• Welcome to The Truck Stop! We see you haven't REGISTERED yet.

    Your truck knowledge is missing!
    • Registration is FREE , all we need is your birthday and email. (We don't share ANY data with ANYONE)
    • We have tons of knowledge here for your diesel truck!
    • Post your own topics and reply to existing threads to help others out!
    • NO ADS! The site is fully functional and ad free!
    CLICK HERE TO REGISTER!

    Problems registering? Click here to contact us!

    Already registered, but need a PASSWORD RESET? CLICK HERE TO RESET YOUR PASSWORD!

Attention Crew Cab Sleeper Owners!

§393.76 Sleeper berths.
(c) Exit from the berth. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (c)(2) of this section, there must be a direct and ready means of exit from a sleeper berth into the driver's seat or compartment. If the sleeper berth was installed on or after January 1, 1963, the exit must be a doorway or opening at least 18 inches high and 36 inches wide.
Click to expand...
I guess I'm gonna have to go measure the rear window opening. I didn't think it was that big. :confused5:
 
I wonder if a topper would be a legal sleeper with a bumper pull trailer. The regs say 75 x24x24, it doesn't say how it has to be orientated.
 
I don't think toppers are legal. It seems to me I read something on a Q&A about that.

There are pickup sleepers that sit on the bed that are legal. Check Cowtown Sleepers.

http://www.cowtownsleepers.com/

Many sleepers will work on the 4500/5500 trucks. Check with the sleeper manufacturers.

This is the crewcab sleeper that was in the other post on here that was NOT approved by DOT. I understand that the 4500/5500 CC sleeper was approved however.

http://www.crewcabsleeper.com/
 
SFC Cobb said:
I don't think toppers are legal. It seems to me I read something on a Q&A about that.

There are pickup sleepers that sit on the bed that are legal. Check Cowtown Sleepers.

http://www.cowtownsleepers.com/
Click to expand...

I've heard that too. But if that's the case it's all a bunch of bureaucratic bull-s**t. Why is it that the above sleepers from Cowtown Sleepers are legal but sleeping inside a bed topper is not?

A topper on a short bed extended cab 2500HD would more than meet the dimensional and exit requirements set forth by DOT, especially if the cab's rear window is removed and an air seal is installed similar to those used by Cowtown Sleepers; on a long bed truck it would have even more room. http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.asp?section=393.76

So if you installed a DOT legal mattress and safety belts, why wouldn't that meet DOT requirements for a sleeper? As a matter of fact, most people with sleeping accommodations inside a topper wouldn't be driving while sleeping anyways, so why should they even be required to have safety belts in there?

The requirements should be set so that a driver can have adequate restful sleep, which a topper/sleeper can very well provide as long as you have an adequate mattress and ventilation. By the same reasoning, why shouldn't it be allowed to sleep inside an RV travel trailer, 5th wheel or slide-in camper, as long as you are stopped?

This is all typical government red tape created to restrict your choices and generate more cash in the form of fines. :cuss:
 
Ray

First of all if you are using a pickup in a commericial business you would be using the bed for cargo or a hitch and couldn't sleep there. If it is a shortbed truck you would not be hired by a transport company because they don't allow shortbed trucks to tow 5th wheel trailers.

This said your arguments are a moot point. Sleeping in anything except a DOT sleeper is not allowed by DOT regs. Simple as that.
 
Sarge, I am not arguing with you at all. I have no doubt that you know a hell of a lot more than I do about this. I am simply pointing out how ridiculous these interpretations seem to be. (Although I have not seen anything in the regulation itself that prohibits sleeping in the back of a pickup truck [I may not have read far enough :)], I have no doubt that there is a bureaucratic "interpretation" somewhere that says so.)

SFC Cobb said:
Ray

First of all if you are using a pickup in a commercial business you would be using the bed for cargo or a hitch and couldn't sleep there. You could if you are towing a "bumper-pull" trailer. You could use the back seat area for storage or install a raised platform that would allow storage under the bed similar to some of the sleeper boxes sold by Cowtown Sleepers. If it is a shortbed truck you would not be hired by a transport company because they don't allow shortbed trucks to tow 5th wheel trailers. There are companies that still allow the use of a short bed pickup (Talk to "Haulin RV", he tows full-time and drives a Dodge Mega Cab short Bed). My point is not to argue for towing with a short bed truck, but merely to point out how ridiculous these interpretations are.

This said your arguments are a moot point. Sleeping in anything except a DOT sleeper is not allowed by DOT regs. Simple as that. I understand your point. Still, unrealistic bureaucratic bull-s**t that only serves to restrict your choices and generate revenue for the government.
Click to expand...
:cheers2:​
 
SFC Cobb said:
Ray

First of all if you are using a pickup in a commericial business you would be using the bed for cargo or a hitch and couldn't sleep there. If it is a shortbed truck you would not be hired by a transport company because they don't allow shortbed trucks to tow 5th wheel trailers.

This said your arguments are a moot point. Sleeping in anything except a DOT sleeper is not allowed by DOT regs. Simple as that.
Click to expand...

Hmmm.....I have a $77,000 Carriage behind my short bed truck right now going to a dealer inKyle, Tx. Also the dot doesn't approve anything the just make the rules. Double Eagle, Roadmaster and so on make sleeper that are dot compliant. As long as your "sleeper" meets the requirements there is nothing wrong with it. I know of a couple that have done the front seat removal and followed the rules and are approved by both there companies and Indiana Dot.
 
cgreen said:
You maybe right, but Cow-town sleepers advertise that there's are legal with the rear window entrance. I''l try to find the regulation. :yesnod:
Click to expand...


I think a crafty inspector could get on this:

(c) Exit from the berth. (1) Except as
provided in paragraph (c)(2) of this section,
there must be a direct and ready
means of exit from a sleeper berth into
the driver’s seat or compartment. If
the sleeper berth was installed on or
after January 1, 1963, the exit must be
a doorway or opening at least 18 inches
high and 36 inches wide. If the sleeper
berth was installed before January 1,
1963, the exit must have sufficient area
to contain an ellipse having a major
axis of 24 inches and a minor axis of 16
inches.




The only direct access with the cowtown is the rear window which is not 18".
 
haulin rv said:
I think a crafty inspector could get on this:

(c) Exit from the berth. (1) Except as
provided in paragraph (c)(2) of this section,
there must be a direct and ready
means of exit from a sleeper berth into
the driver’s seat or compartment. If
the sleeper berth was installed on or
after January 1, 1963, the exit must be
a doorway or opening at least 18 inches
high and 36 inches wide. If the sleeper
berth was installed before January 1,
1963, the exit must have sufficient area
to contain an ellipse having a major
axis of 24 inches and a minor axis of 16
inches.




The only direct access with the cowtown is the rear window which is not 18".
Click to expand...

That's the problem, if they want to find something to write you up for, they will. They will interpret the rules however they want to according to how the officer feels that day. I was given a ticket for being 2 hours behind on my logs during a trip that never went over 100 air miles from home and I had not worked the previous day. The rule book says as long as you have your logs caught up until midnight of the previous day, you will be given the opportunity to make them up, but this guy said "That book doesn't tell me what I can and can't write a ticket for."
 
cgreen said:
That's the problem, if they want to find something to write you up for, they will. They will interpret the rules however they want to according to how the officer feels that day. I was given a ticket for being 2 hours behind on my logs during a trip that never went over 100 air miles from home and I had not worked the previous day. The rule book says as long as you have your logs caught up until midnight of the previous day, you will be given the opportunity to make them up, but this guy said "That book doesn't tell me what I can and can't write a ticket for."
Click to expand...

Its really a shame, in the end they are forcing driver to cheat more and rest less. Instead of grabbing a spot in a rest area and sleeping you now have to find a place to hide and get a nap. And lets face the facts the industry doesn't really pay enough to justify going to double eagle and dropping 10g plus on a sleeper.
 
Ray

I apologize for now being more clear. I didn't say you were arguing. What I said was that the points of you discussion were moot since shortbed trucks are not used in commercial transport.

There may a very unusual exception but all of the transport companies that I am familiar with and I have checked with a vast majority of them do not lease vehicles with shortbeds and slider hitches. Based on that and that all other pickup commercial work requires a hitch in the bed or that cargo be hauled there the use of the bed for a sleeper is a moot point.

The DOT regs were written before pickups and medium duty trucks became so widespread in use. DOT wrote the regs to fit big trucks with sleepers. The key point of all the regs is that you have to be out of the cab of the truck, not in the front seat on either side. The back seats do not meet the size requirements of the regs so that is out. The aforementioned sleeper does not meet the requirements.

There is a Q&A section that DOT/FMCSA has responded to that answers many of these questions that are being discussed. Myself and several others on some hotshot forums have search and discussed the regs and questioned the DOT on using the pickup seat. The answer is that it is not legal.

One person says they have a cerificate for using the front seat being removed with a bed. If he has a DOT certificate then it is legal. No certificate from the DOT and none of them are legal. DOT/FMSCA DOES HAVE TO APPROVE ANYTHING THAT GOES ON A COMMERCIAL TRUCK THAT IS COVERED BY A REGULATION INCLUDING SLEEPERS.
 
SFC Cobb said:
Ray

I apologize for now being more clear. I didn't say you were arguing. What I said was that the points of you discussion were moot since shortbed trucks are not used in commercial transport.

No apologies needed. I understand your point that most commercial transport companies don't accept a short bed truck. Again my point about a short bed truck is that a bed inside a typical topper in a short bed truck can meet DOT size and exit requirements, not that I am necessarily advocating the use of a short bed truck. However, these fact don't preclude someone from using a short bed truck while towing a "bumper pull" trailer commercially for their own private company under their own authority.

The bed on my short bed truck is 77 inches long inside, so it is definitely long enough and I can certainly set up sleeping accommodations inside that would meet the 75" x 24" X 24" dimensional requirements. A long bed truck would have even more room. If I can comfortably sleep in there while I'm out camping, why is it that I can't get approval to sleep there if I'm towing commercially, other than a bias against pickups. So my point really is not a moot point.

There may a very unusual exception but all of the transport companies that I am familiar with and I have checked with a vast majority of them do not lease vehicles with shortbeds and slider hitches. Based on that and that all other pickup commercial work requires a hitch in the bed or that cargo be hauled there the use of the bed for a sleeper is a moot point.

Again, one does not necessarily have to be leased to a typical transport company to be able to tow commercially. A private towing company wouldn't necessarily require a 5th wheel hitch to be able to tow a "bumper pull" trailer. And a hitch in the bed is not a DOT requirement.

The DOT regs were written before pickups and medium duty trucks became so widespread in use. DOT wrote the regs to fit big trucks with sleepers. The key point of all the regs is that you have to be out of the cab of the truck, not in the front seat on either side. The back seats do not meet the size requirements of the regs so that is out. The aforementioned sleeper does not meet the requirements.

I am not advocating the above mentioned sleeper in the rear seat compartment; I am talking about being able to sleep LEGALLY inside a topper that meets all the size, mattress and exit requirements, etc.

I know of instances where some DOT officers do NOT like pickup trucks towing commercially and they will scrutinize them even more so than they would a big rig, in many instances writing BS tickets that normally would not be issued.

By definition, sleeping inside a topper, you are out of the cab, and if the dimensions, mattress, exits, etc. meet the requirements, they should be able to get DOT approval. But apparently, according to your research, they cannot get approved. So therefore, this is discrimination against pickup trucks.

There is a Q&A section that DOT/FMCSA has responded to that answers many of these questions that are being discussed. Myself and several others on some hotshot forums have search and discussed the regs and questioned the DOT on using the pickup seat. The answer is that it is not legal.

I am not advocating using a pickup seat for sleeping.

One person says they have a certificate for using the front seat being removed with a bed. If he has a DOT certificate then it is legal. No certificate from the DOT and none of them are legal. DOT/FMSCA DOES HAVE TO APPROVE ANYTHING THAT GOES ON A COMMERCIAL TRUCK THAT IS COVERED BY A REGULATION INCLUDING SLEEPERS.

I don't doubt at all what you are saying, but it still sucks that they are so biased against pickup trucks even though all the dimensions would be correct.
Click to expand...

SFC Cobb said:
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...?rule_toc=762&section=393.76&section_toc=1906
Click to expand...

Yes, I have read this section several times and still don't see why sleeping inside a pickup topper that would meet all the dimensions, mattress and exit requirements, while stopped at a truck stop or rest area should not be able to get DOT approval, other than the fact that they are biased against pickup trucks. :confused5:
 
Ray

As I stated somewhere here, just sleep in your pickup bed but do not log sleeper time. Just log off duty for 10 hours. It would be best to stay at a truck stop or somewhere other than rest areas, especially rest areas close to scales or those known to be places where DOT checks. Sleep in the trailer if you want. Carry a tent and pitch it. As long as you log off duty they really can't say anything unless they actually catch you doing it.

Also, don't log off duty time at a rest area. Log it in a city.
 
SFC Cobb said:
Ray

As I stated somewhere here, just sleep in your pickup bed but do not log sleeper time. Just log off duty for 10 hours. It would be best to stay at a truck stop or somewhere other than rest areas, especially rest areas close to scales or those known to be places where DOT checks. Sleep in the trailer if you want. Carry a tent and pitch it. As long as you log off duty they really can't say anything unless they actually catch you doing it.

Also, don't log off duty time at a rest area. Log it in a city.
Click to expand...

I fully appreciate your comments and suggestions. I really do.

Yes, that's what many drivers are doing. But why should one need to be worried about being "caught" for sleeping in accommodations that are otherwise perfectly adequate for resting, except that DOT doesn't approve for some bureaucratic reason.

As "Haulin RV" wrote,
haulin rv said:
Its really a shame, in the end they are forcing driver to cheat more and rest less. Instead of grabbing a spot in a rest area and sleeping you now have to find a place to hide and get a nap. And lets face the facts the industry doesn't really pay enough to justify going to double eagle and dropping 10g plus on a sleeper.
Click to expand...
In today's economy, they should be looking for ways to make the business less expensive for the "little guy", while still maintaining safety. But instead, from what I can determine, their ultimate goal seems to be to drive pickups out of the business and fill their coffers with money from BS tickets in the process.
 
SFC Cobb said:
There may a very unusual exception but all of the transport companies that I am familiar with and I have checked with a vast majority of them do not lease vehicles with shortbeds and slider hitches.

Its not a very unusual exception, I haul for one of the largest rv transport companies and we allow short beds. Many small companies do to and also one the largest Canadian companies do to.



DOT/FMSCA DOES HAVE TO APPROVE ANYTHING THAT GOES ON A COMMERCIAL TRUCK THAT IS COVERED BY A REGULATION INCLUDING SLEEPERS.

That is 100% wrong, they make a regulation and you must follow it to be in compliance. For example the sleeper company Double Eagle who builds anything from small 32" to 160" 100k monster sleepers does not get anything in writing from the feds about being dot approved. Them being approved is only based on the fact they follow the guidelines and build sleeper to be in compliance with the regulations.
Click to expand...

Any doubts? Call them or a fed dot office. This is why the CCS will never be legal, they don't give out written approvals.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top