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Any way to beef up my front end?

M

mgray

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Messages
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Location
Vancouver, BC
Since my torsion bars are turned up about 2" and I'm running bigger tires, I seem to be wearing out my front end farily quick. Especially the pitman and idler arms. I know there is a support brace for the dmax's, but not for us 6.5ers. Are there any products out there, or any tricks any of you know about to help beef things up a bit?



Thanks
 
I would suggest that you turn your torsion bars back down to where they belong and install a lift kit, instead, if you're trying to gain height. Your front end is already "beefed up" from the factory, but it wasn't designed to operate in the condition you have put it in. There is a certain amount of travel upward and downward travel for the system to operate safely and over a long period of time.
 
2" seems like an awful lot to expect to crank up the torsion bars. You've changed your control arm geometry to put a lot more "bend" in the steering components. They now have to go down to the tie rod ends instead of straight out. I'm trying to picture the changes in my head, but it seems like there would be more pressure on the tie rod ends, not necessarily the pitman arm and idler arm. If those are at a steep angle, you should look at replacements that will restore them to their more straight configuration. I know there are pitman arms with more drop to accommodate lift for some vehicles, but I don't know about the idler arm. There are lift kits that will maintain the proper front end geometry, but they're pretty spend and pretty involved to install.

There are keys you can use to re-index the torsion bars, but they'll still put the steep angles in your front control arms.

I can't help but wonder if it's simply the bigger tires causing the stress on the components. The front end of these things is pretty wimpy compared to the old live axle setup. What size tires are you running?
 
mgray said:
Since my torsion bars are turned up about 2" and I'm running bigger tires, I seem to be wearing out my front end farily quick. Especially the pitman and idler arms. I know there is a support brace for the dmax's, but not for us 6.5ers. Are there any products out there, or any tricks any of you know about to help beef things up a bit?



Thanks
Click to expand...

If the support brace for DMax's are the brackets I'm thinking of, Cognito Motorsports website now shows similar brackets that add support for the pitman & idler arms for the '93 - '98 GM trucks.
 
My bars are cranked about an inch, due to hardcore sagging from a plow. I also put a timbren kit on the fron end which is a rubber that rides on your lower a-arm that helps support the truck when its loaded...
 
Ok thanks for the info. This is my first truck and I've only had it a year. The previous owner had the torsion bars turned up as far as they could go, but I had them turned down a little bit so I don't know if 2" is the true amount. I have 285's on right now.

I'm just getting crazy fast wear on the outside shoulder of my front right tire, as well as accelerated wear on the drivers outside shoulder, but the pax side is really bad. There is also a slight pull to the right, and even after multiple allignments it always seems to come back. Pitman and Idler arm's were both replaced less than 20k miles ago.

I'm not too knowledgable with what all happens when you lift trucks. I know a lift kit is the best way to go, but I can't afford one right now. And I only need what I have now, I don't need anything bigger than 285's. Most kits I see start at 4", but I only really need 2" to fit 285's.

Apparently Norcal now makes an Idler/pitman brace for our trucks, just like the ones for the dmax's.

But maybe it's my tie rod's that are wearing??

I just have trouble picturing what all happens when you lift it the way mine is. All I can picture is that the lower control arm is now really close to the bottom stop, so there is very little room for it to move down before hitting the stop. Can't picture what is happening to the drag link or anything else.
 
Here are pic's of how they work on the newer trucks. I have not yet installed a set here but these go like hot cakes for the 01-up 8-lug trucks.


nctpitmanidler2vw3.jpg
 
Check your ball joints and parts before the next alignment. Its worthless to align a vehicle with excessively worn items because with the first jolt its not aligned anymore.

Do you have a steering stabilizer? Replaced it? Bilistens recommended for shocks. Rotate and correct issues early or its a catch 22 and accelerates each others wear. If you don't have really aggressive lugged tires the front end isn't too awful but mudders or lugged tires once worn will increase wear and tear much quicker than milder tires.

Idlers and Pitmans last about 60-120K depending on tire aggresiveness, roads etc.
 
mgray said:
Ok thanks for the info. This is my first truck and I've only had it a year. The previous owner had the torsion bars turned up as far as they could go, but I had them turned down a little bit so I don't know if 2" is the true amount. I have 285's on right now.

I'm just getting crazy fast wear on the outside shoulder of my front right tire, as well as accelerated wear on the drivers outside shoulder, but the pax side is really bad. There is also a slight pull to the right, and even after multiple allignments it always seems to come back. Pitman and Idler arm's were both replaced less than 20k miles ago.

I'm not too knowledgable with what all happens when you lift trucks. I know a lift kit is the best way to go, but I can't afford one right now. And I only need what I have now, I don't need anything bigger than 285's. Most kits I see start at 4", but I only really need 2" to fit 285's.

Apparently Norcal now makes an Idler/pitman brace for our trucks, just like the ones for the dmax's.

But maybe it's my tie rod's that are wearing??

I just have trouble picturing what all happens when you lift it the way mine is. All I can picture is that the lower control arm is now really close to the bottom stop, so there is very little room for it to move down before hitting the stop. Can't picture what is happening to the drag link or anything else.
Click to expand...

Now that you put it that way, you might oughtta check the ball joints. Mine were shot at 136,000 miles, and they appear to have been properly maintained. With wear on both outside edges of the front tires, how is your driving style? Cornering hard will wear the outside of your front tires. My wife is hell on front tires. She thinks her minivan is a little sports car. She blows through a set of 80,000 mile tires in about 30,000 -- even if I rotate them.

When you lift your truck the way you have, you change the suspension geometry. Specifically, you have put your truck in permanent "up" mode, something it normally sees only when the suspension unloads after going over a bump. It's hard on the tie rod ends, the CV boots and joints, and the big tires just generally cause more wear due to the added stress to move them. Your steering linkage should all be pretty much parallel when your truck is at rest. If you look at yours, you'll see the tie rods are not level. Many a front suspension does not maintain proper alignment when it's all jacked up like that. When I jack up the front of my Chevelle, the front wheels do not stay parallel. I think our trucks maintain camber through the suspension travel better than that, though.
 
If your truck is 8 lug you are very limited to what lift you can use. To my knowledge only two companys even make a kit for the 2500hd and 3500. Tuff counrty and RCD suspension. Both are really expensive. Body lifts require mods because of the 6.5 and can affect your cooling if you tow. I actually remember talking to the guy from RCD and the kits wern't for diesels but he sent me the directions and I think the issue was with the crossover so that may need to be fabbed but I have never done one so can't say for sure.
 
Pulling to the right and worn outside edges sounds like your passenger side A-arm may be bent or needs to be adjusted forward. The tire is probably setting a little further back from the drivers side.
 
Nor-Cal Nick said:
Here are pic's of how they work on the newer trucks. I have not yet installed a set here but these go like hot cakes for the 01-up 8-lug trucks.


nctpitmanidler2vw3.jpg
Click to expand...

Looks good Nick, i wasnt aware of these, I'm going to have to try these instead of making my own centerlink hopefully these will hold up in my pulling truck. One question though, do you know what the tapered bolts that go into the knuckles are called? I need to make my own tie rods out of heim joints but I am having trouble sourcing or even finding out what those tapered bolts are called.
 
Yeah I'm going to have all the front end parts inspected when I do an alignment in the next few days. Also since I don't seem to notice any rubbing anymore, I think I might have them turn down the TB's a little.

But this has me thinking about lift kits, and I've been doing some searching. But first off, is there a website that has all the lift type's explained?? I'm noticing all the kits are somewhat different and I don't know what's best.

I'd only want a 2" -4" max lift. For that size lift, most kits just include new TB keys, control arms and a block or leaf for the rear(is one better than the other?). What type of kit is best for keeping the front end geometry in good shape so to avoid this wear and strength problem??

I found this site http://www.rockymountainsusp.com/GM_IFS.htm and if you look at the Rough Country 2-3" kit, that will still cause the issues I'm having right? What will the new upper control arm do? My ball joints will still be stressed as well as my pitman/idler no??

I guess I'm asking what the best lift kit is for my truck, that is best for the front end?

Thanks for the help guys
 
buddy said:
Pulling to the right and worn outside edges sounds like your passenger side A-arm may be bent or needs to be adjusted forward. The tire is probably setting a little further back from the drivers side.
Click to expand...


Ok thanks for the thought! By A-arm tho, do you mean control arm? If yes, would both upper and lower be bent?
 
The differential drop bracket will straighten out your front halfshafts, lessening up the steep angles on your CV joints. This is good for the CV joints, but doesn't do anything for your suspension geometry. The torsion bar keys will let you crank down your torsion bars, while re-indexing them for greater height.

The new control arms could well relocate things enough to take care of your suspension geometry issues. Your ball joints and steering components are stressed because of the bigger tires, in addition to the lift.

The rear add-a-leaf raises the rear and will stiffen the ride. The rear blocks add height without changing ride characteristics. The disadvantage of the blocks is in off-road situations where you put a lot of stress on the springs, you get more axle wrap with blocks. If you're really into off-roading, you might look at new springs altogether. If you're just driving down the road mostly, and doing some "normal" off-roading, the lift blocks will be fine. Any time you increase the distance from the axle housing to the spring eyes, you increase the leverage on said springs, and axle wrap is more an issue.

For 2", the kit that relocates the front diff and has new control arms should do okay; the new control arms look like a good idea, assuming they aren't weaker than what's on your truck now. My truck has forged control arms; I wouldn't want to replace them with something less. For 4", I wouldn't lift without dropping the front suspension away from the frame. If I didn't off road on a regular basis and didn't need the big tires, I'd leave the stock tires on and not lift anything. ...but that's just me. The best lift for the most durability would be to tear out that ridiculous IFS and put a live axle under there. Problem solved, but you'll still have added wear on the steering components with the larger tires.

Check carefully to be sure you don't buy a kit for a half ton truck.
 
Yeah on further inspection, the only kit I could find for my truck is the 6" Tuff country. The 4" says it shouldn't be used on 2 piece rear drive shafts. So that means me since I have an extended cab long box.

Does anyone know of any other kits for my truck?
 
This thread is maybe a little old, but I'm pretty sure I will shell out for those pitman and idler braces eventually. I think the kit is a bit on the expensive side, but if it can save me from the job of replacing that pitman arm even once I think it's worth it. I hated that job!!

If money wasn't an option I would also like something like a 4" lift, just for show. Couldn't do much more then that as lifting your truck is pretty much illegal here. At least lifting anything american is about hopeless as you need tüv papers on everything you mount on your vehicle and it has to be approved by the vehicle manufacturer. But I think you might get away with a 4" lift. At least I would like som bushwacker cut out fender flares as I like the look of big wheels without the big air gap between the wheels and the fenders. Kinda like this: Arctic truck. :thumbsup: But maybe something a little more moderate! :rolleyes5:
 
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