NVW
Well-Known Member
I wonder if a soot trap would make it worse with slower spooling.
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6.5L failed emissions smog test. Any ideas?
- Thread starter 88gmctruck
- Start date
Fwiw,mine had an opacity reading of around the 20 mark,due, it was realized later to a leaky cross over (poor turbo spool). There was no visible smoke to the naked eye . After replacing the crossover ,last 2 tests around 1%.
I also tend to err on the side of caution re filters & change the air filter especially as a matter of course when going for the test regardless of how few miles on it.
Mechanics I,ve talked to about preparing for the test whether its gas or Diesel say to change the oil (to remove contaminants from crankcase ).
I also tend to err on the side of caution re filters & change the air filter especially as a matter of course when going for the test regardless of how few miles on it.
Mechanics I,ve talked to about preparing for the test whether its gas or Diesel say to change the oil (to remove contaminants from crankcase ).
Edzzed
Member
Missy Good Wench
Wild Blonde from Cloud Mt
I would talk to Bill Heath and get him to whip up a quicky flash that will drop the fuel off so that the beast will pass.
Running the things right up on the governor and they will all smoke like hell.
You are getting full fuel but very little boost from the turbo as the engine is not under a load.
Someone needs to slap that test dude in the head. He obviously has not one clue what he is doing.
Even a Cat is not going to do a real good job of clearing up that sort of smoke.
If you can try going to a different test station and maybe get someone who knows what they are doing.
Or you could do this trick.
Fasten a little stop on the Throttle pedal arm so that the pedal can't go to full fuel.
The engine will race but will not go to the limiter.
Once the thing is "matted" the governor cuts in and out and the engine will "Pulse" fuel on fuel off and it will throw out a huge cloud of smoke each time the solenoid snaps back to full fuel.
The only way to properly test these is under a load on the dyno with the engine running in the normal operating RPM range.
There is not any time that these engines run with the governor in that ON OFF/ON OFF situation, except when some jerk mats the pedal and lets is howl.
Thats just stupid to treat an engine like that.
If that thing let loose, they will be buying you a new one, gauranteed.
So if you can stop the thing from reaching the governor with the system calling for full fuel, Game is won.
Just fiddle around with a stop on the PPS arm so that you can reach near RED LINE but do it so that the engine is basically just coasting and not hitting the limiter hard on to the point that the system "Hunts".
It will run with a clean stack.
You may get a little puff if you mat it quickly but will clear right out.
Missy
Running the things right up on the governor and they will all smoke like hell.
You are getting full fuel but very little boost from the turbo as the engine is not under a load.
Someone needs to slap that test dude in the head. He obviously has not one clue what he is doing.
Even a Cat is not going to do a real good job of clearing up that sort of smoke.
If you can try going to a different test station and maybe get someone who knows what they are doing.
Or you could do this trick.
Fasten a little stop on the Throttle pedal arm so that the pedal can't go to full fuel.
The engine will race but will not go to the limiter.
Once the thing is "matted" the governor cuts in and out and the engine will "Pulse" fuel on fuel off and it will throw out a huge cloud of smoke each time the solenoid snaps back to full fuel.
The only way to properly test these is under a load on the dyno with the engine running in the normal operating RPM range.
There is not any time that these engines run with the governor in that ON OFF/ON OFF situation, except when some jerk mats the pedal and lets is howl.
Thats just stupid to treat an engine like that.
If that thing let loose, they will be buying you a new one, gauranteed.
So if you can stop the thing from reaching the governor with the system calling for full fuel, Game is won.
Just fiddle around with a stop on the PPS arm so that you can reach near RED LINE but do it so that the engine is basically just coasting and not hitting the limiter hard on to the point that the system "Hunts".
It will run with a clean stack.
You may get a little puff if you mat it quickly but will clear right out.
Missy
Missy Good Wench
Wild Blonde from Cloud Mt
Just thinking
You can easily fasten a quicky stop on the bottom of the pedal, this will not be easily visible and will solve the issue right quick.
About half or 3/4 throttle should do it.
You can test your stop by pressing the pedal down and seeing how the engine behaves.
Set it so the engine can reach governed speed but not do the WHA WHA WHA WHA thing with all the smoke.
Good luck
You can easily fasten a quicky stop on the bottom of the pedal, this will not be easily visible and will solve the issue right quick.
About half or 3/4 throttle should do it.
You can test your stop by pressing the pedal down and seeing how the engine behaves.
Set it so the engine can reach governed speed but not do the WHA WHA WHA WHA thing with all the smoke.
Good luck
since opacity isn't visible to the naked eye, it might be to a video camera. set up a white background with the cam facing it, tail pipe between the 2, do the so called snap test they do and see if there is anything visible. if not, this won't work. if yes, proceed. do the pedal stop, film and see the difference. do each of the cheaper 'fixes' to see if there is a chance of passing.
88gmctruck
02GMCtruck
After thinking about it more, reading the WA legislative code, I think the guy didn't know what the heck he was doing.
I'm going to go throw some bio diesel in it (read that it hardly makes any soot), give it a good run then re-test at a different station.
I'm going to go throw some bio diesel in it (read that it hardly makes any soot), give it a good run then re-test at a different station.
shamus
New Member
B99 put me in the pass range from 32% before bio, seems to work!
I suggest a full understanding of the Snap Test is needed.
We don’t have dyno rollers, NOx and other complicated tests. Really we get a simple test and it is so easy vs. other more strict tests…
We have the smoke test. This is a full throttle full RPM test to look for smoke. Oil control and injection system condition is being checked.
The test starts sometime after the engine is at full RPM. This allows the smoke to clear up from accelerating the engine during the snap. You have to hold the throttle at governed max RPM for the measurement to take place. These engines should be at a steady RPM at Full Throttle with no load. Unlike the snap on-off governors gas engines have. If it is anything but a smooth RPM at WOT no load you have an issue. (Sticking governor, air in fuel, fuel starvation, bad tune.)
Yes, you snap the throttle to the floor and HOLD IT! If you go slowly the engine is still speeding up and smoking to do so. You have a freebee of time to accelerate you engine to max RPM before the test begins. At max RPM the test will take place, thus, a brick under the throttle is not going to change the max RPM no load reading. Not getting much fuel anyway with no load. You only slow down the rate that the engine accelerates.
You want the engine at full speed and no load to produce the least smoke possible by using the minimum amount of fuel at the test moment.
This is the test that is done. The engine is designed to free rev like this as it has to pass emissions like this. This is part of the reason the RPM governor is set low like it is.
Can you bust the flex plate by doing this? Yes a member on here did so. Sadly, this is the test you have to do and have zero choice on.
IMO the ATT allows you to pass the test easier as it is less restrictive at no load than the GMx is. However, I may be wrong as the GMx is producing 6psi+ boost at 2000+ RPM regardless of load. I did pass with an ATT and cat in place. I also had a tune that wouldn’t move me off the dyno rollers, and B99 Biodiesel in the tank.
If you belch a black cloud while coming up to speed, you can still pass. As long as you don’t completely coat the optical sensors from the initial smoke cloud that is. Again the test takes place after the exhaust clears up at full RPM. If you soot up the sensor it can’t calibrate after taking a reading. Sometimes you get a pass from this other times you get sent to fix it.
Even a worn out 6.5 with “I’m on fire” blowby coming out of the dipstick can pass.
The 2 cycle oil is causing you to fail. This was already pointed out.
Biodiesel will help reduce smoke. Use it without any other additives after you drain the tank of the ‘contaminated’ 2 stroke oil diesel.
Fuel system restrictions, bugs in the fuel, etc can cause you to smoke more than allowed even with B99.
The kitty can help with smoke emissions, but, I need it only for the ‘visual’ inspection.
Reducing the fuel rate in you tune can also get you to pass. Many injection pumps, DB2’s, get a yearly fuel adjustment. Reducing peak fuel in a hot tune to a stock tune also is a yearly event. You should be able to pass with a stock fuel rate, program, etc. You can also knock RPM down a few hundred RPM, however, I have had techs watch the tach during a pretest check. Not all vehicles have a tach so you are really good as long as it appears to rev up high.
If you can’t pass with a stock tune you have issues. In other words remove any tunes and put a stock chip in as tunes can overfuel and cause you to fail.
We don’t have dyno rollers, NOx and other complicated tests. Really we get a simple test and it is so easy vs. other more strict tests…
We have the smoke test. This is a full throttle full RPM test to look for smoke. Oil control and injection system condition is being checked.
The test starts sometime after the engine is at full RPM. This allows the smoke to clear up from accelerating the engine during the snap. You have to hold the throttle at governed max RPM for the measurement to take place. These engines should be at a steady RPM at Full Throttle with no load. Unlike the snap on-off governors gas engines have. If it is anything but a smooth RPM at WOT no load you have an issue. (Sticking governor, air in fuel, fuel starvation, bad tune.)
Yes, you snap the throttle to the floor and HOLD IT! If you go slowly the engine is still speeding up and smoking to do so. You have a freebee of time to accelerate you engine to max RPM before the test begins. At max RPM the test will take place, thus, a brick under the throttle is not going to change the max RPM no load reading. Not getting much fuel anyway with no load. You only slow down the rate that the engine accelerates.
You want the engine at full speed and no load to produce the least smoke possible by using the minimum amount of fuel at the test moment.
This is the test that is done. The engine is designed to free rev like this as it has to pass emissions like this. This is part of the reason the RPM governor is set low like it is.
Can you bust the flex plate by doing this? Yes a member on here did so. Sadly, this is the test you have to do and have zero choice on.
IMO the ATT allows you to pass the test easier as it is less restrictive at no load than the GMx is. However, I may be wrong as the GMx is producing 6psi+ boost at 2000+ RPM regardless of load. I did pass with an ATT and cat in place. I also had a tune that wouldn’t move me off the dyno rollers, and B99 Biodiesel in the tank.
If you belch a black cloud while coming up to speed, you can still pass. As long as you don’t completely coat the optical sensors from the initial smoke cloud that is. Again the test takes place after the exhaust clears up at full RPM. If you soot up the sensor it can’t calibrate after taking a reading. Sometimes you get a pass from this other times you get sent to fix it.
Even a worn out 6.5 with “I’m on fire” blowby coming out of the dipstick can pass.
The 2 cycle oil is causing you to fail. This was already pointed out.
Biodiesel will help reduce smoke. Use it without any other additives after you drain the tank of the ‘contaminated’ 2 stroke oil diesel.
Fuel system restrictions, bugs in the fuel, etc can cause you to smoke more than allowed even with B99.
The kitty can help with smoke emissions, but, I need it only for the ‘visual’ inspection.
Reducing the fuel rate in you tune can also get you to pass. Many injection pumps, DB2’s, get a yearly fuel adjustment. Reducing peak fuel in a hot tune to a stock tune also is a yearly event. You should be able to pass with a stock fuel rate, program, etc. You can also knock RPM down a few hundred RPM, however, I have had techs watch the tach during a pretest check. Not all vehicles have a tach so you are really good as long as it appears to rev up high.
If you can’t pass with a stock tune you have issues. In other words remove any tunes and put a stock chip in as tunes can overfuel and cause you to fail.
Edit: at Max RPM the test should take place after the exhaust has cleared up from acceleration to max RPM. The freebee is time; not RPM as the tester does not watch RPM. This is why you have to stand on the governor - to clear the exhaust after reaching max RPM. Then the test takes place of the steady state max RPM no load exhaust.
So you had better be at max RPM with the exhaust cleared up when the test looks at the exhaust smoke.
I am not sure if the trigger is a timer from seeing the floor it sign light up or seeing the acceleration puff in the sensor before it starts a timer to look for smoke.
So you had better be at max RPM with the exhaust cleared up when the test looks at the exhaust smoke.
I am not sure if the trigger is a timer from seeing the floor it sign light up or seeing the acceleration puff in the sensor before it starts a timer to look for smoke.
Edzzed
Member
I just got off the phone with Bill, I will be driving down there on March 2nd. Unless something comes up on his end or mine.
Big T
Well-Known Member
X2 on both.
Big T
Well-Known Member
I've passed CA emission twice with the ATT, Heath tune, gutted soot trap. It belches pretty good on acceleration, especially at altitude, but it passed. :hihi::thumbsup:
Big T
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but I have no idea on #s other than I passed.
88gmctruck
02GMCtruck
Welp, it passed this morning.
Sunday I changed the oil, fuel and air filters. I pumped most of the 10 gallons I put in the truck out into a can, leaving a few gallons to drive to the nearest bio station (a good 25 miles) away. I filled up with B75 (highest available this time of year) and drove it while and tested.
Our testing is not designed to, both in function and by our state administrative code, designed to hold the throttle at the governor. and excerpt from it "The snap-acceleration test cycle consists of moving the accelerator pedal from normal idle as rapidly as possible to the full power position, then fully releasing the throttle so the engine returns to idle." http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=173-422-075
The problem, I now realized after the idiot tech tried to get me to hold it, is that their system for whatever reason cannot read the RPMs on my truck very well. At idle it's all over the place; as low as 100, as high as 1,400, all while not touching the idle. First snap test the computer never sees the idle, and it's gets all angry. The tech gets a manager who promptly overrides the tach signal and the test was conducted manually. Passed at 34%. I'm sure it would have passed lower had there not been about 8 gallons of #2/powerservice/2-cycle in my tank.
I also called and talked to the testing company's regional manager. He said their test is designed to NOT hold the throttle down on the governor, and the first tech was entirely wrong.
Sunday I changed the oil, fuel and air filters. I pumped most of the 10 gallons I put in the truck out into a can, leaving a few gallons to drive to the nearest bio station (a good 25 miles) away. I filled up with B75 (highest available this time of year) and drove it while and tested.
Our testing is not designed to, both in function and by our state administrative code, designed to hold the throttle at the governor. and excerpt from it "The snap-acceleration test cycle consists of moving the accelerator pedal from normal idle as rapidly as possible to the full power position, then fully releasing the throttle so the engine returns to idle." http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=173-422-075
The problem, I now realized after the idiot tech tried to get me to hold it, is that their system for whatever reason cannot read the RPMs on my truck very well. At idle it's all over the place; as low as 100, as high as 1,400, all while not touching the idle. First snap test the computer never sees the idle, and it's gets all angry. The tech gets a manager who promptly overrides the tach signal and the test was conducted manually. Passed at 34%. I'm sure it would have passed lower had there not been about 8 gallons of #2/powerservice/2-cycle in my tank.
I also called and talked to the testing company's regional manager. He said their test is designed to NOT hold the throttle down on the governor, and the first tech was entirely wrong.
Brooklyn Tow
9 11 Never Forget
Another idiot tech who doesn't know how to do his job..........Glad you passed.
For some reason your state does not follow the proper SAE J1667 procedure or is vague about 'holding the throttle on the floor for 1-4 seconds. And when and what is measured may be off from what I described...
http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/hdvip/saej1667.pdf
SNAP-ACCELERATION CYCLE—The vehicle operator shall be instructed on the proper execution of the
snap-acceleration test sequence. It is of critical importance that the vehicle operator fully understand the
proper movement of the vehicle throttle during the testing.
With the vehicle conditioned as in 5.1 and with the engine warmed-up and at low idle speed:
a. The operator shall move the throttle to the fully open position as rapidly as possible.
b. The operator shall hold the throttle in the fully open position until the time the engine reaches its
maximum governed speed, plus an additional 1 to 4 s.
c. Upon completion of the 1 to 4 s with the engine at its maximum governed speed, the operator shall
release the throttle and allow the engine to return to the low idle speed.
d. Once the engine reaches its low idle speed, the operator shall allow the engine to remain at idle for a
minimum of 5 s, but no longer than 45 s, before initiating the next snap-acceleration test cycle.
The time period at low idle allows the engine's turbocharger (if so equipped) to decelerate to its normal
speed at engine idle. This helps to reduce the smoke variability between snap-acceleration cycles.
e. Steps (a) through (d) shall be repeated as necessary to complete the preliminary snap-acceleration
cycles and the snap-acceleration test cycles described in 5.3.3 and 5.4.2.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/hdvip/saej1667.pdf
SNAP-ACCELERATION CYCLE—The vehicle operator shall be instructed on the proper execution of the
snap-acceleration test sequence. It is of critical importance that the vehicle operator fully understand the
proper movement of the vehicle throttle during the testing.
With the vehicle conditioned as in 5.1 and with the engine warmed-up and at low idle speed:
a. The operator shall move the throttle to the fully open position as rapidly as possible.
b. The operator shall hold the throttle in the fully open position until the time the engine reaches its
maximum governed speed, plus an additional 1 to 4 s.
c. Upon completion of the 1 to 4 s with the engine at its maximum governed speed, the operator shall
release the throttle and allow the engine to return to the low idle speed.
d. Once the engine reaches its low idle speed, the operator shall allow the engine to remain at idle for a
minimum of 5 s, but no longer than 45 s, before initiating the next snap-acceleration test cycle.
The time period at low idle allows the engine's turbocharger (if so equipped) to decelerate to its normal
speed at engine idle. This helps to reduce the smoke variability between snap-acceleration cycles.
e. Steps (a) through (d) shall be repeated as necessary to complete the preliminary snap-acceleration
cycles and the snap-acceleration test cycles described in 5.3.3 and 5.4.2.
- Staff
- #40
1 to 4 seconds is forever. I don't have to take any test by me but if I did and some idiot told me I had to stand on my unloaded throttle and run the risk of a rod through the block, I do believe I would be departing in a hurry with their info in hand to provide to the local authorities and start the extreme protest/appeal process...:mad2: NFW do I do that unless I'm on rollers.
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