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Ether; use it or not, some say yea, some say nay.

Like I said, I don't even like using it on any diesel. I'd rather just fix whatever is wrong. They should start without it. Of course I realize that is not always the case. Where I park my 3208 I had no access to electric so I had to use it a few times this winter.
 
ak diesel driver said:
We had a manual glow controller on it so we didn't have to worry about the glows and staring fluid. That's really the only issue is the glows being hot if they don't work it don't matter.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Most, if not all swollen glows I have changed have had ether shot at them at one time.

Why ether is bad with hot glow plugs. Lets think about it, you have hot glow plug(what 1000ºf), engine sucks in an ether(highly combustible, self ignites at what 350ºF) rich air charge, piston starts up, pushes this mixture into the precup, boom preignition(not detonation), piston still has another 120 degrees to go before TDC= BAD, destroying GP's, maybe locking the engine, breaking piston rings or knocking out head gaskets.

Now lets unhook/disable the GP's. Piston sucks in either/air, piston starts up(nothing happens), piston continues up finally building enough compression/heat the ether self ignites(detonation), igniting the injected diesel also, heating the combustion chamber and it continues to run.

Use a little gas on a rag(throwed in front of the air cleaner), its alot better for the engine, not as dry and doesn't hit near as hard, WITH DISABLED GP's OF COURSE. For emergencies only, fix your glow plugs/fuel system.
 
I have always thought that the "addiction" part was from a result of slightly bent connecting rods from the use of ether, resulting in lower compression and difficulty starting after wards. Another shot of ether and it will start again resulting in an "etherhead " engine. I also have a tractor with an ether port on it, but it does not have 400 psi of compression either. so I guess it depends on the breed of diesel. I never use it myself--
 
As a diesel tech i do not promote either, but if used properly it shouldn't hurt the engine.
Correct procedure is as follows....
1. takes two people
2. 1 to crank engine
3. 1 to spray small amount of either WHILE engine is cranking

Biggest problem is most people try it themselves and "load" up the intake then crank engine. If you crank then spray just a snort of either it is evenly dispersed amoungst all cylinders. This goes for either gas or diesel engines. And yes an engine can get HOOKED on either. very addictive.
 
Turbine Doc said:
Nope: other than me creating it as an independent discussion from the other thread, this is good discussion, next one will be "What oil & filter do you use?", that is always good for spirited discussion as well :eek:
Click to expand...

I use straight 60 weight myself ):h
 
625fireman said:
As a diesel tech i do not promote either, but if used properly it shouldn't hurt the engine.
Correct procedure is as follows....
1. takes two people
2. 1 to crank engine
3. 1 to spray small amount of either WHILE engine is cranking

Biggest problem is most people try it themselves and "load" up the intake then crank engine. If you crank then spray just a snort of either it is evenly dispersed amoungst all cylinders. This goes for either gas or diesel engines. And yes an engine can get HOOKED on either. very addictive.
Click to expand...
I never needed a second person,And how the F can a engine become addicted?

If that where the case one would need to use more and more over time to get it going.

On my 6.2,one little sniff in the fiter intake( sometimes twice if it is below zero C) before start have gotten it purring without fail a thousand times or more allready( no glows)
 
Hey there B, no need to get spun up, we can challenge each other without going to a HTF sentiment.

"Addiction" theory has been around a very long time, was taught to me back in early days of my machinery basics schooling that Diesels and ether should only be used if all else fails.

Possibly an old techs tale, but been my experience those kind of tales exist for a reason, just like old adage "good engineering practices" learned the hard way some things are done or not done because it has been passed down as sage advise, I would not wholly reject it because you have not been exposed to it.

I think main point of this thread for glows and ether it's bad karma, ether on cold days with experienced person & no glows you can get away with it, 2 man use is easier, my tractors that came with no glows operators manuals say use ether sparingly if at all,

OEMs have some reasons for saying that, is "addiction" one of the reasons, I don't know possibly it is, but I've heard that sentiment from many who have gone before me so I accept that for what it is, fact or conjecture, I choose to not use ether unless no other way is working for me. My JD2020 would not start without it before I overhauled the engine, "addiction, or just wore out" I don't know, but doesn't need it now with cost of the overhaul not worth me putting "addiction theory" to test.
 
vail426 said:
I have always thought that the "addiction" part was from a result of slightly bent connecting rods from the use of ether, resulting in lower compression and difficulty starting after wards. Another shot of ether and it will start again resulting in an "etherhead " engine. I also have a tractor with an ether port on it, but it does not have 400 psi of compression either. so I guess it depends on the breed of diesel. I never use it myself--
Click to expand...

Same here. Exact same reason I heard. Then again, once a fleet truck gets 'started cold' with ether, why bother to fix the glows? 'Just use ether'... It makes the engine race, before oil pressure can even build, not to mention its extremely dry.

I don't even own a can of ether. I do have an old can of starting fluid for my old bone sander engine though. Its rusting out (the can)... I would never even use it as 'last resort' on my truck. Its not like if its not starting on its own, a shot of ether will make it run.

It may make it run until the ether is all used up, but then the orignal symptom of failure is back (fuel?)

Maybe I'm just so use to a fully functioning glow system, that I'm spoiled by my trucks ability to start at all temps. Like I formentioned, started 8df overnight outside unplugged with no compresssion in one cylinder. FIred right up.

I would be extremely pissed off at a mechanic if they said, "It ran off the ether, but then died"...

I am not pissed off if friends of mine like Bison want to use it on his truck.

I have used it on older fords 6.9's, at the tow garage I use to work at. I've even diagnosed other peoples vehicles for no fuel by saying "IT ran off starting fluid"...

Maybe its good old forum parania striking again !! LOL.

Perhaps I shouldn't be commenting, as I have no real-life experience with Ether and 6.5's, and I never plan to have any.

But I can't resist... I'm addicted to DTR, and apparantly I'm a....

:postho

But it's better than being a...

:dr:
 
Acesneights1 said:
Like I said, I don't even like using it on any diesel. I'd rather just fix whatever is wrong. They should start without it. Of course I realize that is not always the case. Where I park my 3208 I had no access to electric so I had to use it a few times this winter.
Click to expand...

Okay, so this appears to be your real reason for this thread...

1. With regard to "fixing whatever is wrong". This is where fantasy and reality meet. Sure, that sounds altruistic and noble but exactly how are you going to determine what is wrong at -30deg F and blowing snow? The engine cranks and cranks and billows smoke, but no fire! Is it a timing issue? Is it a lack of cranking compression? Is it gelled up? Is it just that the water jacket and iron inside the engine is sucking up every last bit of heat out of the compressed air? How do you know? Do you want to take the time (and chill) to investigate?

2. I have been around diesel farm equipment, diesel trucks, and the like for my entire life (even as an Engineer for some of the manufacturers) and because of this I believe that ether is not evil when used properly. Can it be abused? Yes! Is it abused? Yes! But this can be said about almost anything! As others have mentioned, ether cold-start assist systems are often factory-installed on many tractors. IE: I helped design the ether system on the CaseIH CX Series.

3. Ether should NOT be used on an engine with functional glow plugs. PERIOD. Is this how the glows are getting "wiped out"?

Regards,
 
I think that ether addiction comes from two things. Main one being, to much ether or being sprayed when not spinning the engine over and it cracks the rings, further lowering compression and its ability to start. Second one, the dry ether accelerates ring wear on an already worn engine, loosing compression again, but this would be pretty minute wear.

Side note, people say 60g's wont swell, they have not saw one thats been hit with ether. I've pulled several out of 6.9 ferds that were swelled.

Alot of your heavy equipment with factory ether aid, has the push button wired to the starter solenoid wire. This way the engine has to be spinning to get a shot of ether, pretty good ideal.

I know I sound like an advocate for starting fluid, but I actually hate it with a passion. But it does have its place and is needed for some situations. Just use caution and common sense, and if you can get away with it dont use it at all.
 
Goldsburg said:
Okay, so this appears to be your real reason for this thread...


Regards,
Click to expand...

Actually G, don't know where ya tuned in but TD separated this from a nostart when cold thread. I didn't just throw this out there for fun but it got carried away from the original Post. I told Non Typ that I believed his no cold start issue was probably wiped glows from using ether. That's where the debate came from. Others argued that ehter won't damage an engine or glow plugs. I disagreed, hence the now separate thread.There are parts of this missing from the other thread of how the debate came to be. I never said I haven't used it myself on older non glowplug engines. I do say though I Don't like using it on any engine.
Just so the record is straight. In fact I used it on glow plugged engines which is why I can speak from experience of the damage it can do. A 6.5 is not a 8v92t. It won't take the same punishment.
 
Goldsburg said:
Okay, so this appears to be your real reason for this thread...

,
Click to expand...

Gary,

I separated this from the other post linked above in earlier post, it was taking a life of it's own and getting way OT from the starting thread, but IMO a discussion worth it's own post; so not a argumentative post at all for sake of arguments, with this being post 59 seems to be something folks were somewhat interested in.
 
It's OK Tim, I confess....I HATE Ether... there I said it. Roses are red violets are blue I'm schitzophrenic..and ether is too...:rofl:
They say admittal is the first step to recovery...:rofl: :eek:
 
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