Best injection timing 6.5 98.

Discussion in 'GM 6.5 Diesel Engines' started by aquilesweiler6.5, Apr 10, 2011.

  1. aquilesweiler6.5

    aquilesweiler6.5 New Member

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    Good nights people, wish to know your opinion about these, Im driving my truck just for pleasure live above 7000 feets (2000 M) actually have TDC -.80 at 4.5 degrees with 4-5mm3 idle 620+-, 178,000M. yap need injectors I Know, BUT HERE IN MEXICO LAND NO INJECTORS, So need to buy those there in USA and is a kind of complicated to my. so need replays to know if can I run beter TDC and Injection timing, please feel free to ask or say By the way Im tech Know the procedures and ETC ETC apreciate serious info. Best regards to all.
     
  2. NVW

    NVW Active Member

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    For performance -1.94 and DES and ACT timing set at 8*. It will rattle more and give a slight gain in performance.

    Your idle fuel rate is on the low end, do you have a sensitive throttle?
     
  3. Turbine Doc

    Turbine Doc Just Another Diesel Guy

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    X2 to what Leo recommends, you say you are tech, what kind of diagnostic tools do you have at your disposal, that you are using for your readings ? if using a Snap On MT2500 your info may not be correct.
     
  4. buddy

    buddy New Member

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    You have no way to set the desired and actual injection timing, aside from a different PCM, its programmed in.

    Setting the TDCO -0.80 is alright, although would improve throttle response if a little more negative. I like it under -1.5 to keep the engine quiet. Also unless you set the TDCO yourself, no knowing if that saved value is accurate.

    Asking what you are using for a scanner is a good question, because I dont think GM still had timing as low as 4.5 degrees at idle with OBD2. That makes for a seriously sluggish truck. I have found that 9-10 degrees is a good place to set the idle injection timing, realizing that is cam timing, and is actually 18-20 degrees crank advance.

    The scanner may be working though, and if that is the case, what can cause the timing to read that low is when the crankshaft position sensor (CPS) and the Optical Sensor (OS) in the Injection Pump (IP) are not actually in sync. Like if the CPS is installed incorrectly, which can happen if the mounting tab of the sensor breaks off, or some have a metal mounting tab that can pop off and be put back on wrong, so the sensor goes in out of rotation. If you dont have a potential spun CPS problem and you set your TDCO then you would do real good to get yourself an aftermarket programmed PCM, such as from WalkingJdesigns.com, the Kojo programming, or Heath.
     
  5. aquilesweiler6.5

    aquilesweiler6.5 New Member

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    Ok I have all replayed but Im new so LOST THE THINK Here is again: Hola, Sorry for the lost have go to Mexico City El Monstruo Means DF. Ready now.

    Do you have a sensitive throttle? A: A little Bit

    you say you are tech, what kind of diagnostic tools do you have at your disposal, that you are using for your readings ? A: Genysis 2.0, Auto enginuity Latest Version with enhaced Chevy, Ford, Dodge. Snap On No thanks.

    You have no way to set the desired and actual injection timing, aside from a different PCM, its programmed in. A: Agree its totally true no way to modificate unless reprogram. wich you need a diferent software and a tool to put in the PCM.

    Also unless you set the TDCO yourself, no knowing if that saved value is accurate. A: True and yes done by my self Took 2 hours and for shure its well done.

    I have found that 9-10 degrees is a good place to set the idle injection timing A: Lets test It.

    The scanner may be working though, and if that is the case, what can cause the timing to read that low is when the crankshaft position sensor (CPS) and the Optical Sensor (OS) in the Injection Pump (IP) are not actually in sync. Like if the CPS is installed incorrectly, which can happen if the mounting tab of the sensor breaks off, or some have a metal mounting tab that can pop off and be put back on wrong, so the sensor goes in out of rotation. A: 3 months ago brand new timing Kit by dinagear, (Found inly one here in mexico buyed by ORMA Autopartes Call to dynagear dealer in mexico they gave the info ONLY ONE KIT IN ALL MEXICO) New wather pump BW, All in place for shure. Optical sensor brand new from stanadyne (Oh yea cost lotttttt damn work cause the stealer Stanadyne sayd "Oh yes we have the sensor but you need to bring the IP and we fix it, The cost: Very cheap man 1400dlls" ONLY WOW THESE IS A DAMN OFFFFFEEEEERRRRRRRR,) So my pieces provider in Guadalajara Jalisco that also is my friend get the sensor from the stanadyne stealer (The same they are friends too) And I Put the new one in the IP, By the way get to these point cause some stupid guy how fix the chassis have the wonderfull idea to gave a litle just a litle wash to the heart of my beast, ohhhh yeaaaaahhhhh with a KARCHER mmmmhhhhhmmmmm, and gues what The wires below the IP and the Intake, get fried. these gave me the gift of replace the OPS cost 700 Dlls and 3 days of work, yes redesign the wires all from the Fire wall to sensors an stuffs, Past it from top of the Intake And the pump enlarge the wires to the PDM and relocate in the left cowl a side of the ABS Pump-module. (I Know need new place to put it)

    If you dont have a potential spun CPS problem and you set your TDCO then you would do real good to get yourself an aftermarket programmed PCM, such as from WalkingJdesigns.com, the Kojo programming, or Heath. A: Man THESE IS MEXICOOOOOOOOOO. No PCMs reprogramed, And Dont credit card so Cant buy it from Infiernet, And UPS is the only one bring to mexico the things and if the PCM cost 400Dlls guess what, total 1000Dlls here in mexico. in your opinion what should I do free gift 500Dlls to UPS???????


     
  6. ak diesel driver

    ak diesel driver Active Member

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    sounds like you need to adjust your optical sensor
     
  7. buddy

    buddy New Member

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    x2, The OS can be set by watching your warm idle fuel rate value. Its explained some on the first page of a list of recommended modification I posted in this other thread
    http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/sh...nd-1995-6.5TDs&p=338555&viewfull=1#post338555

    I am still leary about you having such low timing advance at idle. Do you have an EGR valve on this engine? Or maybe the stepper motor is not engaging the advance lever on the passenger side of the IP. Does the timing increase while accelerating and cruising at speed?
     
  8. aquilesweiler6.5

    aquilesweiler6.5 New Member

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    Lets see. Desired Inj Timing: 14*- Actual Inj Timing: 14* 600+- Revs (50 around up) -0.80 TDCO In Acceleration goes far as 18* Its low? And No EGR. Last time checked Stepper motor Ok.Mechanically lets read the document. No problem sayd 95 year? Is a 98 the mine still aplyes understod there are modifications. Tanks for the feed back.
     
  9. buddy

    buddy New Member

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    The OS stuff in the file still applies to the 98 truck, most of the file does apply.

    That timing is not low. I was just going off your original post that said you are at 4.5 degrees, 4-5mm3 at 620rpm idle. 4.5 degrees is very low at normal idle. That fuel rate is a little low at idle, where you could adjust the OS until its back to about 8mm3. Although if its running good there is no real concern to get it done. When its like 0-3mm3 at idle then people start having issues.

    The 14 degrees is likely the PCM programmed to 11 degree advance with cold advance increasing it a few more degrees.
     
  10. aquilesweiler6.5

    aquilesweiler6.5 New Member

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    Mea culpa, (My mistake) I means, 4.5* when adjusting. When make the test: Desired: 0* Actual 4.5* And in normal function the avobe: Desired Inj Timing: 14*- Actual Inj Timing: 14* 600+- Revs (50 around up) -0.80 TDCO with 5mm3 and with A/C on goes to 8mm3. Again sorry for the mistake.
    Let me tell today make 10 phone calls to search the Fuel filter, And the case depression reg. Valvle. And guess what NO ONE STORE HAVE THE THINKS. I Love my country. I read the document lets see what hapens with the time and tomorrow make the adjustments let you Know guys and really apreciate the feed back.
     
  11. Turbine Doc

    Turbine Doc Just Another Diesel Guy

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    Ahhh that makes more sense, 4.5* is what you are showing when in time set correct ??? if that is case you are too far advanced, it should be around 3.5 stock for average, I like to set for 3.6* as that puts you in neighborhood of -1.95 for TDCO when you come out of time set and you do the ko/ko with APP to floor TDCO learn command
     
  12. aquilesweiler6.5

    aquilesweiler6.5 New Member

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    So lets say put TDCO In -1.9 and Act Inj T: 8* for performance? Its posible? Or 3.5* -1.9 TDCO, Shure in adjustment phase (time set) By the way was reading about the use of Kerosene What is the proportion? For safe and good work, mixed with diesel and 2T Oil Let me Know In mexico NO BIG DEAL WITH THESE Finally an advantage to live here fo the diesels jajajaja. Tomorrow go to buy a ton of Kerosene jajaja.
     
  13. buddy

    buddy New Member

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    When they mentioned 8* timing for performance, I think they were referring to when setting the TDCO some people refer to it as advancing it to 8* to get a -1.94 TDCO value. That is somewhat misleading, because it more like Turbine Dock described, where you set it to a little over 3.5* during the Time Set/TDCO procedure. However that is camshaft referenced, and crankshaft is double that, so when camshaft timing is 3.8* "base timing" then your crank advance base timing would be 7.6*. Whereas it was about 7* to begin with when setting it per the factory specification of 3.5* that produces a TDCO of -0.25 to -0.75.

    I will say that the Time Set value can go down after you actually perform the TDCO learn, so run that time set again and it may actually be about 3.6* now.
     
  14. aquilesweiler6.5

    aquilesweiler6.5 New Member

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    Al ready did it yesterday and stills in -.8, Today need to see the doc so bussy Day, But tomorrow get it done the full procedure to adjust in -1.94 TDCO, only for clearance to my small mind. -1.94 TDCO, Desired: 0* Actual: Wheteaver It Gets? Or try to get the OEM 3.5*? Understod If move the TDCO the Injection timing its proportional. If Im Wrong let me Know, And about the Kerosene?????????? Some one how feeeeeeddddddddmeeeeeeee pleaseeeeeeeee.
     
  15. buddy

    buddy New Member

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    The truck should burn kerosene alright, with 2-cycle oil added. If you are going to try it, maybe mix it 50/50 with diesel and put at least a quart of 2-cycle oil in the tank, but I would not add more than 2 quarts of 2-cycle oil.

    Are you running #1 LSD fuel now?
     
  16. aquilesweiler6.5

    aquilesweiler6.5 New Member

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    Hmmmmm dont Know, Is the diesel produced for mexico supoused to have at least 50Cetanes But dont trust in them. And as far i Know There is no classes of diesel for us, There is only the marine diesel but have understod is less good, and rumors of a diesel for the field Tractors and machinary, but never found It. (The last one) the marine is only saled to Ports, (As far iKnow)
     

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