03 Cummins Dead

[Cumminalong]

Shit, Labor Rates in my Area are $125/hour, so that Price Sounds "normal" to me.

See, my labor rates vary GREATLY and it is 100% based on the customers attitude.

It ranges from bring beer to bring the platinum card.

Everytime you yell at me for something YOU broke, the rate goes up $10 an hour.

If you tell me the rate is too high and that you'll take it some place else and then come back because no one else knows how to do it or you realized I wasn't that high to begin with, the rate doubles.

Show up with beer, offer to treat us to lunch, maybe show up with a tool or two that you noticed we might be needing.....you may not pay a dime.

I treat people how they act and how they treat me. It's called courtesy. You show me a little courtesy for the knowledge and skills I have, I'll show a little courtesy to your wallet.

:thumbsup:

 

[BoostN]

See, my labor rates vary GREATLY and it is 100% based on the customers attitude.

It ranges from bring beer to bring the platinum card.

Everytime you yell at me for something YOU broke, the rate goes up $10 an hour.

If you tell me the rate is too high and that you'll take it some place else and then come back because no one else knows how to do it or you realized I wasn't that high to begin with, the rate doubles.

Show up with beer, offer to treat us to lunch, maybe show up with a tool or two that you noticed we might be needing.....you may not pay a dime.

I treat people how they act and how they treat me. It's called courtesy. You show me a little courtesy for the knowledge and skills I have, I'll show a little courtesy to your wallet.

:thumbsup:

When mine blows up I'm bring three kegs, so I should be set?

 

[Cumminalong]

When mine blows up I'm bring three kegs, so I should be set?

Would you believe that I haven't had to buy beer since July?.......

):h

 

[durallymax]

Swapping the motor may take 2 days, but tearing one down and seeing what's wrong, diagnosing it and possibly rebuilding it is another story. And you aren't doing it by yourself.

Just to assemble a motor alone that gets brought to us in pieces, we charge $350 - $500 depending on the year and components.

Is the motor complete with fuel system, turbo, ECM, etc.? Or does all that need to be swapped from the old motor?

$2000 - $2500 isn't unreasonable.

What people don't understand is the "right tools" part. There are a ton of specialized tools that we buy for certain projects. Those tools aren't cheap. Warrantying work isn't cheap. Electronics aren't cheap. Going to school to be a tech isn't cheap.

I challenge the everyday home mechanic to do it in 2 days with what he has on hand and let me know how it goes. Then, let me know the cost of all the tools you have to use, the garage you pay for, the time spent looking for miscellaneous parts from the manufacturers that you've spent numerous hours on the phone and on the road with to build relationships so you can offer the services.

You'll see that the figure quoted isn't so unreasonable.

Ive never done a cummins. But ive had my duramax out ripped down to nothing, back together, and in the truck running in about 15 hours including some diagnostic time. I was very determined as was my helper. This is still more than an average persons day but for a dairy farmer its all in a days work. Keep in mind we were working like a race team as well, because we had a pull the next night.

the only special tools I have is a Duramax service kit and your basic engine tools (dial indicator, torque wrench etc)

Maybe the cummins has more special tools. You dont even need the duramax service kit, the first time i did work on my motor i didnt have it at all.

I also have the shop on the farm with a lift which is an advantage.

Bottom line is that if you know what your doing, and know the right people anybody can do it and do it quick.

2500 in labor isnt too bad thats less than what a GM dealer charges to do headgaskets.

 

[durallymax]

Again, it would depend on the year and engine model.

94 - 98 12V (all mechanical), you could have it out and in about 6 hrs if you were haulin'. 8 - 9 is more reasonable.

98.5 - 02 24V, more like 10 - 12 hrs.

03+ CR, 8 - 10 hrs.

The main reason it takes so long is the whole front of the truck has to come off, including the AC condenser.

It really takes that long??

With the duramax the whole front has to come off, but at the same time i did see a 24v cummins surgery and it looked like a PITA compared to removing a DMax, as the Dmax comes out complete wires and all, theres only a few things that have to come off of it. The quickest time for me to this date is about 3hrs (and i completely remove the trans), but some have removed them as quickly as 2.5hrs. My first time didnt even take me 7 hours.

I guess its another reason to not buy a cummins.

 

[durallymax]

Would you believe that I haven't had to buy beer since July?.......

):h

I noticed that at one shop i was working at. A guy i pull with destroyed a piston so i did all the work for him. The shop he was in got payed a lot in beer. They had to buy an extra fridge to hold it all.

 

[Cumminalong]

It really takes that long??

With the duramax the whole front has to come off, but at the same time i did see a 24v cummins surgery and it looked like a PITA compared to removing a DMax, as the Dmax comes out complete wires and all, theres only a few things that have to come off of it. The quickest time for me to this date is about 3hrs (and i completely remove the trans), but some have removed them as quickly as 2.5hrs. My first time didnt even take me 7 hours.

I guess its another reason to not buy a cummins.

Can you do it faster? Yeah. Those were total removal and reinstall times on a compete, ready to go engine assembly and going at a normal pace, not trying break speed records.

Most of time though, you are getting a replacement block, with no turbo, no fuel system, no ECM or wiring and it's all getting swapped over.

Now, individual components on a Cummins are MUCH simpler.

Do valve springs, head studs, turbos, injectors, INJECTON PUMP, etc. on a Cummins vs a Duramax or PowerStroke and the time differences are huge.

Bring a Cummins in for new studs, springs and injectors and taking my time you're out in 6 - 8 hours.

A Duramax is a lot easier to swap the whole motor, but individual components are a much bigger PITA.

 

[durallymax]

I thought you said those times were removal only. I misunderstood. Now it sounds a little better.

Yes individual duramax components are much harder. A turbo takes forever, injectors take a normal persons days work and headgaskets take 2 weeks at the dealership for many reasons other than actual hands on work.

 

[Cumminalong]

The only thing I cringe at working on is PowerStrokes.

What a PITA.

I've turned away more than I've taken. They're such a friggin mess.

 

[Cumminalong]

the only special tools I have is a Duramax service kit and your basic engine tools (dial indicator, torque wrench etc)

Maybe the cummins has more special tools. You dont even need the duramax service kit, the first time i did work on my motor i didnt have it at all.

The only thing special you need on a Cummins is a valve spring compressor. You don't need it with the engine out, but with the engine in, you can't get to the #5 and #6 cylinders.

Having the simulateous spring compressor is worth it's weight in gold.

The only other speciaty item that is good to have on hand is a Cummins Insight so you have two-way communication with the factory sensors on the 98.5+ trucks.

For a head gasket on a Cummins I charge $500 in labor. On Duramax, you're looking at $2000. Book hours on it are 32 or 33 for an in frame.

 

[durallymax]

Ive only put gauges in one and they were pretty easy. Id say gauges for the big three are pretty easy across the board and about the same.

My buddy wants me to lift his cab off next fall and do a lot of extensive work to it. Im not looking forward to it.

 

[Cumminalong]

That's the only way you can work on them.

Step 1 for anything PowerStroke - Remove cab.

 

[durallymax]

For a head gasket on a Cummins I charge $500 in labor. On Duramax, you're looking at $2000. Book hours on it are 32 or 33 for an in frame.

which is why I opt to pull the motor, much faster.

I believe books hours are 36 but you could be right.

It takes the dealer forever because they have to tear it apart find out what gaskets they need which are direct ship from isuzu then wait for them to come then put everything back together.

when i do them i just order a pair of Cs and be done with it. But i havent done stock trucks.

 

[Cumminalong]

which is why I opt to pull the motor, much faster.

I believe books hours are 36 but you could be right.

Yeah, it's something rediculous like that.

I always keep a head gasket or two for the Cummins in the trailer that we take to events. If a guy blows one, we can change it on site and have him back up and running.

Other trucks...........ahhhhhh, not so much.

 

[btfarm]

The main reason it takes so long is the whole front of the truck has to come off, including the AC condenser.

That right there explains it. Thanks. Our swaps were hood and radiator. BIG difference...

 

[Cumminalong]

The nice thing (well 2 nice things) about pulling the Duramax vs pulling the Cummins is 1 - the Duramax wiring harness is simple and comes out as a unit, and 2 - the Duramax is a lot more compact package.

The Cummins is so tall and long that getting it out is a pain. On the older 12V's you could leave the head on and easily pull it, but from '94 on the back 2 cylinders are hidden under the cowl and it doesn't give a lot of room to get to the lifting provisions.

It's easier to pull the head off and gain yourself 8" of room to work with.

 

[durallymax]

Yeah, it's something rediculous like that.

I always keep a head gasket or two for the Cummins in the trailer that we take to events. If a guy blows one, we can change it on site and have him back up and running.

Other trucks...........ahhhhhh, not so much.

Thats because Duramaxes dont go through headgaskets like Cummins'

 

[Cumminalong]

Ohhhhh, somebody's got jokes.....

Actually, it's just cuz you don't see as many at the events.....at least not coming or going under their own power.

They look good in the parking lot and watching from the stands though.

):h

 

[WarWagon]

My buddies 03 Cummins went into the shop last week to get diagnostic for injectors (as we were pretty sure of the problem). So the mechanic tore it down, and apparently the motor is toast.

From the Mechanic to my friend to me:

All pistons are "Charbroiled" (2 of which is "burn up" completely), two pushrods bent, and the list goes on.

It's been hard starting for about 8 months now. He was on a camping trip a few weekends ago in the woods, and it wouldn't start the next morning. So stranded in the woods, he used some ether to get it to start (mistake #1). The engine ran away and would not shut off reving over 5K. It finally went down it's self. So towed to the Diesel shop and this is where he stands.

We've come to the conclusion to get a complete engine. My question is, did the ether kill this motor?

You need to get back on track here and find out why the engine ran away. You don't want a 'new' engine to do this because the problem is still there. You typically blow the head off the engine with too much ether in a single bang. Did he soak the air filter?

Otherwise I would suspect that the IP stuck, from turning up the screw too much or failure. Or it got engine oil in the intake: from a blown turbo seal etc.

The burnt pistons may be from bad injectors or overpower. The run away is a separate issue.

A butterfly cut off valve would be a good investment esp. for this truck.

 

[BoostN]

You need to get back on track here and find out why the engine ran away. You don't want a 'new' engine to do this because the problem is still there. You typically blow the head off the engine with too much ether in a single bang. Did he soak the air filter?

Otherwise I would suspect that the IP stuck, from turning up the screw too much or failure. Or it got engine oil in the intake: from a blown turbo seal etc.

The burnt pistons may be from bad injectors or overpower. The run away is a separate issue.

A butterfly cut off valve would be a good investment esp. for this truck.

Seems the ether made the runaway happen. He didn't soak the air filter, took the filter out and sprayed up the intake. And apparently it didn't stop ( I wasn't there)