ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
Leroy can get them now. Made by Milodon IIRC.
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The military takeout NAVISTARS and $$$$ to rebuild them
- Thread starter FellowTraveler
- Start date
JayTheCPA
Well-Known Member
Yes, it is for the 4x4.
Mine is an early beta copy and we had to notch the differential to keep it from rubbing. Am sure that this is fixed by now.
Only thing I'd add to the wish list for future development is to allow for about two more quarts. Don't get me wrong, the custom pan allows for at least 8 quarts which is the OE spec, but I'd prefer one that allows 10 just 'cause
Leroy has about as good a price as anybody and quality is great!
For purchasing as part of a new long block, would be nice if the long block price was either discounted to allow for deletion of the OE pan, or better yet, a long block pricing option to include installation of the automotive (custom) pan directly at the time of original build and not by either a vendor (like Leroy) or a local shop. (Leroy: Hint, Hint
)
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That would be nice, but won't happen. AMG is a huge bureaucracy so don't see it. They won't do gapless rings and that sort of thing. I understand their point though. Warranty of untested parts (to them), extra time, logistics for some odd ball engine (to them).
Sentinelist
Active Member
Good observation, FellowTraveler. As one who has just completed the Optimizer 6500 Navistar rebuild process from a military take-out (thread coming shortly- I'm back), I'm probably uniquely qualified to put in my two cents on this. I loved the idea of the P400 but once I realized lightly-used Optimizers were within much greater reach financially - initially - I went that route. Six months later from that decision, let's cut to the chase:
$2850 - Optimizer 6500 longblock
This was delivered freight to a diesel shop from tedstrucks.com in AL, purchased off eBay, motor has 10-40k on it from a HMMWV. Sweet deal! Nice outfit too with good folks and support- recommended.
$1250 - Shopping spree with LeroyDiesel.com and RockAuto.com
This was to purchase lots of 'hey, while we're in there' parts, namely: ARP studs, gapless ring set, BOSCH injectors and glow plugs, GM oil and water pumps, cam bearings, various gaskets, belts, hoses, and such. I may detail out in my thread shortly when I get home in front of the list. Half of this was preventative maintenance parts that I had no idea when the last time they were replaced (injectors), but half were parts that would be needed regardless (head gaskets). Thanks to a clearance deal at RockAuto, this also gave me a few extra parts for the shelf like a couple oil filters and hoses. Also thanks to you guys for guidance on this step earlier this summer!
$120 - Tow truck to the diesel shop
Unexpected expense, as they almost always are. The last time the truck started, it ran, but sounded like it had thrown a rod (hence the motor swap plan, and at 280k I couldn't trust it on anymore long trips with my family at any rate), but it moved. My plan was to crank it back up and limp it to the shop about 20 mi. away. No dice. Even after replacing the batteries, under warranty thankfully, it still wouldn't turn over, and I probably had a bad starter. Eff it. Called the tow truck, will let the shop deal with that when the time comes. Some poor little Izuzu NPR flatbed barely took the truck- it was smaller than mine.
$120 - Precup machine work
I had the diesel shop knock the precups out of the heads and I then shipped them to one of our contacts on here (whose name escapes me now as time has elapsed) in Detroit. He has access to the machine at his work to do this job but was backed up and unable to complete this for at least a month, but I finally got them back and they looked outstanding- went from the oval to more of the diamond aperture for improved fuel flow in the pre-combustion chambers (indirect injection, IDI) to match the improved output of the Optimizer 6500 with the ATT, etc.
$600 - Machine shop work
Once the diesel shop opened up the Optimizer, they said they didn't have the tool to do the cam bearings, but a machine shop the next block over knew how to do them. The motor was forklifted over, where they found some grime in block and said it should be cleaned out. The cams and pistons were also polished while they were in there fitting in the gapless ring set and the motor was returned back to the diesel shop after a couple weeks.
$3000 - Diesel shop work, transplant
After an initial estimate of $1000 to do the swap, the diesel shop I used ended up charging nearly 3x that amount due to the unforeseen challenges, having to strip down the motor a couple times after catching something, and rebuilding it again after the machine shop shipped it back to them disassembled, right after he delivered it to them already assembled. This was probably the greatest unforeseen expense of the whole project. An annoyance for sure, as they didn't communicate well, I had to beg for updates every few days, but by the end I had given up and finally had a working truck ready to be picked up so I lost the energy to care anymore. I was just happy to have it back so I can put it to work on the backlog of tasks I had lined up for it. Also, they got it running without any problem- no idea why it didn't for me with good power before it left my place.
$350 - Afterparty catchup maintenance
This includes the initial oil change that was done 60 mi. after picking up the truck from the diesel shop to dump oil that may have metal shavings in it from the rebuild and initial runtime, which was basically the trip home and a couple errands, a second oil change done 250 mi. after that (a week later) for similar reasons, a horn repair after it failed a safety inspection, the safety inspection, and re-registering it with the state after it had been off the grid for the past 18 months. And replacing blown 12V power point in the cabin. There are several other items to attend to, but that can wait over the next few months- the truck is running and has basically been my daily driver since Thanksgiving week.
Not counted- the basically new A-Team Turbo, Fluid Damper, Diamond Eye exhaust, AutoZone Platinum AGM batteries and AutoZone Gold alternator I had waiting to swap over, and all other ancillaries not mentioned that were carried over from the original mill, like the DB2 IP.
Summary
So, my tally sits at $8290 all-in after 6 months of effort, planning, and much waiting. This is compared to $7300 for a brand new P400 from LeroyDiesel.com, say $200 freight, and another $1500 for the swap at your trusted diesel shop (or FREE if you can do this yourself!) IF all your current ancillaries are good (unlikely- plan on a similar parts spree like I took to save yourself the grief later). And probably done in less than 60-days of downtime from sending over payment for the P400. I still came out ahead, but not by much. If I had to do it all over again, I would be weighing the P400 route very carefully, and likely would have gone that route instead, and had a truck online and working around my ranch much sooner. As such, I may have a louder motor with a few miles on it already, but the shop said it looked practically brand new as well to them with zero wear. So I can't say I have any real regrets except the time lost, and the several hundred more I could have put in over the top to give me the everlasting P400 instead. I'm just happy I have a motor that should be generally dead-nuts reliable now for many, many years to come, and a great truck that I can once again drive. Because picking up hay with your wife's nice Suburban sucks. But I'm overall happy and have put 1000 mi. on the truck since I got it back. Loving it!
$2850 - Optimizer 6500 longblock
This was delivered freight to a diesel shop from tedstrucks.com in AL, purchased off eBay, motor has 10-40k on it from a HMMWV. Sweet deal! Nice outfit too with good folks and support- recommended.
$1250 - Shopping spree with LeroyDiesel.com and RockAuto.com
This was to purchase lots of 'hey, while we're in there' parts, namely: ARP studs, gapless ring set, BOSCH injectors and glow plugs, GM oil and water pumps, cam bearings, various gaskets, belts, hoses, and such. I may detail out in my thread shortly when I get home in front of the list. Half of this was preventative maintenance parts that I had no idea when the last time they were replaced (injectors), but half were parts that would be needed regardless (head gaskets). Thanks to a clearance deal at RockAuto, this also gave me a few extra parts for the shelf like a couple oil filters and hoses. Also thanks to you guys for guidance on this step earlier this summer!
$120 - Tow truck to the diesel shop
Unexpected expense, as they almost always are. The last time the truck started, it ran, but sounded like it had thrown a rod (hence the motor swap plan, and at 280k I couldn't trust it on anymore long trips with my family at any rate), but it moved. My plan was to crank it back up and limp it to the shop about 20 mi. away. No dice. Even after replacing the batteries, under warranty thankfully, it still wouldn't turn over, and I probably had a bad starter. Eff it. Called the tow truck, will let the shop deal with that when the time comes. Some poor little Izuzu NPR flatbed barely took the truck- it was smaller than mine.
$120 - Precup machine work
I had the diesel shop knock the precups out of the heads and I then shipped them to one of our contacts on here (whose name escapes me now as time has elapsed) in Detroit. He has access to the machine at his work to do this job but was backed up and unable to complete this for at least a month, but I finally got them back and they looked outstanding- went from the oval to more of the diamond aperture for improved fuel flow in the pre-combustion chambers (indirect injection, IDI) to match the improved output of the Optimizer 6500 with the ATT, etc.
$600 - Machine shop work
Once the diesel shop opened up the Optimizer, they said they didn't have the tool to do the cam bearings, but a machine shop the next block over knew how to do them. The motor was forklifted over, where they found some grime in block and said it should be cleaned out. The cams and pistons were also polished while they were in there fitting in the gapless ring set and the motor was returned back to the diesel shop after a couple weeks.
$3000 - Diesel shop work, transplant
After an initial estimate of $1000 to do the swap, the diesel shop I used ended up charging nearly 3x that amount due to the unforeseen challenges, having to strip down the motor a couple times after catching something, and rebuilding it again after the machine shop shipped it back to them disassembled, right after he delivered it to them already assembled. This was probably the greatest unforeseen expense of the whole project. An annoyance for sure, as they didn't communicate well, I had to beg for updates every few days, but by the end I had given up and finally had a working truck ready to be picked up so I lost the energy to care anymore. I was just happy to have it back so I can put it to work on the backlog of tasks I had lined up for it. Also, they got it running without any problem- no idea why it didn't for me with good power before it left my place.
$350 - Afterparty catchup maintenance
This includes the initial oil change that was done 60 mi. after picking up the truck from the diesel shop to dump oil that may have metal shavings in it from the rebuild and initial runtime, which was basically the trip home and a couple errands, a second oil change done 250 mi. after that (a week later) for similar reasons, a horn repair after it failed a safety inspection, the safety inspection, and re-registering it with the state after it had been off the grid for the past 18 months. And replacing blown 12V power point in the cabin. There are several other items to attend to, but that can wait over the next few months- the truck is running and has basically been my daily driver since Thanksgiving week.
Not counted- the basically new A-Team Turbo, Fluid Damper, Diamond Eye exhaust, AutoZone Platinum AGM batteries and AutoZone Gold alternator I had waiting to swap over, and all other ancillaries not mentioned that were carried over from the original mill, like the DB2 IP.
Summary
So, my tally sits at $8290 all-in after 6 months of effort, planning, and much waiting. This is compared to $7300 for a brand new P400 from LeroyDiesel.com, say $200 freight, and another $1500 for the swap at your trusted diesel shop (or FREE if you can do this yourself!) IF all your current ancillaries are good (unlikely- plan on a similar parts spree like I took to save yourself the grief later). And probably done in less than 60-days of downtime from sending over payment for the P400. I still came out ahead, but not by much. If I had to do it all over again, I would be weighing the P400 route very carefully, and likely would have gone that route instead, and had a truck online and working around my ranch much sooner. As such, I may have a louder motor with a few miles on it already, but the shop said it looked practically brand new as well to them with zero wear. So I can't say I have any real regrets except the time lost, and the several hundred more I could have put in over the top to give me the everlasting P400 instead. I'm just happy I have a motor that should be generally dead-nuts reliable now for many, many years to come, and a great truck that I can once again drive. Because picking up hay with your wife's nice Suburban sucks. But I'm overall happy and have put 1000 mi. on the truck since I got it back. Loving it!
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I try to tell people all the time the P400 is a good value.
Like you said by the time you buy a Teds engine, shipping, precups, pistons ......ect you can buy the P400 and have a brand new. Teds don't have pistons with the coating for turbo use either.
Like you said by the time you buy a Teds engine, shipping, precups, pistons ......ect you can buy the P400 and have a brand new. Teds don't have pistons with the coating for turbo use either.
Sentinelist
Active Member
I wasn't aware of the piston coating either- will probably not try and 'turn up the pump' and extract more power out of it. Objective from the start is more durability vs power, though it feels notably stronger than the old motor.
I have run uncoated 6.2 NA pistons for better than 60,000 miles at EGT's that would make most pee their paints and ruined engine oil.
I don't loose sleep over uncoated pistons.
You are good for at least a 1/2 turn on the DB2 pump with the ATT setup. You can safely go 1/4 turn on just about anything...
I don't loose sleep over uncoated pistons.
You are good for at least a 1/2 turn on the DB2 pump with the ATT setup. You can safely go 1/4 turn on just about anything...
Big T
Well-Known Member
Joshua, based on your experience with military takeouts, I'd go with the P400. That forged crank is a thing of beauty.