ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
air in system ?
-
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92 buildup and questions
- Thread starter vdb11
- Start date
vdb11
Halfmoon Detroit #2
Hmm interesting, I actually was wondering about that as I was finishing up the project since the system is slightly pressurized. Any way to rid the system of air? Run it a little bit with the cap off?
buddy
Active Member
There may be an air bleeder on top of the t-stat housing. Otherwise it will work itself out after a day or two, and youll likely have to add a half gallon or so.
vdb11
Halfmoon Detroit #2
Haha ok thank you guys!!! I was freaking myself out thinking I messed up somehow. Anyways it was crazy how fast these water pumps go out and how bad. It went bad almost instantaneously as I didn't do that much driving that day and wow I couldn't believe the play in the thing when I took it out. That disk in the back almost touched all the way around the pump and I noticed it was starting to rub on the timing cover.
So anyways getting back to the bottom end there is someone on flea bay that sells scat cranks for 300, ugh just a little bit out of reach for my budget It would either be studs or scat crank, my budget will not handle both. I am leaning towards studs since I feel like they are better addressing the issues involved in bottom end failure. As always, it is open to debate!
So anyways getting back to the bottom end there is someone on flea bay that sells scat cranks for 300, ugh just a little bit out of reach for my budget It would either be studs or scat crank, my budget will not handle both. I am leaning towards studs since I feel like they are better addressing the issues involved in bottom end failure. As always, it is open to debate!
ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
if it's not cracked already I'd do the scat
vdb11
Halfmoon Detroit #2
ugh I kinda wanna do the scat too.... I need to stop talking to you guys
Anyways I have not been able to look into the ARP main studs yet but I did find another brand that seems to be ok. I was looking a little bit on the ARP catalog as to why they are "the best" and it mentions being center ground and thread rolled after heat treatment, whereas others do this before since it is easier on machines.
The other brand I found has 190,000 psi tensile strength studs in various sizes, and they are also center ground and rolled after heat treatment. Their site says "8740 chrome moly steel aircraft quality" whereas ARPs are "far superior to aircraft quality".
Like I said, not sure on the pricing of ARP studs, anyone know the size of the studs needed?? But this other place has sets of 4 in various sizes for $18-25.
Anyways I have not been able to look into the ARP main studs yet but I did find another brand that seems to be ok. I was looking a little bit on the ARP catalog as to why they are "the best" and it mentions being center ground and thread rolled after heat treatment, whereas others do this before since it is easier on machines.
The other brand I found has 190,000 psi tensile strength studs in various sizes, and they are also center ground and rolled after heat treatment. Their site says "8740 chrome moly steel aircraft quality" whereas ARPs are "far superior to aircraft quality".
Like I said, not sure on the pricing of ARP studs, anyone know the size of the studs needed?? But this other place has sets of 4 in various sizes for $18-25.
ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
post a link
vdb11
Halfmoon Detroit #2
turbonator
Member
ugh I kinda wanna do the scat too.... I need to stop talking to you guys
Anyways I have not been able to look into the ARP main studs yet but I did find another brand that seems to be ok. I was looking a little bit on the ARP catalog as to why they are "the best" and it mentions being center ground and thread rolled after heat treatment, whereas others do this before since it is easier on machines.
The other brand I found has 190,000 psi tensile strength studs in various sizes, and they are also center ground and rolled after heat treatment. Their site says "8740 chrome moly steel aircraft quality" whereas ARPs are "far superior to aircraft quality".
Like I said, not sure on the pricing of ARP studs, anyone know the size of the studs needed?? But this other place has sets of 4 in various sizes for $18-25.
you will need to decide what thickness of girdle you are using, to know how long your studs will be.... i cant find the measurements right know, they might have been lost in the fire, but i remember that each stud was 18.00, the nuts were 12.00 and the washers were 6.50 each... i have already thought of buying a dsg girdle just to have the centre studs, and just replace the 4 outside bolts( the front and the back ) with the equivelent graded proper legnth bolts... when we did pugg, we just bought new hardened bolts and cut them to the legnth we needed.... not the best, but that was what we could (afford) do at the time...
vdb11
Halfmoon Detroit #2
Well I am not sure what the difference would be between USD and Canadian prices from ARP (unless those quotes are USD), but I would imagine they are not that much different. I am all for studding this thing but that is too much for my budget. Now here is my question, there are four bolts per main correct?? And the two outside are smaller than the insides on some years correct (what years??). If I were to stud it, should I stud all four then? Which would be 20 studs then?
I see what you mean about the DSG girdle since those are ARPs. That is perfectly fine with the measurements, maybe someone else knows, anyone??
If I can get the size I need from Milodon, I will do it, and with the money I saved, I will consider the scat crank
If not, I may do hardened bolts like you guys did turbonator. So did you guys leave them as bolts? or if they were threaded all the way couldn't you cut them off and essentially have a stud??
Thanks again guys
I see what you mean about the DSG girdle since those are ARPs. That is perfectly fine with the measurements, maybe someone else knows, anyone??
If I can get the size I need from Milodon, I will do it, and with the money I saved, I will consider the scat crank
If not, I may do hardened bolts like you guys did turbonator. So did you guys leave them as bolts? or if they were threaded all the way couldn't you cut them off and essentially have a stud??
Thanks again guys
turbonator
Member
Well I am not sure what the difference would be between USD and Canadian prices from ARP (unless those quotes are USD), but I would imagine they are not that much different. I am all for studding this thing but that is too much for my budget. Now here is my question, there are four bolts per main correct?? And the two outside are smaller than the insides on some years correct (what years??). If I were to stud it, should I stud all four then? Which would be 20 studs then?
I see what you mean about the DSG girdle since those are ARPs. That is perfectly fine with the measurements, maybe someone else knows, anyone??
If I can get the size I need from Milodon, I will do it, and with the money I saved, I will consider the scat crank
If not, I may do hardened bolts like you guys did turbonator. So did you guys leave them as bolts? or if they were threaded all the way couldn't you cut them off and essentially have a stud??
Thanks again guys
the smaller bolts started in 1996-97 i belive, we looked for the bolts with the thread all the way to the top, but we were told that hardened bolts are not done like that, only the amount of thread that is needed, then smooth shank..... we cut the bottom of the bolt, with the tap turned on the bolt first, then chased the threads after.... i dont think the whole bottom end needs to be studded, only the out side with the cracking issue.... i thought to use specially threaded stock like what is used for diff. u-bolts, but have not inquired...
turbonator
Member
the scat crank for $400.00 is not the forged steel one, just another cast one, i have been told that it is only marginally better than the factory one....
vdb11
Halfmoon Detroit #2
oh really? I will check the listing again but you are likely correct, its actually on there for 300, which seemed like a really good deal to me haha. I am not going to spend $300 to get "marginally" better haha, thanks I will check!
I had a feeling hardened bolts weren't made that way since I have never seen them. Oh well, I will see if I can figure out the size I need. Turbonator, would you guys happen to know approximately how long they are?? Let's say that is without a girdle, just studding the caps, and then I can add what length I need depending on what thickness girdle I do decide to use (if I do one).
I finally bought a 1992 service manual today, so I am excited to get that and get reading!
I had a feeling hardened bolts weren't made that way since I have never seen them. Oh well, I will see if I can figure out the size I need. Turbonator, would you guys happen to know approximately how long they are?? Let's say that is without a girdle, just studding the caps, and then I can add what length I need depending on what thickness girdle I do decide to use (if I do one).
I finally bought a 1992 service manual today, so I am excited to get that and get reading!
vdb11
Halfmoon Detroit #2
Alright so a bit of an update/bump I guess.
I did check on that crank, and sure enough it was a cast crank. The plan so far is studs and filler.
Kory got a 6.2 motor a week or so ago and he is tearing it apart this week. Hopefully this weekend I will get a chance to take a look at the bottom and and determine the size of studs I will need.
As for the rest of the truck, I am beginning to wrap my head around another potential summer project, a solid axle swap But you guys know me, I will be doing it as cheaply as possible.
I have been looking into the things I will need for stainless cooler lines, and I am looking at frozen boost (where I got my intake stuff) since they seem to have everything I will need to do the job. This is the list of things I think I will need, let me know what you think:
approx 10 feet of -10 an stainless line, (2) 45 degree line adapterrs, (2) -12 an to -10 an adaptors for cooler to lines, (2) 90 degree line adapters for end at engine block, and (2) -10 an to whatever the engine block is adapters.
Anyone know what it is in the block? 1/4, or 1/2 inch NPT?
Also they seller I had bought the manual from a ways back didn't actually have it, and he was nice about it and refunded me. I just bought one this morning so I will finally have that to read.
Summer is fast approaching and unfortunately college is getting in the way of being adequately prepared for this rebuiild, but I am getting there. And recently I have developed a large crack in my windshield and my slave cylinder is leaking, what a money pit haha. And my coolant temps are still too low, and I would think I have driven it enough to get all the air out???
Thanks guys I hope all is well.
EDIT: Anyone know where to get a cheap engine stand?? The cheapest I have found is 90 from Advance for a 1,250 lb stand. I am keeping an eye out on craigslist and pennswoods too.
I did check on that crank, and sure enough it was a cast crank. The plan so far is studs and filler.
Kory got a 6.2 motor a week or so ago and he is tearing it apart this week. Hopefully this weekend I will get a chance to take a look at the bottom and and determine the size of studs I will need.
As for the rest of the truck, I am beginning to wrap my head around another potential summer project, a solid axle swap
But you guys know me, I will be doing it as cheaply as possible.I have been looking into the things I will need for stainless cooler lines, and I am looking at frozen boost (where I got my intake stuff) since they seem to have everything I will need to do the job. This is the list of things I think I will need, let me know what you think:
approx 10 feet of -10 an stainless line, (2) 45 degree line adapterrs, (2) -12 an to -10 an adaptors for cooler to lines, (2) 90 degree line adapters for end at engine block, and (2) -10 an to whatever the engine block is adapters.
Anyone know what it is in the block? 1/4, or 1/2 inch NPT?
Also they seller I had bought the manual from a ways back didn't actually have it, and he was nice about it and refunded me. I just bought one this morning so I will finally have that to read.
Summer is fast approaching and unfortunately college is getting in the way of being adequately prepared for this rebuiild, but I am getting there. And recently I have developed a large crack in my windshield and my slave cylinder is leaking, what a money pit haha. And my coolant temps are still too low, and I would think I have driven it enough to get all the air out???
Thanks guys I hope all is well.
EDIT: Anyone know where to get a cheap engine stand?? The cheapest I have found is 90 from Advance for a 1,250 lb stand. I am keeping an eye out on craigslist and pennswoods too.
vdb11
Halfmoon Detroit #2
bump anyone know what thread goes into the block for the cooler lines??
I am also searching for a place to get metric studs as well this week. I just emailed ARP today, I might talk to Milodon tomorrow.
I am also searching for a place to get metric studs as well this week. I just emailed ARP today, I might talk to Milodon tomorrow.
buddy
Active Member
6.2 and early 6.5 were 3/8" NPT and later model 506 blocks were 1/2" NPT
vdb11
Halfmoon Detroit #2
Ok thanks buddy!!
vdb11
Halfmoon Detroit #2
Anyone have a block handy to take some quick measurements for me???
These would be for an earlier block with the 12mm main bolts inside and outside. The cap has no counterbore, correct?
I would need these measurements for the OUTSIDE bolt:
-Thickness of cap from top to bottom (where outside bolt goes through)
-Diameter of hole in cap
-Distance between top of block and beginning of threads in block
-Length of threads in block
-Total distance from top of block to bottom of hole in block
in MM would be preferred if possible but I can always convert. I already know they are M12x1.25 bolts, and I would have these other measurements, but my friend got rid of his junk 6.2 block before I could get the measurements haha.
Thanks so much guys!! Once I get this info I can send it in to ARP and they will be checking inventory for me. I wouldn't see why ARP wouldn't already have something that works. From what I have found the 5.9 cummins and our own head studs are 12mm so I would hope the right length would be possible, especially since they supply studs in the DSG kit. This way I can compare what I get back with what turbonator found.
Thanks again! My head studs and hard-blok should be arriving in a week or so!
Vance
These would be for an earlier block with the 12mm main bolts inside and outside. The cap has no counterbore, correct?
I would need these measurements for the OUTSIDE bolt:
-Thickness of cap from top to bottom (where outside bolt goes through)
-Diameter of hole in cap
-Distance between top of block and beginning of threads in block
-Length of threads in block
-Total distance from top of block to bottom of hole in block
in MM would be preferred if possible but I can always convert. I already know they are M12x1.25 bolts, and I would have these other measurements, but my friend got rid of his junk 6.2 block before I could get the measurements haha.
Thanks so much guys!! Once I get this info I can send it in to ARP and they will be checking inventory for me. I wouldn't see why ARP wouldn't already have something that works. From what I have found the 5.9 cummins and our own head studs are 12mm so I would hope the right length would be possible, especially since they supply studs in the DSG kit. This way I can compare what I get back with what turbonator found.
Thanks again! My head studs and hard-blok should be arriving in a week or so!
Vance
vdb11
Halfmoon Detroit #2
Hello again, ANOTHER update
So I was able to round up some part #s for the studs:
AU4.900-1LB: These are for the inner main bolt holes, $7.86 a piece
AU4.175-1LB: These are for the outers. They MAY be a little long, but this is the shortest ARP has on hand in what we need. If they are long, I will simply be using some iron to block them up or making a girdle. I don't have an exact price on them yet but I will know soon. It will probably be around $7.30 a piece.
300-8337: 12 point metric nuts for the studs, $44.82 for a 10-pack
200-8537: washers, $9.90 a 10-pack
Thanks to MaxPF over at the Place for the #s, turns out he did the research years ago and posted them. The prices are current though.
So we are looking at approximately $130 to stud the outer holes and $135 to do the inner holes. I am somewhat on the fence about whether or not to do both. My thoughts are what if leaving the bolts in the inners defeats the purpose of the studs? Which one would I torque first? I am going to be doing hard-blok in addition to the studs so I don't know if the inners would be necessary. I don't really wanna spend $265 on studs that we are not even sure is going to make a big difference. But swallowing the $130 is fine for me.
Considering there are probably bigger issues than the fasteners in terms of building a better bottom end in these motors, I don't think the inners would be worth it to stud, as long as leaving the bolts there doesn't somehow hinder the performance of the studs (considering GM has you torque head bolts higher than ARP tells you to torque their head studs). What do you guys think??
I would like to hear your opinions!
So I was able to round up some part #s for the studs:
AU4.900-1LB: These are for the inner main bolt holes, $7.86 a piece
AU4.175-1LB: These are for the outers. They MAY be a little long, but this is the shortest ARP has on hand in what we need. If they are long, I will simply be using some iron to block them up or making a girdle. I don't have an exact price on them yet but I will know soon. It will probably be around $7.30 a piece.
300-8337: 12 point metric nuts for the studs, $44.82 for a 10-pack
200-8537: washers, $9.90 a 10-pack
Thanks to MaxPF over at the Place for the #s, turns out he did the research years ago and posted them. The prices are current though.
So we are looking at approximately $130 to stud the outer holes and $135 to do the inner holes. I am somewhat on the fence about whether or not to do both. My thoughts are what if leaving the bolts in the inners defeats the purpose of the studs? Which one would I torque first? I am going to be doing hard-blok in addition to the studs so I don't know if the inners would be necessary. I don't really wanna spend $265 on studs that we are not even sure is going to make a big difference. But swallowing the $130 is fine for me.
Considering there are probably bigger issues than the fasteners in terms of building a better bottom end in these motors, I don't think the inners would be worth it to stud, as long as leaving the bolts there doesn't somehow hinder the performance of the studs (considering GM has you torque head bolts higher than ARP tells you to torque their head studs). What do you guys think??
I would like to hear your opinions!
turbonator
Member
Hello again, ANOTHER update
So I was able to round up some part #s for the studs:
AU4.900-1LB: These are for the inner main bolt holes, $7.86 a piece
AU4.175-1LB: These are for the outers. They MAY be a little long, but this is the shortest ARP has on hand in what we need. If they are long, I will simply be using some iron to block them up or making a girdle. I don't have an exact price on them yet but I will know soon. It will probably be around $7.30 a piece.
300-8337: 12 point metric nuts for the studs, $44.82 for a 10-pack
200-8537: washers, $9.90 a 10-pack
Thanks to MaxPF over at the Place for the #s, turns out he did the research years ago and posted them. The prices are current though.
So we are looking at approximately $130 to stud the outer holes and $135 to do the inner holes. I am somewhat on the fence about whether or not to do both. My thoughts are what if leaving the bolts in the inners defeats the purpose of the studs? Which one would I torque first? I am going to be doing hard-blok in addition to the studs so I don't know if the inners would be necessary. I don't really wanna spend $265 on studs that we are not even sure is going to make a big difference. But swallowing the $130 is fine for me.
Considering there are probably bigger issues than the fasteners in terms of building a better bottom end in these motors, I don't think the inners would be worth it to stud, as long as leaving the bolts there doesn't somehow hinder the performance of the studs (considering GM has you torque head bolts higher than ARP tells you to torque their head studs). What do you guys think??
I would like to hear your opinions!
you should only need the three outer studs on either side.... i have yet to see a crack in the 2 outside mains on these motors...... for the price of the studs, you can have the dsg girdle for the same price and just buy 2 more studs for the last 2...... as for studs, they make a difference for sure, as when they are tourqued they push down instead of pulling up.....