Starter jammed?

[iamdave0887]

Ok guys. something strange is going on.

My blazer seems to have jammed up the starter. Just to make a not this is the old direct drive starter, not the gear reduction starter. If i rotate the engine back i can hear the starter drive gear go "click" and retract into the starter. If i turn the key all i get is a loud "click!" and then all the lights go to about 1/4 brightness and i can hear a high pitched hum/buzz of the starter trying to turn. If i put my hand on the starter afterwords it is quite warm.

The engine turns over via breaker bar on the balancer pulley bolt just fine so it's not hydro-locked.

Different batteries change nothing(i put two brand new ones in). All connections are tight. Starter cable is the size of a garden hose at 4/0. crossover is 2/0 and both main battery grounds are 2 awg.

The truck started just fine before. Could i have busted my starter somehow? This never happened with the 700R4 in the truck, only with the SM465. I have no inspection plate on the trans and it seems the starter nose cone is not supported as the starter opening is quite large(i find this strange) The starter brace is attached at both the starter and the block, and both starter bolts were torqued to 40 ft lbs when i installed the starter last week.

Please help me. I do not want to put in my gear reduction spare if it's going to get damaged. I"m planning on pulling out the starter tomorrow to check for damage. I looked at the flywheel teeth and none seem to be damaged at all.

Could the starter need to be shimmed?

 

[DEERE3594]

Starter needs shimmed sounds like

 

[iamdave0887]

Starter needs shimmed sounds like

the strange thing is, it seemed to work fine before, but i was getting random hang ups sometimes, but it would always work it self out if i let go of the key, waited a second and then tried again.

Is that weird or does it sound like a textbook lack of starter shim(s).

 

[just a number]

any damaged teeth on the starter or flywheel? the clearance between the two should be .020" between the tip of the tooth and gap in the other. you can keep the pinion out by disconnecting the main battery wire at the starter and just jumper the signal wire on the solenoid. watch the fingers!!!

EDIT: on more thing you may have is the wires in the end of the starter have a tendency to break. they're easy to check but you gotta drop the starter to do it.

 

[iamdave0887]

any damaged teeth on the starter or flywheel? the clearance between the two should be .020" between the tip of the tooth and gap in the other. you can keep the pinion out by disconnecting the main battery wire at the starter and just jumper the signal wire on the solenoid. watch the fingers!!!

The flywheel looks fine. The old flexplate had a section(maybe 3 inch section) that was missing 1/2 of the teeth. It looked like the starter ground them down. The starter's teeht didn't look bad, and when the rebuilder had it he didn't mention anything being damaged on the drive.

Are the starters different for the auto and manual applications? This truck has the old direct drive 27MT starter, but i do have a gear reduction 28MT starter as a spare that i can install if the need arises.

 

[just a number]

no difference in the starters. it sounds like you just need to shim it a bit. the flywheel have a nice fresh set of teeth unlike the old flexplate. might be just that little bit that's getting ya. ya I know more work.:mad2:

 

[iamdave0887]

no difference in the starters. it sounds like you just need to shim it a bit. the flywheel have a nice fresh set of teeth unlike the old flexplate. might be just that little bit that's getting ya. ya I know more work.:mad2:

On the starter it says "no shim" on it. I"m guessing that applies to the automatic the truck originally came with?

 

[just a number]

no. it means that the nose cone was supposed to be made to specs. how many things have you sen the didn't fit just right.

 

[iamdave0887]

no. it means that the nose cone was supposed to be made to specs. how many things have you sen the didn't fit just right.

I've seen a whole lot lately.

I"ll figure out what's wrong in the morning. No sense loosing sleep over it, that won't help fix it any.

The only thing i do not understand is why it worked fine at first but now may need a shim? Could it be that the flywheel teeth are just getting a little "worn in" now?

 

[just a number]

check it all over in the morning. a loose wire may have gotten the better of ya too. we'll get ya sorted out.

 

[iamdave0887]

check it all over in the morning. a loose wire may have gotten the better of ya too. we'll get ya sorted out.

I did a once over on the wires, but it was raining, dark and late and i'm exhausted. I"ll go over those in the morning as well.

Did you have to shim your starter at all?

 

[just a number]

never had to shim mine. mind you I've also broken two brackets and on 2nd set of starter bolts. my scores not great either. my buddy ran into a problem kinda like this. the one on his car wouldn't disengage. turned out the start nose cone was slightly warped. and yes it as supposed to be in spec.

 

[Acesneights1]

That was the frankenstarter you built out of spare parts no ? Sonds like a short in the starter to me. I would pull it and have it bench tested. I have never seen a diesel starter need shims. If anything just the opposite that the top of the starter needs to be ground down but that was on gassers. It's a stick shift now....Bump start it to confirm engine is ok. I think you're going to find you need a started. windings cuold be shorting or the bearing could be worn and armature shorting against the case etc etc. Bench test it. The proper way(although no on I know has ever done it) to install a GM starter is to remove the sol. Install starter and move the drive gear forward manually and check for clearence. Ask how many have ever done that.... Bech test is what I recommmend

 

[iamdave0887]

That was the frankenstarter you built out of spare parts no ? Sonds like a short in the starter to me. I would pull it and have it bench tested. I have never seen a diesel starter need shims. If anything just the opposite that the top of the starter needs to be ground down but that was on gassers. It's a stick shift now....Bump start it to confirm engine is ok. I think you're going to find you need a started. windings cuold be shorting or the bearing could be worn and armature shorting against the case etc etc. Bench test it. The proper way(although no on I know has ever done it) to install a GM starter is to remove the sol. Install starter and move the drive gear forward manually and check for clearence. Ask how many have ever done that.... Bech test is what I recommmend

I'll test the starter in the garage once i have it out. I don't think it's a flywheel issue as i rotated the engine over and then tried the key. I did this several times with the flywheel in a different place every time, and still got nothing more than a loud click and dimming lights.

 

[Acesneights1]

If the cables are good and connections ground etc are clean and batts are new(which I know they are) then dimming lights points to heavy draw of shorted starter. I never liked those starters anyway. The newer ones are better. I burned up alot of those older ones.

 

[Acesneights1]

Basically what could be happening it the sol is engaging a dead motor and the drive is not retracting cause the motor isn't turning over.

 

[iamdave0887]

If the cables are good and connections ground etc are clean and batts are new(which I know they are) then dimming lights points to heavy draw of shorted starter. I never liked those starters anyway. The newer ones are better. I burned up alot of those older ones.

Could the lights be dimming because the starters just jammed? i do hear that high pitched noise(like a whine) coming from the starter. It's the sound of "lots of amperage" more or less.

I"ve got a gear reduction starter here. i'm guessing i'll have to hunt down a different starter bracket as well.

 

[Acesneights1]

Bracket may be the same. Call the stealer and ask. I don't remember having to chage that when I went to red starter but it was along time ago.

 

[iamdave0887]

Starter is internally shorted. It won't spin up on the floor with jumper cables either. Damn....

Time for my gear reduction spare to go in it seems. Have to hunt down a starter bracket for the gear reduction, and stop at the electric shop to see if my ol direct drive starter can be brought back from the dead...again....:mad2:

 

[randomid25]

The starter bracket is the same one off the 6.5. Stealership only part. Do a search over on the place. The gm part number is listed over there. Had to go through all this back in march of this year when my dd starter crapped out.