wont start

[beerwolf]

everything was fine until yesterday. Went out and it cranked over but wont start. lots of black smoke rings. Monday it started but was a bit hesitant to start. The rest of the day it worked fine.
So far I have changed, ops, lp,ip,alt,glow plugs, gp controller, fuel lines, vac pump and lines and solenoids.
I have fuel at the injectors.

 

[buddy]

Do you mean you have changed those parts in the past, or just recently?

You might want to fill out the diagnostic checklist, or at least provide some more info.

Are there any codes? Does the GP/WTS light come on when you turn IGN ON, and how long?

Have you tried unplugging the optic sensor and starting?

What is the temperature? Are you using a block heater?

What type of fuel and additives are you using?

Pretty much all the diagnostic checklist questions

 

[beerwolf]

all parts have been changed witin the last month.
no codes
GP light comes on for about 10 sec
Temp is +8C
I just plugged in the block heater this morn but no difference
truck stop fuel and kleen-flo
It just started lots of smoke. Now it will be OK for the day but after it sits over nite it wont start.
I just ordered a POP tester and will test my spare set. It should be here this week.

 

[beerwolf]

Demographics: tell us about your truck and your ambient conditions:

- Year: 1995______
- Truck model and class (ie: c2500) C/K1500 4x4 Z71_________
- Automatic or Standard auto__________
- Mileage: (indicate miles or km) 425,000 km_________
- Replaced parts and mods (IP, PMD, chip/PCM, TM, injectors etc) IP,PMD,LP,OPS, GP, GP control,Alt___________
- Model: ‘S’ or ‘F’ engine, NA or Turbo, EGR? S –egr turbo______________
- Ambient outside temp: (indicate *C or *F) +8c
- What fuel are you using? (#1 Diesel, #2 Diesel, Bio, VO, WVO, etc) truck stop pump_________
- What fuel additives are you using? Kleen flow___________
- Where are you located? South ontario_____________

General maintenance: inspect and evaluate the condition of each. When were they last changed?
- Air filter cleaned K&N_________
- Fuel filter 8000km_________
- CDR Valve? 25,000km________
- Coolant – last flushed/replaced at 1 week_____________
- Oil – synthetic/regular, changed at 1week_regular_________
- Batteries – state of charge, (matched set) replaced at matched age?_____________
- Battery cables and grounds (removed, cleaned and tightened): _cleaned_____________
- Glow Plugs - how many miles on them? _new_?_______ What type? __?Bosch___________
- Injectors - last changed at _?unknown_____________


History: (Describe how the problem first appeared.)
- What were you doing when it happened? Trying to start______________
- How was the truck running fine before this problem appeared? good_____________
- Has this problem ever happened before? yes_______________________
- Describe any related factors that might be part of the problem. ______________
- Have you checked for DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)? (Y.N) _Y___ And? none________


Diagnostics:

1] Starting:
1a] Does the engine start? _no+ yes_______
1b] Does the engine crank over? _yes_______
1c] Are your batteries fully charged? _yes________
1d] Have you removed, cleaned, and tightened all battery connections? _yes______
1e] Does your Wait to Start light come on for a time? How long? _yes
1f] Does your glow plug light come on? _yes ________ For how long? 10 sec________
1g] Do you see smoke from the exhaust while cranking? What color? Yes, black, white, grey________

2] Fuel Issues (if not running):
2a] Can you hear your lift pump working? _yes___________
2b] Do you get a steady flow of fuel from the water drain (T-handle) ? _yes________
2c] Loosen the inlet line from the IP – is fuel coming out (Lift Pump on)? _yes__________
2d] Loosen an injector line and crank the engine - does fuel come out?yes _________
2e] Do you hear a vacuum (hiss) when you remove the fuel cap? Very little__________

3] PMD / IP Issues
3a] Location of PMD (on pump, on intake, remote mounted) _now remote(bumper)__________
3b] Condition of Extension harness (if used) Vendor or Homemade? _vendor________
3c] Condition of grounds / ground wires to IP / PMD. Check Harness. OK_________
3d] PMD Make:Stanadyne ___________
3e] PMD Age: used X3_____________

4] Stalling Issues
4a] Do you experience stalling only when hot? no____________
4b] Does it stall under particular circumstances? (ie hit bump, or on accel) _no_____
4c] Does pouring cool water over the IP seem to help with restarting? n/A_________
4d] Is stalling momentary (engine recovers)? N/A_________
4e] Does SES light come on when engine hiccups? __N/A_______
4f] Does cruise control quit working when engine hiccups? _N/A__________
4g] Does re-starting seem to reset engine, restoring cruise and power? _N/A________
4h] Changes to dash lights or instruments during stalling events? N/A___________

5] Running Issues
5a] On cold start, does upper rad hose get hard before engine warms up? _no______
5b] Any bubbles or oil film in coolant overflow tank? no_______
5c] Any white slime on oil surfaces (dipstick, CDR, oil Fill cap)? _no_________
5d] Excessive white smoke from exhaust on cold start? At times_________
5e] Excessive black smoke from exhaust under hard acceleration? _no_________

6] Performance Issues
6a] Do you have gauges? _no__________
6b] Maximum boost under load? ____________
6c] Have you added a performance PCM (reflash) or Chip? _no_____________
6d] Have you changed exhaust / downpipe / crossover? _yes__3”-4” no cat_____________
6e] Wastegate – mechanical or vacuum? _vaccuum_____________

7] Temperature-related Issues:
7a] Single or dual thermostats? __single__________
7b] Have you replaced them lately? Manufacturer of replacements? _________
7c] Have you pulled and cleaned Radiator and coolers lately? Yes when I replaced engine 25,000KM ago____________
7d] Have you replaced the fan clutch? Manufacturer of replacement? no________
7e] (winter) Have you tested your antifreeze? Good to what temp? _-40_________
7f] (winter) Are you using a winter grille cover? no___________

List and describe any other factors which are not addressed in this checklist.
We can’t see, hear, smell, or touch your truck, so the more descriptive information you can give, the more likely it is that somebody can assist you

I changed parts ops, ip etc as above within the last month. Had a problem with PMD, changed it and it cured the hiccups and stalling. Now if it sits overnite it is very hard to start. Lots of black smoke some white when it tries to start. When it does start it starts easy for the rest of the day. Other posts under wits end. My other problem before I think was alarm system shut fuel supply down thru fuel shut off relay.

 

[buddy]

I would take any alarm system off the fuel shutoff solenoid, but thats probably not your issue. I'm guessing that there is an extra relay and the normally closed position on the relay is for normal continuity to the solenoid, but if the alarm goes off it opens the circuit.

Leaking Injectors is probably the problem, plus cold start advancement. Its advanced too much in timing with fuel there too early. I had the same issue, lots of black smoke on startup, let it sit for a couple days and it took me holding the crank a few more seconds and I left a black smoke screen behind me. I replaced injectors and cleared all of that up. Now it starts right up instantly when cold, if 30F a few mornings throughout the year is considered cold.

What is Kleen Flow? I cant even find it on Google. Is that Diesel Kleen?

Did you time it yourself with engine swap? Do you know what the TDCO is and idle IP timing?

 

[beerwolf]

www.kleenflo.com
i still have to have the timing set. I have no codes but its probably out.
I have to wait for my buddy to set it with the scanner tool.
The only thing I havent changed is the injectors. I have a set here for a guy that said he just put them in and then he blew a brg. I want to test these first to see if they are any good. I'm hoping the POP tester will be in by the end of the week.

 

[beerwolf]

by the looks of the kleen-flo, i am using the wrong one(green container) winter use.

 

[JMJNet]

3e] PMD Age: used X3_____________

What is the meaning of this? Used PMD?

If it means what it means, you may want to put another PMD to try.

 

[buddy]

OK, youre adding the winter anti-gel to it? That is not going to help with ULSD if that is what your are getting. Is it #1 or #2 diesel at the truck stop? If it is #2 then you NEED a lubrication additive or it'll kill the IP, like the Kleen Flo Deisel lubricant under the winter items even though it is all season. I use TC-W3 2 stroke oil, half a qaurt to a full tank, its cheap and highly effective in testing. Beats most aftermarket products in lubricity.

 

[beerwolf]

PMD - used x3 means i have 3 used ones ,one is dead now. I'll have to wait for a bit to get a new one.

 

[JMJNet]

PMD - used x3 means i have 3 used ones ,one is dead now. I'll have to wait for a bit to get a new one.

I am not sure but your symptom sounds like PMD. You may want to hand tight the transistor on the ones you have see if that revives it for a little bit longer.

 

[buddy]

Since it runs fine when you have it started and you get fuel out of the IP I dont think it is a PMD problem.

But it can cause a lot of issues. I have one thats been on my IP since 2002 and it still works perfectly, I took it off when I changed the IP last year and it still works fine. But I also have a new one that I put on the heatsink after reading so much about it, so I have a spare.

I'm betting your injectors need a change, so its good you have another set. Dont need to dump a lot more money. It makes sense since it sets overnight, leaking into cylinder, could caused advanced ignition, along with already cold advance, and you havent set the timing, or TDCO, so who knows what its at now.

Could be your fuel sucks, too low of Cetane, add some real lubricant and cetane boost. Cetane is almost the opposite of Octane when thinking about how it works. increased Octane creates a more resistant ignition to prevent autoignition in a gassers cylinder, but increased Cetane makes it easier to combust the fuel in diesels.

 

[Odlaw]

I would put a gauge on the LP and make sure you're getting solid pressure to the IP......and in your case make sure it holds the pressure overnight. I took TD's advice and picked one up on the cheap at harbor freight. Connected it after the drain valve and open the valve. After truck is shut down I was reading 7 psi on the gauge....let it sit overnight and still was showing 7 psi the next morning.

 

[beerwolf]

I did retighten the resistors a week or so ago. On all three they were loose.
The fuel I get is from the same pumps that the big rigs get theres. Should I replace the crush washers on the injectors? They are Bosch 973.

 

[Acesneights1]

I would time the IP before you do anything else. You have a 95. Get GMTDScan. It's a bit of a PIA in the beginning but once setup it works very well.

 

[3bals]

You said that you plugged in your block heater, but did it actually heat up?

 

[buddy]

Big Rigs might be a lot more tolerant of fuel, and you need to know if it is #1 or #2.

 

[beerwolf]

It did start after I plugged it in, so I assume it worked. I only drove it far enough to put it in the garage so I can work on it. I will be trying the trick with using 2 stroke oil.

 

[beerwolf]

My truck was plugged in since yesterday and it fired up immediatly. Could this mean the GP controller is not working? Its warm out at +4c.
I got the POP tester and tested the spare set of injectors they seem to be fine with a good spray pattern. I will put my old GP controller in and try that one.

 

[buddy]

Could be, did you still get the smoke when starting?

You said you replaced those things like a month ago and it didnt resolve the issue. Kind of led us another way. Is power getting to the glo plugs during the cycle?

Pull some out and see if their wet or just see if they work when you apply 12V to them. They need to be grounded to test them.