primary turbo in my compound setup that I'm working on.
 
3.42's really arent a good match for racing in a big heavy pig like a burb are they? I would think 4.10's would be better for performance.

Seeing that you 2 dont have the exact same truck and tuning then I would call 1 sec kinda a wash. Some ones tranny of injection pump could be weak causing this difference.

If i was running 3.42's then i would have an HX or a wastgated turbo of some kind but this comparison shows i would be happy with the ATT with 4.10s or 4.56's
 
I think if you look at the top of his video it says with stock tune. Unless I made a mistake. Look at the top it says without tune.

Timing and fuel play a big role. And evidently so does gear ratio and tire size. Possibly your tuner could make you a chip that is optimized for the turbo. I know it isn't that hard, would be interesting to see how the 07, 08, 09 tunes run in your truck. Ask your tuner, they may be heavy for the 3.42 gears I run 4.10.
 
Seeing that you 2 dont have the exact same truck and tuning then I would call 1 sec kinda a wash.
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It's not a wash because of the gear difference, tunes would be a different story but are a small contributor I'm sure.

2/2.5 second difference is a big difference and if I had 4.10s with the HX40 I would be in 7/8 second territory, thats haulin for a heavy burb.

I'm just pointing out that for me anyways, that off the line performance is king[to get the heavy trailer rolling from a dead stop] imagine how much faster I would be with 4.10s, I tow between 2/2500 rpm where I need the power already in, not just coming in or having to drive in third gear to be at 2500/3000 rpm where the nongated turbo may have an advantage but using more fuel to stay in the boost and running 500 rpms on average more than I want to.

I know that with 3.42s it's totally different than 4.10s where you have no choice but to be at 2500 rpms on the highway.

I can tow at 70mph at 2000 rpm in O/D and be able to pull slight grades or maintain 70/75 with out dropping down to third gear.

I can tow my camper and avg. 17.5 mpg. with my 3.42s. I get 20/21 empty and it's hard to give that up with fuel so expensive.
 
DID you catch the fact that Suburbank is running a stock tune as well and you are running a high performance tune? You should ask your tuner to make you a chip.


I think most people don't tow with 3.42 gears. Low rpm and high boost equal a bad combination. I tow at 70 MPH and I am at 2368 at that speed not that much greater than your 2000 rpm. I have a manual and never have to come out of overdrive in fifth gear towing even at fancy gap in West Virginia. I towed 21000 LBS in Michigan combined weight with truck was 27800 and averaged 11 MPG towing. Not shabby at all.

Some boost is good but high boost is not good in an already high compression motor. I have a Jetta TDI that I bent the rods in by having boost and fuel to high, loaded it and guess what. Ran fine untill it started to miss, after a good run. And the TDI is a 19 to one motor.
 
I don't tow at high boost, I run at 3/4 lbs. cruising at 70/75 lbs.and 14/15 lbs. pulling an 8% grade with my egts never going over1,100* with the HX40.

As for high boost, I will happily go to 25/30 lbs. empty and still never get over 1,100 egts.
 
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