A story and a question

[vdb11]

Hello all, I hope you are all enjoying the holiday season!

Yesterday I took my truck on I guess what I consider its maiden voyage. I rarely go anywhere so the truck is always doing stop and go short trips. Anyways I volunteered to go get my grandmother in Crawford County, PA, and while I was harassed about wanting to take my rattling regular cab, I did it anyway.

I filled up in the morning, and added 8 oz of 2 cycle oil, which isn't as much as I could have added but its all I had with me. I thought it did seem to quiet the truck down some. I know have 438 miles on the trip clock and still have not hit the first orange line, so I am impressed with my mileage on the highway (34 gal tank).

Anyways it was nearly all highway (I-80 and 79), but I did put probably close to 20 miles in 4-Hi on the trip as my grandmother lives on back roads and there is a lot more snow there than there is here! The truck literally ran all day, from 6:30 to 5:15. I had it shut off once for at most 5 minutes. It ran like a champ, temp never moved off 180, oil pressure was 35 the entire way, so all good there

Now for the negatives.

I spent all of Tuesday and Wednesday morning cleaning up my battery/starter connections. I have been having a cold start problem, the batteries just weren't turning the motor over fast enough to fire.

I had the inner fender out, and cleaned up the connections to the starter solenoid, and I could swear I tightened them down real well. I did however break the stud that held on the small purple wire coming from the cab.

I traced it back and found it to be the clutch depress switch wire. However there were enough threads on the stud to get a nut partway on and another screw to hold that wire on, and it seemed to be pretty tight. I also welded the starter bracket, which I found was broken in half.

Lastly, I shined up all of the battery cable ends and installed a battery cutoff switch on the second battery (pass. side) with just a knob that turns all the way out to cut power.

While I was doing all this I had the batteries outside so I could test them. It wasn't a very cold day unfortunately, but it was probably 30 at the most.

According to the multimeter, they hardly dropped any voltage throughout the day, so I thought they were good (about 12.5 volts all day). On the trip yesterday, I shut the truck off to fill it up, and when I went to start it, the batteries couldn't turn the motor over, and the same thing happened up at my grandmother's after driving 200 miles.

The volt gauge in the cab read approx 15 volts the whole way.

Before I did all of this, I had a problem with the truck starting after sitting in the cold for a while (couple days) but would start fine after being run and sitting for less than two days.

Now, it could run all day, and the batteries will not turn the motor over the second you shut it off. Anything I could have messed up??? The alt seems to be working, I will test it soon.

I will have the fender off again to install my Bosch GPs over my break so I can check all that out again. Is there something I can be checking? I don't think I have a battery drain, besides what is normal plus the low power used by the EGT gauge.

Any thoughts???

I hope you are all enjoying some time with family and friends!

 

[JiFaire]

Merry Christmas! I suggest you do the Battery Post Modification, found in the 6.5 Tech Library... it solves lots of issues, and eliminates a lot of guesswork.

6.5 Technical Library

Pay special attention to the dual connection on the passenger-side battery.. there is a little copper doughnut in there that causes all kinds of issues.

I'm not sure what you are meaning by 'battery cutoff switch' on the pasenger-side battery. However, if I were a betting man, I'd guess that's contributing to your woes...

 

[Turbine Doc]

Merry Christmas to you & yours, have a run through the Tech reference area as Jim suggests pay particular attn to the gnd thread, some of it will be n/a to yours since you have mech IP vs the electronic DS4.

Depending on type of EGT gauge you have there should be no current draw as the K thermocouple is self powering direct to the EGT meter mV current generated by Chromel Alumel used in the wire & thermocouple http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermocouple some will have amplifiers that draw a minimal current.

Using a volt meter to determine battery health does not give you the load carry capability of the battery, it only gives state of the surface charge on the battery, to test the battery you need a load cell test.

I recommend every 6.5 owner have a load tester it eliminates a lot of guesswork and negates need to carry battery to a part store for battery test, actually with all of today's vehicles being "fly by wire" puter controlled every vehicle owner should have one.

In addition to slow cranking issues you may be having glow issues, start with a load check and then we'll move on to glow diagnostics.

 

[buddy]

Holding voltage and having cranking amps are quite different, so definately load test them like TD said. The alternator supplies power while engine is running, the batteries are mainly just for cranking. If alternator really is outputting 15V then it could be because the batteries are not holding the charge since it should only be 14V steady.

 

[vdb11]

Thank you for the holiday wishes!! You guys are very helpful, I will check out the tech library asap. I had a feeling that just testing the voltage wasn't telling the whole story since the cranking amps are what's really important. Also, to JiFaire, the battery cut-off is just a halved connection with a knob in the middle that holds them together. I know there are many different kinds but mine looks like this..

I hope that showed up. Anyways, a little copper donut? I never saw one on my connections but I have changed my connections some since I got it and can't remember, I will look through the tech library.

Turbine Doc, thank you for the picture! I will try to get one of those tools soon, or I may just take the batteries in, depends on what I can find. Yes I will need to check the glow system as well. With strong batteries I have never had a cold start problem but its better to be safe than sorry. In fact I have a box of 8 new Bosch Duraterms sitting beside me waiting to be installed once this issue is resolved.

And buddy, now that you say something, I did notice that the volt reading was a little high on the trip at 15. I was not sure what was normal but now that you say 14 I am remembering that right in the middle was where the gauge normally stayed, but was running 15V on this trip, excellent point!! Thank you all guys!! I will keep you updated!

 

[vdb11]

Also, to Turbine Doc, I have a Glowshift EGT gauge, which had me (per instructions) provide a hard wired connection for "low power", which from what I understand merely remembers the color I had the gauge on the last time the truck was running, which I can disconnect and it wouldn't bother me. The gauge itself needs power though to function, unlike my boost gauge which is mechanical, so I have them on a separate switch from all other lights.

 

[great white]

Sounds like alternator and charging system is good, batteries going bad.

Put 'em on a charger overnight (2 amp or lower is best) and load test 'em like everyone else has suggested.

How did yo u get the truck stared if the batteries wouldn't turn it over? Jump start? If it started fine on a jump start, the batteries are most likely old and sulfated. Time for a new pair.

Merry Christmas.

 

[dms4x4]

Sounds like alternator and charging system is good, batteries going bad.............. Time for a new pair.

Merry Christmas.

Emphasis on "pair".

Merry Christmas

 

[bison]

Thank you for the holiday wishes!! You guys are very helpful, I will check out the tech library asap. I had a feeling that just testing the voltage wasn't telling the whole story since the cranking amps are what's really important. Also, to JiFaire, the battery cut-off is just a halved connection with a knob in the middle that holds them together. I know there are many different kinds but mine looks like this..

I hope that showed up. Anyways, a little copper donut? I never saw one on my connections but I have changed my connections some since I got it and can't remember, I will look through the tech library.

Turbine Doc, thank you for the picture! I will try to get one of those tools soon, or I may just take the batteries in, depends on what I can find. Yes I will need to check the glow system as well. With strong batteries I have never had a cold start problem but its better to be safe than sorry. In fact I have a box of 8 new Bosch Duraterms sitting beside me waiting to be installed once this issue is resolved.

And buddy, now that you say something, I did notice that the volt reading was a little high on the trip at 15. I was not sure what was normal but now that you say 14 I am remembering that right in the middle was where the gauge normally stayed, but was running 15V on this trip, excellent point!! Thank you all guys!! I will keep you updated!

Maybe that new batt disconnect switch isn't up to par.

 

[vdb11]

Yes I jump started it. Yeah, as soon as the truck gets a good jump, the thing fires right up, which led me to believe it was the batteries as well. I will try to get them load tested very soon. If I do get a battery, I will definitely get both, considering either the Everstarts or Exides, I have done some reading on that as well.

Bison, I was thinking the same thing as well. It didn't seem to help the cold start problem after setting for a period of time even when disconnected which points at the batteries as well. It was just a cheap one from HF that I picked up when getting my compression tester, and I always questioned its worth to me. But! I just thought of something else! I was wondering why this problem got worse all of a sudden, which made me worry that I screwed something up instead of degrading batteries. HOWEVER, when cleaning up all of the connections before the trip I put the battery cutoff on the PASS. side battery instead of the driver's side which I had it on before, therefore crippling the cranking power of BOTH batteries rather than one, when I thought I was "protecting" them. Sound like a good theory/epiphany??

Thank you, I had a great Christmas, Santa gave me an Airlift 5000 lb air suspension kit Anyways, have a very Merry Christmas, what is left of it, and a Happy New Year!!!

 

[JiFaire]

If you're curious about whether your new battery cutoff switch is the issue, grab a set of booster cables and hook them up to your batteries ... hook the driver's side to the passenger side, just like you're boosting with another vehicle.

If it works, your switch is probably the issue.

 

[vdb11]

That's a good idea, I had never thought of doing that!

 

[JiFaire]

I'm also concerned about the dual-cable connection on your passenger-side battery... what you got there is the exact symptoms I had when that connection went south on me. If your batteries are pooped, a boost won't make a night-and-day difference. If that connection is the issue, then it will.

That connection (with the little copper doughnut between the cables) is always problematic. The batter-post mod in the 6.5 tech library is really the best solution.

 

[vdb11]

Well, I never did see a copper donut on mine, maybe it was lost, I have no clue. When I did my connections a while ago, I cut all the rubber off around the flat disk part of the cable end so that the two cables get the greatest contact. Also, I looked through the tech library, when you say the battery post mod are you referring to the one that has you replace the standard battery studs with a bolt and nut to clamp down the battery cables??

 

[ak diesel driver]

yes

 

[NVW]

If you're curious about whether your new battery cutoff switch is the issue, grab a set of booster cables and hook them up to your batteries ... hook the driver's side to the passenger side, just like you're boosting with another vehicle.

If it works, your switch is probably the issue.

That would work if the disconnect was still on the drivers battery, it sounds like it is now on the pass battery cable.

What is the amp rating of the disconnect?

 

[MBBOB]

I had a somewhat similar issue with the truck starting fine cold , but after hot would crank slow without firing. If you let it sit for a while ( long enough for the flatbed to get there) it fired right up. After chasing the problem for while, turned out to be one weak cell in one battery that caused a voltage drop when hot. Not enough voltage to turn computer on. Only found it after doing separate load test on each battery.

I would take the previous suggestion and charge batteries and then take them to Autozone for an individual load test. Easy and free!

I am also a Crawford County, PA boy, where does Grandma live? Mabe you pass me on the way!

 

[buddy]

Have to remove the ... from the title, so we dont get a http error

 

[JiFaire]

Have to remove the ... from the title, so we dont get a http error

Fixed ... thanks for pointing it out, Buddy!
Jim

 

[vdb11]

Ok guys, sorry about the ... I didn't realize it caused an error and that's why I wasn't able to view my thread. Sorry, I know now!

Here is an update for you:

I went to Advance and had the batteries load tested. One tested absolutely zero CCA, one of the terminals was swollen up out of the battery and indicated a bad plate I was told. The other was okay, but still low at 594 CCA. They recommended replacing both batteries (was going to do both at once anyway). After shopping around that day, I ended up coming back to Advance for the batteries. They had 800 CCA gold Autocraft batteries that would fit my battery trays. The total for them and the bolts required for terminal mod was $198.12. More than I wanted to spend but it will be worth it in the long run. They had a 3 year free replacement warranty and are pro-rated out to 84 months. I started the truck yesterday after sitting for five days, with these new batteries, terminal mods done, and new Duraterm GPs and it fired right up. I just left the cutoff out of the equation for this set up. I will try to find the amp capacity of the switch. It started right up again this morning after sitting overnight in the teens. Thank you for all the help!!

MBOB, I was actually in Conneaut lake! My grandmother lives near Conneautville, at the intersection of Carpenter and Airport Road. I went to see my grandfather as well, who lives in Conneaut Lake. I don't remember the road but its in the Huidekoper Bay Association ( I am not sure how its spelled), you can see the lake from where he lives. I may have been very close to you!