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Considering an 05 LLY K3500

Discussion in '04.5-05 LLY' started by tanman_2006, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. tanman_2006

    tanman_2006 Just a farm kid...

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    Well I'm not sure the LML is here to stay, its a nice truck with decent power but I have recently learned I am on the 4th set of rear rotors at 75k miles and well I hate payments and am looking for excuses honestly lol.

    I have put it up for sale with a partial trade option for a crew cab 4x4 under $10k gas or Diesel. So far in 24hrs I have had 2 offers for a LLY so here we are!

    The chassis I am comfortable with, the maintenance of fuel system and filters I on my lbz.

    What quirks does the LLY 5 speed Allison have?

    My main interest is an 05 Crew Cab DRW 4x4 LOADED, 285k miles. At 230 it had new head gaskets, injectors, rail regulators, and Allison by a GM dealer. 2nd owner, he has pulled his 5'er for 7 years and dd'd it. Stock exhaust with soot trap delete otherwise 100% stock.

    What will it need to bring out full RELIABLE WORKHORSE potential? I don't plan to beat the tar out of it like my lbz but it will have towing duties.
     
  2. THEFERMANATOR

    THEFERMANATOR FRANKENBURBAN Staff Member Lead Moderator

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    The lly isnt bad, but it does need some mods. 1st and foremost is the factory intake, particularly the turbo mouthpice need to go. You can go with an s&b, afe, or lbz mouthpiece. Next is the stock airbox and fender opening, they simply dont flow enough air and pull in hot air from the cooling stack. A true cold air intake or an lbz intake with fender opened up are good options. I like the full lbz intake as it uses readily available filters, and gm has a reflash for it to correct for the bigger intake tube(it requires a tune change to run one). Next is to block the egr and open the exhaust up. Then a custom tune to help with the poor throttle mapping and horrendous timing tables for emissions. Keep in mind the stock 5 speed cant hold much more than a stock lly can put out. A 40hp tow tune is about it to tow with. Also you will want to carry an ice pick with you(do a search on ice pick lly) for when 2 or 7 injector plugs lose contact and you drop to 4 cylinders in limp mode.

    They're not as bad as some make them out to be, but they're not an lbz by a long shot either.
     
    WarWagon likes this.
  3. trouttrooper

    trouttrooper Big Blocks ROCK!!!

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    Nampa, ID
    do NOT put dex 6 in the allison. it has a seal that is incompatible and will eventually start leaking. it was fixed in 06. GM is very quiet about that little tidbit, in fact they will deny it I found out from someone who use to work for allison.
     
  4. Ed HD

    Ed HD Formerly: Dad's 05 LLY

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    No problems with our 05, but we don't tow heavy constantly like you do, so...
     
  5. THEFERMANATOR

    THEFERMANATOR FRANKENBURBAN Staff Member Lead Moderator

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    ZEPHYRHILLS FL
    Actually ALL the seals were incompatible up until mid year 06. GM RUINED MANY ALLISONS by putting DEX VI in, and still does to this day. They don't care as it's money in there pockets for a replacement ALLISON. So even the early 6 speeds had incompatible seals in them. ALLISON changed once there research showed that DEX VI was breaking the seals down in SHORT order, but GM STILL pushed there DEX VI. This was part of the reason ALLISON came out with the TES-295 TRANSYND fluid was GM's not renewing DEX III patent and going to DEX VI. ALLISON has a TSB in regards to the DEX VI problem. ALLISON hated DEX VI so much they refused to put it in the ALLISON on the assembly line, and instead used TES-389 DEX III fluid until 07.
     
    WarWagon likes this.
  6. Will L.

    Will L. Well-Known Member

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    Allison is worried about their reputation with end customers and is trying to keep right by them. They are thinking long term. In 2030 you think Allison will still be only in GM?
     
    WarWagon likes this.
  7. THEFERMANATOR

    THEFERMANATOR FRANKENBURBAN Staff Member Lead Moderator

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    ALLISON is in ALOT of different trucks now. Not sure how the contract was worded during the selloff in 06, but I know for now they can only be in 3/4 and one ton GM's, hence why DODGE used the AISIN which makes a copy of the ALLISON.
     
    Will L. likes this.
  8. tanman_2006

    tanman_2006 Just a farm kid...

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    Seiling, Oklahoma
    Would a new GM crate trans have a better seal? I have always used Amsoil in my trans.
     
  9. tanman_2006

    tanman_2006 Just a farm kid...

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    My dad's '16 Cummins has an Aisin and that thing shifts FIRM!
     
  10. tanman_2006

    tanman_2006 Just a farm kid...

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    Seiling, Oklahoma
    I forgot about the ice pick.

    I don't want a race truck, just a reliable work truck without payments! This is still just a consideration I just couldn't remember what mods the LLY needed.

    I'd rather have an lbz but good luck finding a nice one under 10k that someone wants to trade

     
  11. btfarm

    btfarm 300,000 Worth Staff Member Moderator

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    Sandwich, Illinois
    I had my LLY for 40k and had the harness rub through and a failed steering box. Pulled double loaded hay racks without a heat problem. I wouldn't want to run anything in the 05 Allison except TES295. Expensive but so is that transmission
     
    tanman_2006 likes this.
  12. WarWagon

    WarWagon Well it hits on 7 of 8...

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    I am happy my 2005 LLY is long GONE!!! I attempted tuning it and got good results like a faster shifting transmission. However the touchy throttle was still impossible to work in traction sensitive situations. With most of the possible mods done (as noted above) for cooling it was still a survival situation in Death Valley 121 degrees out, windows down, heater on high and trans/engine temp in the red at 25 MPH or stopped.

    It had the injector wires replaced under warranty and was on the hook for the second 'ice pick' injector harness failure. It also tried to burn down with GM's undersized HVAC wiring plague. The HVAC plug and resister pack was covered under the revised GM warranty for that specific failure.

    I would take Patch, a 1993 rat rod 6.2 turbo WITH THE FACTORY GM3, over a LLY anything! It would have done the same 25 MPH, but, with the AC working.
     
  13. THEFERMANATOR

    THEFERMANATOR FRANKENBURBAN Staff Member Lead Moderator

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    Your choice in tuners was alot of your issues. I have tuned a few now, and NONE of them have ANY complaints. One guy tows a 36 foot horse trailer with a lifted dually on 34's averaging 32K pounds gross weight running 85-90 on the flats of TEXAS, and has ZERO problems in the mountains. Has never even said a peep about overheating, but I will admit some cylinder heads do suffer from it(some have swapped heads and done away with overheating, so some feel the problem was with poor head castings for the ones that overheating couldn't be solved). And EVERY LLY I have tuned does NOT have a touchy throttle. The blower wiring was a problem on 03-07 classic trucks, so don't group it to just LLY's. Only a handfull of trucks caught fire mostly because people kept running them on high after they KNEW there was a problem with other fan positions not working. And the injector plug problem is an issue. Even the revised plugs can have problems. I fixxed a few for people buy pulling them apart, tightening the prongs the correct way, cleaning them, then putting them back togtehr with dielectric grease. I'm not a fan of the ice pick method myself, but it is ALOT more work to do them the other way.

    Should have. ALLISON changed the seals around May of 2006 to the new VITON seals I beleiev it was that could handle DEX VI. Also most DEX VI formulations have been revised now to help not eat seals so badly as even compatible seals were having problems, not to mention the problems with DEX VI waxxing in cold temps and turning to concrete plugging everything up.

    The AISIN comes in the cab and chassis models last I checked. It is basically an ALLISOn copy, but to keep from patent infringement they changed it some(ALLISON still sued them, so they changed them in slight ways to avoid being held liable). The changes though have had some unwanted consequences from what I've heard as they do not hold up like the ALLISOn does. MOST CUMMINS come with the DODGE 68RFE behind them which is an OK trans, but doesn't like much power being added to them.
     
  14. tanman_2006

    tanman_2006 Just a farm kid...

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    Seiling, Oklahoma
    He custom ordered his Dodge, they will now put them in any 3500 you just have to check the box. His is a single cab 3500 srw cab and chassis (9'6" bed). Says Aisin on the window sticker
     
  15. tanman_2006

    tanman_2006 Just a farm kid...

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    Seiling, Oklahoma
    My dad will likely never even delete the truck let alone tune it but he does tow fairly heavy and I knew the 68re rep so I made sure he got the better towing trans.
     
  16. Ed HD

    Ed HD Formerly: Dad's 05 LLY

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    Amsoil's Torque-Drive is TES-295 spec, and it's what I run in both of our Allison's (05 LLY, 08 C4500 LMM/5 speed Ally).
     
  17. tanman_2006

    tanman_2006 Just a farm kid...

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    Feb 15, 2010
    Seiling, Oklahoma
    That's what I've always ran. I think I even topped off a couple 4l80's with it. I buy it in 5 gal boxes.
     
  18. WarWagon

    WarWagon Well it hits on 7 of 8...

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    My LLY was a pretty nice truck. But the major issues couldn't be solved and not for a lack of trying and throwing $100's at it.

    Let me rephrase that. The LLY needs modifications from the word go and lots of "theories" as to why it will run hot. It's expensive to test on your LLY and results are not guaranteed. Some are proven to help like the air intake mouthpiece restriction. Another theory: the factory tune that demands X PSI of boost no matter if the turbo is in over speed delivering 500 degree air to the CAC. Far as I am concerned it's a perfect storm of several reasons all adding up let alone each reason being enough to cause problems all by themselves.

    Not only does washer fluid boil under the hood, but, so do the batteries boil dry. No offense, but, everyone and their fing neighbor thinks they have a cure for the damn thing. The only results I got were running extremely hot just under the overheat alarms vs. overheat and de-rating to no power. It's just not like a 6.5 you can throw updated parts at and run cool all day long.

    The blower wiring is a problem... No, it's a Plague! Affecting many GM models including Colorado pickups, HUMMER H3's and the list goes on nearly non-stop. It's worth a yearly inspection at least.

    Tune and Mouthpiece is like a grand dropped on the truck.

    So be warned you could get one of the chronic incurable overheaters for you intended use as a work truck.
     
  19. THEFERMANATOR

    THEFERMANATOR FRANKENBURBAN Staff Member Lead Moderator

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    ZEPHYRHILLS FL
    Guess I should charge ALOT more then. Last one I did I believe cost the guy about $250 for the mouthpiece, LBZ ducting, LBZ airbox, and new WIX filter in it. Add on $175 for me to put in a basic tune, $20 or so for the blocker plate, a few dollars for me to put the plate in(LLY's are EASY to put the plate in) and he was set. He runs his truck as a hotshot truck, and never unhitches. Has never said a word about overheating, but has complained about it taking to long to get up to temp. Not everybody is out to rape you on this stuff.

    And NOT ALL LLY'S OVERHEAT! So they don't ALL NEED mods before working them. It has been shown that some do, while another identical truck will run cool as can be grossing 35K pounds in 120 degree heat.
     
    WarWagon likes this.
  20. Ed HD

    Ed HD Formerly: Dad's 05 LLY

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    Chuck Town, Iowa
    I towed around 26k gross with our LLY in 90°F+ heat (add MN humidity) and had no cooling issues. I was way more worried about the trans temp getting over 200, never saw the gauge move or have any issues with the coolant.
     

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