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The "RAG-INCIDENT" (part one and two)

Ratman

6.5 Diesel NUTCASE
Messages
391
Reaction score
22
Location
Pac NW USA
This is sort of a long one...

Well, as some of you may know, I began a project over a year and a half ago when I lost a headgasket on my '94. It began with cracked heads, then progressed to small cracks in several pistons. The rig had 200k original miles, -never anything done to it except for the infamous DS-4 pump/pmd replacements by the previous owners.

I decided it would be in my best interest to tear the engine down and do it right. Well, -all was going well, -until I found a small crack in #2 and #3 main webs. You know the type, -caused from the 12mm outer main bolts in the 599 block splitting the edge of the hole open. So, at this point, I decided to look for another block.

Well, I wasn't able to turn anything up, -so I started looking at new blocks. I got on the phone, and ordered one from Diesel Direct, -along with a supposed "forged" crankshaft. When the block/crank shows up, it is a mess. I mean to tell ya, -it looked like they dropped the thing off a ten story building. The crankshaft was broken in two, -and definitely not forged.

So, after much stress and legwork working with Diesel Direct, I was able to get all my money back. Kudos to Kris at Diesel Direct for coming through, -despite the stress in the interim.

So, off to find another block and crank. One of the fellas on the other forum knows I was looking, and sends me a PM. He happens to have a year 2000 506 that is in pretty mint condition, -and the price was right. SO, I decide to order a Scat crank and get this 506 from the guy. The 506 shows up, and it becomes obvious that it needs bored/decked, -no biggie. I take it to a very respectable machinist and have the full meal deal done.

I order new heads from Clearwater, Felpro gaskets, Clevite bearings, and new Mahle 18:1 marine pistons. At this point, I am clearly committed to doing this sucker right. It goes together beautifully, -and is blueprinted every step of the way. Every dimension is logged, -and put into a spreadsheet.

The DS-4 had sat on the bench for better part of a year, -caplugged, bagged, no issues, -just bolt it up and rock and roll, -right? Hah, -fat chance. I had all the injectors gone through, -new nozzles, all the pop pressures evenly set, etc.

So, initial test-fire time....

I light the thing off, and bleed all the lines, -but there is a problem. The timing is waaay off, -and the thing ain't running right. So, I go through the motions of resetting the pump, fooling the ECT, doing the TDCO learn, etc, -yada yada. The pump will not time, -something is wrong. SO! Off comes the intake. I make a few calls to round me up another DS-4, -not hard to find with all the PMD-related "pump-failures". So, I get the "test" DS-4, -and install it, -and voila, -the thing times-up just fine. At this point, I am ecstatic. Realizing the loaner pump has to be returned, -and the fact that it idles weird, -and that I have absolutely NO history on it, -I leave the intake off until I can get the pump issues resolved. I decide to cover the intake ports with shoprags to keep the dust/dirt out until the next day.

Now, as you can imagine, I'm feeling pretty "giddy" right about now, -except, my buddy is coming over with his Modis the next day to check my timing (might run the loaner pump a while to break the engine in), -and I wanted to see how the thing idled cold one last time. By now I have a couple glasses of wine in me, -the radio is turned up, -and I've gotten a couple of phone calls. I decide to jump in the truck and give 'er one last run before calling it a night. BIG MISTAKE. The thing fired RIGHT up, -and it didn't take long for me to realize there was a problem, -it hit me in the head like a brick. I suddenly realized what I had done. I opened the hood to get the damage report. Bad news indeed, -there's coolant splattered out of the #5 intake port with about two-thirds of a shop rag inside the port. At this point, I can hear my coolant reservoir sucking down, -and it literally sounds like someone is taking a leak into my oil pan. I'm thinking, -oh no, you've got to be kidding me. So I grab a wrench, and a drainpan and whip the plug out, -yep, you guessed it, lots of green stuff. At this point, my heart is in my stomache.

(to be continued in part two).
 
The "RAG-INCIDENT" (part two)

So, after reading part one, -you probably think I'm writing some sort of a fiction novel, -I wish that were the case.

So, after the rag incident, the engine comes back out and gets torn down. The damage report, -a cracked cylinder wall in #5, -literally from top to bottom. A bent #5 intake valve, a collapsed skirt on #5 piston (actually cracked in the undercut for the oil ring groove), -and a very questionable rod. The Scat crank survived, -with the exact same straightness as it had before the incident. I logged all that stuff, so it was easy to compare.

So, after MANY phone calls to guys "in the know", I decide it may not be a bad idea to re-visit my 599 block that has the small cracks in the outer bolt holes. One local shop said that at least four out of five 6.5's they rebuild have cracks in exactly the same place. They rebuild about 30-40 6.5's a year, -and they also re-use the blocks (and factory bolts to boot), -the bottom line? -not one has failed yet.

So, by now the gears in my head are turning. I get my 599 block tanked and have a closer look at it. I also have a mechanical engineer that I work with look closely at it. He actually models the web in solid works and calculates the stress concentration around the bolt holes. He stated that the main reason for the high torque value was to stretch the fasteners adequately so that they do not "fatigue-cycle", -which would cause a fastener failure in short order. He also concurs that using studs would likely be a good solution. The two cracks (#2 and #3) also ended at the bottom of the threaded holes for the outer bolts. He also said that the cracks clearly exhibit that they were caused from the stress that the fasteners placed on the web while being "wrung-out" in the holes. Clearly, GM knew the same thing, -hence the update from 12mm outer to 10mm outers on the later blocks.

So, ARP, here I come.

The 599 was built with the entire bottom-end studded. I special ordered the studs so that they could be threaded ENTIRELY into the holes. The 599 build went smoothly.

Some bearings were replaced, -along with a pushrod, and a new intake valve in the one head. One piston and one single ringset were replaced as well. I also opted to replace the #5 rod, -just for good measure.

Now, since I needed a new injection pump, I decided since I had the NV-4500 manual trans, -it was a no-brainer to ditch the DS-4 and go with a cranked to the max DB-2. Some minor bracketry mods to clear the 97+ crossover, a custom made fast-idle solenoid bracket and arm, a set of '93 injection lines, and voila! No more DS-4!

The 599 engine runs like a top with the DB-2. I set the timing using a snap-on MT-257 transducer-style timing adapter. My initial timing is 5 degrees BTDC. The response of the DB-2 pump is awesome. When you call for fuel, -you get it. The turbo response is lightning-fast with the mechanical pump. As far as fuel rate goes, -well, not quite as much as I had hoped for, -but the driveability with the cable-controlled IP is much better than the fly-by-wire DS-4, -I ain't lookin' back.

So, the ending to this long story, -the engine has 600 miles logged on it since the build, and runs like a swiss watch. Power is excellent. EGT's are right close to 1000F (pre-turbo) with all the coal on the fire (at 15 PSI). The static CR came out to around 19:1, -which in my opinion is a good compromise. Cold starts aren't a problem, -a little smokier than the 21:1 was, -but not too bad. After 10 seconds at 50F, she smoothes out and cleans up nicely. The best part is the 19+ mpg it's getting.

I love this new motor, -and I hope the studs do the trick. Just driving the truck around for the last two weeks or so has reminded me why I relentlessly plowed through this project from the very beginning. These trucks just drive so nice, -and are roomy and comfortable. And now, I can start catching up on getting all the stuff done that I've needed a truck for (but been without), for the last year.......

Another happy 6.5'er!
 
I was in the shop when my buddy fired up his rebuilt 403 (Smokey n Bandit TA) engine in his cutlass... its started blowing chunks out the exhaust, little pieces of rags! He did the same thing... Didn't hurt his engine however, sorry to hear about yours.

I love the way mine drives too, tons of power, economy, reliability... can't beat it.
 
Congrats, Rich - That's quite a story. Thanks for taking the time to share. We love these 'happily ever after' endings. Terrific.

Rob :)
 
Can you provide part numbers for the studs that you used? I am going to be rebuilding my motor in the next few months and it sounds like the studs are gonna be a good alternative to the bolts.
 
Thanks to all who lend their sympathy, -even though it was an inexcusable mistake. One thing about the whole ordeal that shocked me was the fact that the head survived, -literally unscathed.

Heck, even the valve guide that had the bent valve was ok. I also replaced the one lifter that had the bent pushrod, -even though it was probably alright.

I can't say enough good things about the way this engine runs. Like I mentioned, the fuel rate is "alright", but not what I had hoped for. On the flip side, it runs so smooth, and has very adequate power. The best part is the 19+ mpg, -and that's even flogging it around a bit. I haven't had a chance to load it and work it yet, -but running around empty, she's respectably quick, -as long as I can get 'er through the gears smoothly.

This is definitely one of those things that I will never forget for the rest of my life. Every time I see a green shop rag down at work, it re-kindles the memories of that evening that went horribly wrong. Heck, I was even scared shitless to pull the drainplug out for it's first oil change, because in my mind, I could still see the coolant coming out of the drain hole!

There's a ton of pictures in my photo album, -even one of the split cylinder wall on the 506.

Thanks for the support guys, -it feels good to be back up and runnin'!
 
Can you provide part numbers for the studs that you used? I am going to be rebuilding my motor in the next few months and it sounds like the studs are gonna be a good alternative to the bolts.

Absolutely!

All numbers are ARP.

Inners: AU4.600-KB (10 pcs)
Outers: AU3.965-KB (10 pcs)
12mmx1.25 12pt nuts: 300-8337 (2 packs of 10) -20 total
12mmx.750" washer: 200-8536 (1 pack of 10) -10 total

Don't be afraid to huck your wallet on the counter. Their stuff ain't cheap. I spent right around $240-ish for all the stuff. If it holds the dang thing together though, you can't even put a price tag on that.

I used no washers on the inners, -just moly lube on the threads and under the nuts. The outers get washers. ARP "recommends" a washer, -but they told me it wasn't necessary, -and that a lot of guys run the nuts up with no washers (due to the fact that much of the hardware they make is for other stuff, -and often times, -will come up either too short or too long). It is fairly imperative though that you follow their 3-step procedure to ensure the nuts and threads "bed-in" to achieve a more accurate fastener stretch on your final torque. You'll get a workout and be sweatin' like a dog on a 100 degree day after buttoning up the mains the way they recommend.

PM me for torque values when you get to that point.
 
Rich, reading your story, I think I would have blown a fuse or two if that would have happened to me.I'll be realy carefull with rags from now on.

Happy trucking
 
Absolutely!

All numbers are ARP.

Inners: AU4.600-KB (10 pcs)
Outers: AU3.965-KB (10 pcs)
12mmx1.25 12pt nuts: 300-8337 (2 packs of 10) -20 total
12mmx.750" washer: 200-8536 (1 pack of 10) -10 total

Don't be afraid to huck your wallet on the counter. Their stuff ain't cheap. I spent right around $240-ish for all the stuff. If it holds the dang thing together though, you can't even put a price tag on that.

I used no washers on the inners, -just moly lube on the threads and under the nuts. The outers get washers. ARP "recommends" a washer, -but they told me it wasn't necessary, -and that a lot of guys run the nuts up with no washers (due to the fact that much of the hardware they make is for other stuff, -and often times, -will come up either too short or too long). It is fairly imperative though that you follow their 3-step procedure to ensure the nuts and threads "bed-in" to achieve a more accurate fastener stretch on your final torque. You'll get a workout and be sweatin' like a dog on a 100 degree day after buttoning up the mains the way they recommend.

PM me for torque values when you get to that point.

Will do. Thanks again.

Glad to hear that she is all back together and running for you. Mine is holding together, but I have a bad piston that needs to be replaced, so I figured when I replace it, I might as well spend some coin on her and make her run the way she was born to run.
 
Will do. Thanks again.

Glad to hear that she is all back together and running for you. Mine is holding together, but I have a bad piston that needs to be replaced, so I figured when I replace it, I might as well spend some coin on her and make her run the way she was born to run.

If you change your mind and decide to do a patch job, -I have a good std. bore piston if ya need one.
 
If you change your mind and decide to do a patch job, -I have a good std. bore piston if ya need one.


Thanks. I was able to get a piston from a local shop, he just gave it to me as long as I promised to return the rod.

In the end, though, I want to replace the pistons with Mahle 18:1 pistons. Also, I have been thinking of a DS2 instead of the DS4 that is on it. If I do, I might ask you for your insight into the conversion, since I have no idea what is involved in it.
 
Thanks. I was able to get a piston from a local shop, he just gave it to me as long as I promised to return the rod.

In the end, though, I want to replace the pistons with Mahle 18:1 pistons. Also, I have been thinking of a DS2 instead of the DS4 that is on it. If I do, I might ask you for your insight into the conversion, since I have no idea what is involved in it.

Just let me know, the DB-2 conversion is a piece of cake being you have the NV-4500.

Trust me, -you won't look back!!
 
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