(12/09/08) The Inagural Weekly Poll - Do you support the GM Bailout?

[Randy_the_Hack]

OK... here goes... do you support the GM Bailout?

 

[Clark20ry]

You know thats what bankruptcy is for. This bail out comes with socialism and government run auto industry.... NO!!!! there are other options...

 

[Pepperidge]

I voted # 5

but # 8 was very tempting...):h

 

[Randy_the_Hack]

I voted # 5

but # 8 was very tempting...):h

Well, it did seem relevant considering the news coverage the past two weeks... yeesh!

 

[btfarm]

I voted # 5

but # 8 was very tempting...):h

Same here
Randy, does this mean you're gonna be the poll police?):h
On edit, no I see you're being given the poll HMFIC title...Poetic justice!

 

[Sparky8370]

I believe that it won't be a bailout, but a loan instead. I could be wrong. That I'm not so much opposed to, but there should be terms. And I believe the terms in 5 is a good start, so that's what I voted. And along with the over paid workers, something needs to be done on the administrative level too. I say set up a tiered level compensation plan for them, with the highest being the CEO. I def don't think they need more than a million or two at best, and in this time period until the money is paid back to the tax payers- not more than a half a million if they can turn it around. If they can't show any progress, that should be represented in their pay or lack there of.

 

[12ga diesel]

I picked #1 since what the automakers are asking for is a loan, not a bailout. I am not for a bailout, but a loan that would be repaid, with interest, I would be for. I do believe the Union contracts need to be rewriten as well. But don't think they need to file for Ch. 11 to get the loan. We need the automakers in this country IMO, and to let them go the way of Dido Bird is not the way to go.

 

[bighawg]

I voted for number five.

Here's the biggest problem I have with the bailout of any business.

I do not think it is a job of the Federal Government to take my money by force and redistribute that money to these companies. And I do mean by force, if you don't pay they will throw your ass in prison.

Our founding fathers would be absolutely horrified by the tyrannical monster that the Federal Government has become.

Think what you will but this is socialism.

Capitalism is the answer, let the free market place sort it out. Yeah it's going to be ugly for some but it is the best way.

 

[JiFaire]

I voted #5 also... I think they should sort it out without government bailouts, but I'm still sort of miffed that the government coughed up billions with no questions to stock market institutions, financial institutions, and other rich guys speculating on things that just cost us money (as in drive up the cost of diesel), ...

... and yet they get all pissy about the automakers not coming down on public transit? I think, for the millions of jobs and spin-off jobs involved, they couldn't afford to let the automakers sink.

PS - nice first poll, Randy!!!!

 

[Z79outlaw]

Voted #7 i think we owe them 1 last chance, as I've stated before this money isnt a new bailout it'll be a chunk from the wallstreet bailout, or it'll come from some stupid fund that was designed to promote green research. thats what noone understand, everyones like were giving out more money, no actually were lending them money that we were going going to loan to wall street the same wall street that screwed most of us over. I saw this coming and bought stock in GM also, I figure if the goverment is going to give away money to wall street, Im going to hold out my hand to and so far Im up 60%

 

[496 BB]

Bout damn time RANDY! You and I been fighting for WEEKS to get a poll over there!

I voted HELL NO. I think its complete BS that you would give a loan or anything else for that matter to a Co. just because they made bad decisions. Isnt that the whole point of owning a business? To make money? If you dont make it you go out of business. Plain and simple. I feel for the people loosing their jobs but in reality they are a big part of the problem. If they didnt make so damn much and didnt play the union card all the time they wouldnt be where they are now. They got to where they are now by way of taking everything for granted and now its finally caught up with them. Big deal your laid off. Welcome to consequences. What irritates the hell out of me is that I know noone will ever give me a bailout/loan because I dont employ a shitload of people. Thats just saying to me that we will help any big business and piss on you little ones. And once you start helping them its going to be helping everyone. Just another prime example of never any incentive to do better with anything. Just like welfare...more kids more money. Should be opposite. Keep your legs shut cause you cant afford the one you got!

Every Co. should be held personally responsible for what their actions are just like individuals have to. And besides all that shit everyone knows damn good and well they are going to blow thru that money so damn fast and not be able to repay that its US getting the shaft in the end. They will never make good on it and you think otherwise your nuts. Look at their track records. Its the ECONOMY that needs fixed first. If you give them all this money and the economy still sucks then explain to me why you think everyones just going to go buy a new damn car? THEY ARENT. People are hurting now! And they want to spend money on this bullshit?! Start with the failing economy and gain trust in the rest of the world first. Let them go under. I could care less. Thats what they need to learn a lesson. But Im sure it wont happen cause everyone always has a crutch so they dont fall and learn.

Ok rant over...sorry just irritated at where my hard earned money goes.

 

[TIM Z]

DO What ever is necessary to keep the BIG 3 in business. Our economy and Jobs EVERYWHERE Depend on it!! But also Get rid of all the Rich CEO's!

BTW, Screw the banks, they should have been left to rot. Who cares if a bank goes out of business?

If the big 3 go down so will America

Ban The Fricken Imports!!!!!!

 

[Randy_the_Hack]

Well, I for one think it's Congress that needs to be shot here. They're the ones that set stupid CAFE standards and force things like a million blends of fuel and set arbitrary emissions standards... and need we bring up the moronic E85 fuel fiasco? What can the Big 3 do about it? Bend over, spend the money, lose the money, and take it. Then when everything goes belly up and the Big 3 go to the primary source of the pain, we wonder why they're asking for money.

But... it is what it is... if Toyota and Honda and Nissan and the others had a legacy workforce to deal with here in the US and the UAW, then they'd be in the same pickle as the Big 3. FYI, Toyota is canning all of their temp workers here in Georgetown and taking away vacation days from their full time workers next year... so it's not like they're getting away Scott free.

In this arena, nobody is going to hold Congress accountable. That's where we all lose.

 

[Randy_the_Hack]

Same here
Randy, does this mean you're gonna be the poll police?):h
On edit, no I see you're being given the poll HMFIC title...Poetic justice!

Yep... that's me! Ain't it cool? ):h

 

[RayMich]

I agree that the auto companies could have done things differently years ago and perhaps they might be in a better position to weather this recession. That's why I voted that they should get these LOANS, but the CEO and his MINIONS MUST GO!

The auto companies are NOT asking for a bailout. They are asking for A LOAN.

Even if they had done everything PERFECTLY according to what everyone here has been saying, the problem is that there is NO money available for them to stay in business. If there is no money to run the business ANY business will go under.

Automakers have been able to raise money by selling shares of stock and by borrowing money on an on-going basis as a part of doing business. They have done this since the auto industry came to existence. They sell stock and borrow money for their on-going operations in order to pay wages, utilities, suppliers, etc. and to set aside for future contingencies. When the vehicles are sold and the dealers pay their bills, then the auto companies pay back those loans. Additionally, in order to finance their on-going R&D and plant modernizations, they again need to sell stock and borrow money, which again is paid back when the cars and trucks are sold and the dealers pay their bill. Stockholders get rewarded via dividend payments and lenders get interest. Eventually everyone gets their money and everyone is happy.

I can tell you that General Motors has NEVER defaulted on a loan. They have alway been able to set aside money to cover them during the cyclical business down turns. However, this is NOT your typical down turn. Their multi-billion dollar "rainy day" funds are now DRY. If they don't get the necessary capital to stay in business, no amount of planning or reorganizing will keep them afloat.

Forcing the auto companies to declare bankruptcy will make things a hell of a lot worse. If the money is not available from the normal financial markets, and the Federal Government REFUSES to lend them that money, so they can weather this storm, Chapter 11 will NOT be an option. At that point, the only alternative will be eventual LIQUIDATION.

NO MONEY = NO BUSINESS - There is no way around it.

The problem we are facing is that there is NO money available to be borrowed and since the credit crunch has adversely affected sales, the value of a share of stock is now in the dumps and there is no one wanting to invest in these companies, since they cannot pay any dividends to entice investments.

The on-going credit crisis (Which by-the-way was NOT caused by the auto companies, or the UAW for that matter) was caused by CONGRESS! And we, the taxpayers, collectively allowed it to happen. We allowed it to the point that we even went and re-elected the same scoundrels that caused this mess in the first place. Not only that, but we gave them even MORE power by electing more of them. So WE also share some of the blame. Maybe not each of us individually, because the majority of the people posting here did NOT vote for those traitors, but nevertheless, our country collectively voted them to power.

Had it not been for the fact that the credit and equity markets have completely DRIED UP, the auto companies would STILL be able to raise the needed funds by short and long-term borrowing and selling the shares of stock in order to raise the money for their on-going capital needs, just like they have always done. BUT THERE IS NO MONEY AVAILABLE NOW. The only money available NOW is from the Federal Government. Therefore, the auto companies have NO OTHER SOURCE OF FUNDS other than the federal government.

Again, the auto companies have NOT asked for a bailout. They are asking for a loan from the federal government because no one has the money to lend, or is not willing to lend it.

I don't care how well you run your business, or how good your business plan might be, if no one has any money available to lend to you so that you can stay in business until you sell your product and then repay those loans, YOU WILL GO UNDER. Plain and simple. That is what we are facing here.

If you want to see a full fledge DEPRESSION, then go ahead and let the auto companies fail. I can tell you that this country will never recover if the U.S. auto industry is forced to die. And die it will - ALL those jobs will go to CHINA, KOREA and INDIA along with the jobs of everyone who provides a service to those employed by the auto industry.

Everyone not working directly for the auto companies now feels invincible - What the hell, let those greedy autoworkers rot. Well guess what, this will affect ALL OF US.

Those doctor, accountants, paramedics, electricians, mechanics, etc. who provide services to those millions of people directly employed by the auto industry might as well kiss their livelihood good-bye. The police officers, firefighters, social workers, even local politicians, no one will be able to pay those taxes that pay your salaries, so you too, kiss your job good-bye.

The well drillers, the pipeline operators, the fishermen, farmers, restaurant waiters & waitresses, pilots, flight attendants, over the road truck drivers, if no one has the money to pay for your services, you too will be S.O.L.

This is a lot BIGGER than most of us have imagined.

 

[Randy_the_Hack]

Pretty good analysis, Ray...

 

[stacks04]

ray that is all good and well, but what do you do with bailout loans, continue to pay the uaw employees 70 bucks an hour, cmon. the owner of my job is making cuts to stay afloat, no telling what goes on if gm sinks, but they need to make cuts like everyone else. what will gm do with this loan money if it gets it to become more finacially stable and help itself.

that is why i am not in favor of this, this is not a normal economic slow down, and people seem to be talking loan and not bailout so it is just fine. gm has not offered the govt any ways they will be taking the initiative to lower there bills so to speak. so to me it is rewarding foolishness and bailing them out. a loan it may be, but if they fail anyway, we wont get paid back. then what do you call it?

 

[Sparky8370]

I'd call that bending over for the general.

 

[DEERE3594]

I support it, dont want to but I hate to see more jobs lost if any of the big 3 go down..

 

[eng158]

i voted 5. they need a preplanned bankruptcy with everything planned out. everything will be negotiated in advance, they can hopefully right off some debt, restructure and redo their contracts. in 2 to 3 years they will come out of bankruptcy as a brand new leading firm, one that is not only looked up to in the car industry but all sorts of industries. i hope that they can do what Harley Davidson did when they fell on hard times and had to restructure. also with the government, or judge really running them and the government financing them who wouldn't buy a government backed car. it will be backed by the government like the dollar so you know the firm isnt going anywhere.

that is the hopeful, more then likely little will be done and all that we will get is a band aid to cover the problem and not fix it.