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Optimum timing setting with a DB2 pump

Twisted Steel Performance

Twisted Steel Performance

Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
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What is the optimum timing setting using a snap on MT1480 with the probe in the glow hole way of timing..... Manual pump motor.....

setting for----

Power - ?

Factory setting - ?

torx - ?

thoughts please
 
also add durability and longevity to the reccomendations, both concerning the motor and the injection system. I need to set timing too, but I am geting a Kent moore J-33300 timing tool. I assume operation is the same.

hopefully you dont mind trailrider, I figured we'd lump DB2 settings together in one thread. if you'd prefer it I could start another thread.
 
Timing is supposed to be line to line - lining up the IP marks with the timing cover. After 30K miles the timing chain has stretched so advance becomes necessary.

I feel ideal timing on a factory setup has black smoke with the cold advance on under heavy throttle that clears when the cold advance goes off. Slight bump in fuel, over 1/4 turn, got me these results. This was with a slight advance from the line.

http://www.oliverdiesel.com/tech/timing.htm

To get real crazy you mess with the light load advance adjustment screw on the side of the pump. The cam retards timing with more throttle.

Further adjustments to the pump curve are done by adjusting the transfer pump pressure screw. 1/4 turn in and your truck will literary take off over 2000 RPM. Rattles like hell with cold advance on over 2K. Also gives you slightly more fuel from higher charge circuit pressure.

More advance makes more power. More advance means more pressure on the lower end and higher NOx emissions. Possible black smoke increase.

Pop pressure and the lighting delay of the fuel also affect timing.
 
Yep, I read that also, my setup is way more than stock now and 2833 has been built putting out 95cc of fuel, I know my setup is a little different than most but not really far off, I was just looking to see what others have found with different settings. I have the mt1480 so I am going to play while towing and see what I find. I'm going to have a dyno day soon and I will have time there to see what is different then also.

It is doing good now, but I don't like not knowing where it is set, kinda like building a motor and not measuring anything to me....
 
I would think around 4-8 degrees BTDC at 3000 RPM's would be about ideal. You want it advanced enough to light off just before TDC, but not so much so that your burning all your fuel before the piston starts going back down. More advance isn't always better. I know I found on mine dropping teh timing back actually made it quicker, even though I wasn't advanced to the point that it would rattle.
 
I want to know where I can get more get up from down low. My ip is "broken in" so I figure advancing timing and some adjustments are needed I did 1/4 turn + 1 flat so bout 3/8. The advance screw might be worth playing with.

I am missing my cold advance, there isn't even a bracket...
 
tanman_2006 said:
I want to know where I can get more get up from down low. My ip is "broken in" so I figure advancing timing and some adjustments are needed I did 1/4 turn + 1 flat so bout 3/8. The advance screw might be worth playing with.

I am missing my cold advance, there isn't even a bracket...
Click to expand...

For the cold advance, it is on the side of the pump, green wire I think, the bracket is only for the throttle/ fast idle, the cold advance should work without the fast idle there...
 
THEFERMANATOR said:
I would think around 4-8 degrees BTDC at 3000 RPM's would be about ideal. You want it advanced enough to light off just before TDC, but not so much so that your burning all your fuel before the piston starts going back down. More advance isn't always better. I know I found on mine dropping teh timing back actually made it quicker, even though I wasn't advanced to the point that it would rattle.
Click to expand...

I'm going to start my testing at tdc and go from there, my pump guy said 1*btdc for my setup he thinks so we will see how it goes, I think with me testing it on the road pulling might be good also, even tho it will take me all day to test it.......
 
These engines love advance, but, as learned on the 5.7 Olds engines is a quick way to pop head gaskets.
 
sctrailrider said:
For the cold advance, it is on the side of the pump, green wire I think, the bracket is only for the throttle/ fast idle, the cold advance should work without the fast idle there...
Click to expand...

You're right, it's probably the fast idle. The wire and mount spot is there but there wasn't anything to take off as far as that setup was concerned when I turned the pump up. I'd like to put one back on but not a big concern.

Iirc idi fords like 8-9 bdc
 
trailrider, dont you have the Kennedy timing gears?

I though those had some built in timing changes, which would definitely affect things.
 
I do have DSG gears, they don't have anything built in other than staying accurate over a longer time, once I set the pump it will stay there much longer as they don't stretch like a chain will, other than that, nothing "built in".......

Edit.... I have been told that there is 2*advance built in to the gear sets, I didn't go as far as checking to see tho....
 
sctrailrider said:
I do have DSG gears, they don't have anything built in other than staying accurate over a longer time, once I set the pump it will stay there much longer as they don't stretch like a chain will, other than that, nothing "built in".......

Edit.... I have been told that there is 2*advance built in to the gear sets, I didn't go as far as checking to see tho....
Click to expand...


Thats what I was rembering, thanks for clarifying.

Highly agreed with the lack of variance. I will be putting gears in mine once i get tags and insurance paid.
 
WarWagon said:
Timing is supposed to be line to line - lining up the IP marks with the timing cover. After 30K miles the timing chain has stretched so advance becomes necessary.

I feel ideal timing on a factory setup has black smoke with the cold advance on under heavy throttle that clears when the cold advance goes off. Slight bump in fuel, over 1/4 turn, got me these results. This was with a slight advance from the line.

http://www.oliverdiesel.com/tech/timing.htm

To get real crazy you mess with the light load advance adjustment screw on the side of the pump. The cam retards timing with more throttle.

Further adjustments to the pump curve are done by adjusting the transfer pump pressure screw. 1/4 turn in and your truck will literary take off over 2000 RPM. Rattles like hell with cold advance on over 2K. Also gives you slightly more fuel from higher charge circuit pressure.

More advance makes more power. More advance means more pressure on the lower end and higher NOx emissions. Possible black smoke increase.

Pop pressure and the lighting delay of the fuel also affect timing.
Click to expand...

Which way do you adjust the screw for the advance, in or out, I'd like it give it about a 1/2 turn, sound right?

Where is the pressure pump screw for the advance? I have to change out my head assembly very soon.

How or why do the head/rotor wear? I have a brand new one and without really getting into it, only the center shaft comes out? I don't see any plungers or wear items, so are they sealed inside the housing?
 
turbovanman said:
Which way do you adjust the screw for the advance, in or out, I'd like it give it about a 1/2 turn, sound right?

Where is the pressure pump screw for the advance? I have to change out my head assembly very soon.

How or why do the head/rotor wear? I have a brand new one and without really getting into it, only the center shaft comes out? I don't see any plungers or wear items, so are they sealed inside the housing?
Click to expand...

First I will correct myself. The lever on the passenger side of the pump is a heavy load timing retard. Pushing it in like heavy throttle does retards the timing. Unless you have a need it is best to leave this lever alone. You can adjust the cam on the throttle to bring on the retard later or sooner. The screw on the bottom of the lever has a spec somewhere, but, also adjusts the sensitivity. For example the pump I have needs lots of cold advance at idle due to white smoke, but, rattles bad at steady throttle. (IMO the pump is FUBAR.) I can use the retard lever to back the timing out some sooner and cut the rattle down.

The transfer pump screw is in the inlet of the pump. You have to remove the steel inlet fuel line to get to it. I would not go more than 1/4 turn in on it. Start with 1/8 turn. This affects housing pressure and thus the advance curve bringing on advance sooner and will add more fuel to the plungers due to increased charge pressure.

Last, for setting the timing without tools you can set it by ear. You know how your truck sounded before so lack of rattle or too much rattle tells you ballpark where you are at. An experienced diesel shop can set the timing for you for less than $100 bucks. I am told no one goes by factory spec with ULSD anymore. To make sure you don't have too much timing check the glow plugs for 'erosion' after 1K miles.

Before you mess with any of this keep in mind it is expensive to have the pump re-calibrated. You are on your own for better or worse to experiment as to what your engine likes. It takes several adjustments to find the sweet spot and seasons make this vary. I adjust my pump once a year... The book calls for idle to be set every 6 months.
 
Thanks. From what I've read, waste oils need more timing to offset the higher BTU's of the fuel. The Ford guys do it all the time and it helps with power, MPG and keeping the injectors cleaner.

Which one would you adjust? Some just say to nudge the pump but maybe I need more or the other ways are a better way to do it?

Local shop will calibrate the pump for an hours labour if I so choose.
 
turbovanman said:
Thanks. From what I've read, waste oils need more timing to offset the slower ignition and burn time of the fuel. The Ford guys do it all the time and it helps with power, MPG and keeping the injectors cleaner.

Which one would you adjust? Some just say to nudge the pump but maybe I need more or the other ways are a better way to do it?

Local shop will calibrate the pump for an hours labour if I so choose.
Click to expand...

Fixed it for you. Oil takes longer to evaporate and start to burn than #2 diesel does. It also burns slower after it lights. Think boat engine burning bunker fuel (near raw crude oil) turning 180 RPM... BTU just means you need less fuel via the throttle to maintain speed. MPG goes up with higher BTU's.

The fuel needs more timing all the way around. I would just advance the pump. Suggest have a shop time it with a luminosity probe on the fuel you will be using as this takes the ignition delay out of the picture.
 
WarWagon said:
Fixed it for you. Oil takes longer to evaporate and start to burn than #2 diesel does. It also burns slower after it lights. Think boat engine burning bunker fuel (near raw crude oil) turning 180 RPM... BTU just means you need less fuel via the throttle to maintain speed. MPG goes up with higher BTU's.

The fuel needs more timing all the way around. I would just advance the pump. Suggest have a shop time it with a luminosity probe on the fuel you will be using as this takes the ignition delay out of the picture.
Click to expand...

Advance the pump, IE rotate the housing or adjust the screw at the transfer pump?
 
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