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More Cumapart Carnage!

Discussion in 'All Other Diesels' started by WarWagon, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. WarWagon

    WarWagon Well it hits on 7 of 8...

    7,938
    2,151
    Nov 15, 2009
    AZ
    Or I am out of things to drive... :dead:

    So I have a "missing feeling" after startup on my 2003. Turns out to be a solid miss on #2. :banghead:

    Further the exhaust manifold is leaking again.

    After testing so far the #2 injector is dribbling under pressure and another one has a high return rate. The HPCR injector set and install will cost more than I sold the 6.5 Banana truck for... Waiting on compression test results as a dribbling injector can burn a cylinder out.

    Manifold has shrunk and is warped. So much for AFE. And their support isn't home asking if their stainless steel or tube SS manifold would take the heat better. So I got a BD 2 piece replacement.

    DSCN4578.JPG DSCN4576.JPG DSCN4573.JPG 2017112895080405.jpg 2017112895080400.jpg 2017112895080417.jpg
     
  2. THEFERMANATOR

    THEFERMANATOR FRANKENBURBAN Staff Member Lead Moderator

    8,820
    2,023
    May 9, 2008
    ZEPHYRHILLS FL
    VCO injectors fail, plain and simple. It's just a fact of common rail life. VCO's do not belong in a CRD design where there is constant pressure. Theres a reason Cummins went to SAC's for the 6.7l.
     
    MrMarty51 likes this.
  3. Will L.

    Will L. Well-Known Member

    6,928
    4,972
    Jan 25, 2013
    Boulder City Nv
    @WarWagon sux to hear. Hoping no damage for ya. What’s a set of injectors run for that? And the exhaust manifold shrinking- happens to every ex manifold that is unsupported from mount to mount. Repeated expansion and contraction with nothing to force it to cool at proper position. It can be nice to not have the extra metal in the way when working on other parts though. If the aftermarket units have a 1 piece flange runner that bolts To the head, it should work. If not, it should warp. Same ol problem been occurring since the 30’s. All mfr cares is if it makes it out of warranty.

    @THEFERMANATOR care to expand your explanation? More schoolin for me/us... just pretend your trying to talk as long as I do.
     
    Jaryd, MrMarty51 and WarWagon like this.
  4. WarWagon

    WarWagon Well it hits on 7 of 8...

    7,938
    2,151
    Nov 15, 2009
    AZ
    There is actually a support runner on the AFE manifold. It's $600 labor to swap injectors, $240 to test them, $3,420.00 for Virgin new BBI injectors, plus $300 for new connector tubes with edge filters and the tubes/injectors are 10% off till the end of the year. No cores required for new Big Bang Injection, BBI, so some savings there. Going into the FASS lift pump with better filters and a draw straw. This truck still has the weak canister mount lift pump. Dodge went to an in tank pump on warranty claims and later years. TG I don't have that.
     
    MrMarty51 likes this.
  5. MrMarty51

    MrMarty51 Well-Known Member

    969
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    Aug 1, 2017
    Miles City, Montana
    How do those prices compare with the old 12 valve units ?
     
  6. THEFERMANATOR

    THEFERMANATOR FRANKENBURBAN Staff Member Lead Moderator

    8,820
    2,023
    May 9, 2008
    ZEPHYRHILLS FL
    Are those BBI injectors SAC or VCO? Bosch motorsports nozzles are pretty much all SAC design because of all the problems with VCO's.

    Will, the short answer for the difference is VCO= valve covering orifice which means the pintle valve inside the nozzle must seal every injector nozzle orifice simultaneously. Not sure on the 5.9l, but for the LB7 the pintle valve must seal all 7 injector orifices. If any 1leaks by, you get white or blue smoke because tge 1 valve must seal 7 seperate orifices perfectly at pressures up to 23,200 psi. SAC design means there is 1 sealing surface, a small sac or chamber, and then the orifices are fed from that small chamber or sac. It's a superior sealing design in the fact there is only 1 sealing point that is designed specifically to seal high pressures vs the individual sealing surfaces of a vco just being a flat face sealing surface. There are a few drawbacks to them, but they mostly deal with emissions(hence why I think they used VCO's for the LB7 so they could eek it by on emissions without a cat converter). VCO's worked great in a pop design because they only had to hold back the combustion gases, many only had 1 sealing point so the multiple orifice issue didn't exist, and the extreme fuel pressures are only present when the injector needs to open.

    Here's a illustration to show the basic difference.
    [​IMG]
     
    1994ch, WarWagon, MrMarty51 and 2 others like this.
  7. WarWagon

    WarWagon Well it hits on 7 of 8...

    7,938
    2,151
    Nov 15, 2009
    AZ
    I get the impression that early injectors had to be redesigned to get the weak areas out: Aka we got to beta test them with our, dirtier than The EU, USA diesel. Second and related is the sub par filtering used by the OEM's. I am most annoyed by testing them 20K miles ago with the engine rebuild and having to replace them now. Testing doesn't predict any remaining life. :facepalm: Oh well saved me big money during the engine rebuild.

    BBi's appear to be SAC and this may explain the recommendation I got to go stage 1 over stage 0.5's due to the haze at idle from other's experiences. It's the hand built and matched injector sets from Virgin New components that sells me on them. The BBi warranty is horrible 1 year parts vs. 3 year parts and 2 year labor on New Bosch. New Bosch is a tricky term though.

    RANT: Bosch came out with "Gen-New" name that re-uses the crack prone body only with everything else in the injector factory new. So the market is full of reman krap sold as new... You and I know what "New" means, but, Bosch and many others in the HPCR world use what we would call "Fraud" by labeling reman as new. Supply shortages didn't help the situation as well the the poor reputation of reman injectors.
     
    MrMarty51 and Will L. like this.
  8. DieselSlug

    DieselSlug Rust.....What rust....

    2,522
    347
    Mar 19, 2009
    Fabius, NY
    I have personally had experience with the 12v and 24v (First Gens) with no issues, but no experience with these newer ones. The chipped 24v put you back in the seat as well as my Mustang. Liked driving and plowing snow with that truck but hated the Dodge interior. Dash crack galore.
     
    MrMarty51 likes this.
  9. WarWagon

    WarWagon Well it hits on 7 of 8...

    7,938
    2,151
    Nov 15, 2009
    AZ
    Just had to rub salt in my wounds over the covered with dashmat and still cracked dash didn't you? Seriously I have already done the heater treater HVAC door upgrade and gone through at least 3 seat foam replacements as well as the overpriced power seat frame from cracked and stripped plastic gears. :facepalm:

    The joys of pre-emission diesels. But, yeah, The 425 HP rating of the clutch is all that holds the 'dial a power setting' back. :D Towing grades the cooling system, of course, holds me back.
     
    tanman_2006, MrMarty51 and DieselSlug like this.
  10. WarWagon

    WarWagon Well it hits on 7 of 8...

    7,938
    2,151
    Nov 15, 2009
    AZ
    Waiting on the shop to say when she is smoking. Decided with my lift pump graveyard to go with a "Belt-Fed" mechanical lift pump. Glacier Diesel Power FUEL BOSS mechanical lift pump system. The FUEL BOSS is a belt driven mechanical lift pump that increase output and pressure to match engine RPM... Eliminates the electrical relays, brushes, and other failures I have suffered. Even keeps the OEM lift pump as a backup and priming with an automatic pressure switch.

    Final Fuel filter kit and their Air-Boss intake plenum improvement were also on my Xmas list.

    FB-03045_1178409695.JPG
     
    MrMarty51 likes this.
  11. WarWagon

    WarWagon Well it hits on 7 of 8...

    7,938
    2,151
    Nov 15, 2009
    AZ
    I found out the AFE was indeed the Stainless Steel version after checking the cast in part number.

    Regardless my truck is back on the road now. The BBi's are living up to the rep as I have less Singer Sewing Machine noise from the engine. Still there but quieter.
     
    MrMarty51 and Jaryd like this.
  12. DieselSlug

    DieselSlug Rust.....What rust....

    2,522
    347
    Mar 19, 2009
    Fabius, NY
    This truck looks like its getting expensive!
     
    MrMarty51 likes this.
  13. WarWagon

    WarWagon Well it hits on 7 of 8...

    7,938
    2,151
    Nov 15, 2009
    AZ
    New emissions strangled ones are $70K... o_O
     
    MrMarty51 likes this.

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