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IP installation 2

buddy said:
Do you think that the finding cyl 1 TDC and taking the bolts loose through the oil fill tube is necessary? I have not heard people doing this before. Like if I pull the IP out, shouldnt the new go back in the same way?
Click to expand...

You need to remove the bolts to get the IP gear off of the IP. That 6" gear isn't going to fit throught the 4" hole in the timing cover. The only way to remove them without pulling the water pump/water pump backing plate is through the oil fill tube.

Think of the injector pump being like the distributor on the gassers you are used to. Pump needs to be timed to inject fuel when correct cylinder is at TDC of the intake stroke.
 
You made it look easy my friend... Thank you for your time and effort on posting this, and taking the pix. You were determined not to let the forum's beat you up and you succeeded!
 
packratt said:
You need to remove the bolts to get the IP gear off of the IP. That 6" gear isn't going to fit throught the 4" hole in the timing cover. The only way to remove them without pulling the water pump/water pump backing plate is through the oil fill tube.

Think of the injector pump being like the distributor on the gassers you are used to. Pump needs to be timed to inject fuel when correct cylinder is at TDC of the intake stroke.
Click to expand...


So if you are not exactly TDC1, can the computer fine tune the by advance/retard? Or is it impossible to end up 'close'?
 
Odlaw said:
Nice work!
I vote to have these pix and instructions in a sticky.
Click to expand...

Speaking of Odlaw, you should take your pix and do a little write up on the HB r&r for sticky too.

Great posts for the Technical Library How To's, & DIY's.

Its guys that take the time to share with the rest of us that makes this site King. Hats off to everybody!!!!!!!!:sifone::cheers2::bow:
 
you don't have to be EXACTLY at TDC no. 1, just knowing you are there is fine. the gear will have a bit of slop, and you have the slots in the IP itself. that is why you want to look at where the IP nut wear marks are on the old IP. that is a good starting point.
 
Is the procedure the same for a 95? If so I screwed up when I installed my IP. This is my second pump, the first time I guess I got lucky (no issues started right up), this time I did everything exactly the same and the truck will not start:mad2: I now know the IP itself is not at TDC nor was the engine prior to me pulling out my defective pump. How do I set the IP to TDC once I pull it out again?:confused:
 
I just did mine without the engine at TDC#1 and it started up fine. Took some turning over of the starter but runs.

I think it might be easier to find the slot in the IP gear when you put the IP into the hole if it is at TDC#1 but this shouldn't effect starting the engine unless you missed the slot and somehow put the pin into hole in the IP gear instead.

My 2 cents.
 
That is what I am thinking, I for sure got the IP pin in the right place, all three bolts went in just right:smile5:I guess I've got some other issues that need attention. thanks for the input ireburb, awesome write up and photos indybeck!:thumbsup:
 
max, i'm not sure. The only thing i can think of would be to rotate the input shaft with the pump out. when fuel squirts out the no. 1 hole, you would be close. I only find no. 1 TDC as a reference. Seems to make things a little easier. The other thing, and correct me if i am wrong, the IP turns once for every turn of the crank. Meaning you may be 180* off. Hopefully, some of the other guys will come to our rescue. i am just a weekend worrior.
 
Thanks for the information indy, I'm just a weekend warrior as well:thumbsup: but it makes sense. When I was installing the IP I did not realize there were two pin holes for the pump on the IP gear and I installed the IP in the wrong hole (bolt holes did not line up), realizing the mistake I rotated the pump counter clockwise to line up with the correct IP pin hole, bolt holes lined up, I bolted it up and all was well or so I thought:eek:.
I now believe I did in fact turn the pump 180 degrees out:nonod::sad:. More work ahead.

I guess my question for everyone out there in our 6.5 world now is do I turn the pump clockwise or counter clockwise to get back to TDC (or does it even matter which way I go at this point), and do I get the engine to TDC before I pull the IP again? Any help at this point will be greatly appreciated, I want/need my truck back:sad:.
 
indybeck said:
max, i'm not sure. The only thing i can think of would be to rotate the input shaft with the pump out. when fuel squirts out the no. 1 hole, you would be close. I only find no. 1 TDC as a reference. Seems to make things a little easier. The other thing, and correct me if i am wrong, the IP turns once for every turn of the crank. Meaning you may be 180* off. Hopefully, some of the other guys will come to our rescue. i am just a weekend worrior.
Click to expand...
The IP turns at 1/2 the speed that the crankshaft does,same as the camshaft.
Another tip I've heard is to put a rag or something in through the oil fill hole to catch the bolts from dropping down inside the engine. It would suck to have to pull the oil pan to retreve one bolt.:mad2:
 
A little trick here

The main body of the DS4 is a pecission cast aluminum part.

Beofre removing the old pump place a sharp chissel acros the cover and onto the IP. Tap with a hammer to make a nice clean mark.

Remove the old pump.

Now carfully cut a thin hard carboard template that will fit on the font of your old IP.

Align the template with the housing flange and mark the template where the chissel mark is from the IP

Transfer the template to the new IP and then carefully mark the new IP.

Install the new IP and align the marks.

This is not absolute, but it will get you very close.

As long as you are not off very far the computer will set the timing to whatever the
value that was stored in the ECM from before.

I have done this trick many times and have never had any issues.

If you miss it by too far the ses light will come on as soon as the engine reaches operating temp.

You can be off a couple degrees with the IP physical location and the ECM will still be able to adjust things to where it needs to be.

Doing a scan with a tech tool is always a good thing but not always available readily.

The IP can only bolt up one way (Bolt pattern is not symetrical) plus the lign up stud makes it impossible to install it wrong too.


Now the IP tuns 1 turn for every two crank rotations.

Unless you remove the gear cover and physically screw up the gear to gear timing, you cant screw this up.

Just stuff the IP back in the Hole with the alignment stud in the slot.

Install the 3 bolts with little bit of BLUE loctite and your good to go.

You cant be off on this. No brainer.

MGW
 
Last edited:
Indy MGW got to this before I could respond to your PM request:

As MGW has indicated so long as the gears were not removed the timing can not be off, IP only goes in 1 way, the pin on the IP fits in the long slot.

For the (3) timing gear bolts I break torque and back out bolt a few threads so I know it's going to be easy to move, then I use my "mechanical fingers/grabbers" on the bolt head, reaching into the front timing cover to spin out the bolts a rag into the hole is also a good precaution as well just in case the bolt head pops out of the "fingers". I have done it this way multiple times with success.

For a mechanical "ballpark" timing reference center punch or chisel mark the IP & back of the timing cover to get the current timing, which unless somebody before you has done a TDCO advance movement should have the IP positioned to factory spec of -.25 to -.75 TDCO.

So for the new replacement IP you can measure the distance of the punch/chisel mark you made on the old IP to a reference point on the old IP, then match the same distance on the new IP to same reference point which would be as close one could be with a non scan tool "field setting" you could make.

Now if you get to an engine/IP that has never had a timing punch mark made to it and old IP is already out, way that has worked for me in "field setting" of an IP is to install the IP with the fuel shutdown solenoid pointed to a 12 o'clock-ish orientation. Then I snug the bottom (2) IP lock nuts so I have some resistance to rotating the IP but still have ability to move it with effort.

Plumb in the IP lines, electrical connectors, intake, & other removed parts, with the IP still in the 12 o'clock orientation, fully tighten the top IP mounting nut, crank to purge the IP and maybe even start if it will go, if it doesn't start after adequate purging, loosen the top IP lock nut and rotate towards driver side (advance-time) and that should get you to a point of being able to have successive starting so you can find somebody with a scan tool to get "spot on" timing set point.
 
Thanks for the information, MGW, and Doc. I appreciate you and all the other members taking the time to help us understand, and apply to our 6.5s.
 
Missy Good Wench said:
A little trick here

The main body of the DS4 is a pecission cast aluminum part.

Beofre removing the old pump place a sharp chissel acros the cover and onto the IP. Tap with a hammer to make a nice clean mark.

Remove the old pump.

Now carfully cut a thin hard carboard template that will fit on the font of your old IP.

Align the template with the housing flange and mark the template where the chissel mark is from the IP

Transfer the template to the new IP and then carefully mark the new IP.

Install the new IP and align the marks.

This is not absolute, but it will get you very close.

As long as you are not off very far the computer will set the timing to whatever the
value that was stored in the ECM from before.

I have done this trick many times and have never had any issues.

If you miss it by too far the ses light will come on as soon as the engine reaches operating temp.

You can be off a couple degrees with the IP physical location and the ECM will still be able to adjust things to where it needs to be.

Doing a scan with a tech tool is always a good thing but not always available readily.

The IP can only bolt up one way (Bolt pattern is not symetrical) plus the lign up stud makes it impossible to install it wrong too.


Now the IP tuns 1 turn for every two crank rotations.

Unless you remove the gear cover and physically screw up the gear to gear timing, you cant screw this up.

Just stuff the IP back in the Hole with the alignment stud in the slot.

Install the 3 bolts with little bit of BLUE loctite and your good to go.

You cant be off on this. No brainer.

MGW
Click to expand...

MGW,
Hello. Ok I have read your posts on Injection pumps and proceedures. All is good. Thanks.

This week I plan on removing a IP from a Junker at scrap yard. To keep as spare.

My questions are:

Can I remove the IP by just removing the three hold down bolts?

Can one re-build these units?

Will the pump from a 1994 6.5 be the same...bolt right up? Anything drastically different?

Cheers!
 
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