The K-5 and forced induction

[iamdave0887]

Didn't write much about this swap here. Didn't really have the time.

This pictures a few weeks old. I've since touched up the lower intake, since it had to be removed.

Oh. I found the remaining piece of lifter retainer from my other thread. It was sitting inside the oil pump pickup and fell out when the pump was removed to change the rear main seal. Talk about lucky. Thankfully there's a screen in the oil pump pickup. I'd hate to think what would've happened if there was no screen

The old rear main didn't exist. Sounds impossible right? There was no seal in the groove when i took the main cap down, and it wasn't on the crank or on the floor, which both amazed and scared me at the same time. There was rust on the crank where the seal normally rides, so it was missing for a while. That was cleaned with a bit of 240 grit emery paper.

Here's the new one going in. Seals more or less idiot proof if you know how to read. The outside lip of the seal that seals dirt out says "outside" on it. Make sure to offset the seal and use some form of sealant on the two edges where the two pieces of the seal meet.




Going by the 1/2 a main bearing i saw this engine has 20K tops. That bearing wasn't even fully worn in through it's new coating yet.

Rear main sits in the groove furthest from the bearing shell. The first groove is basically an oil slinger.

So far i've hit a max of roughly 3 lbs of boost. I haven't taken it very far, just a few blocks up. I'm slowly taking it further and further from home. The 3.08s really keep both the RPM and the boost down. Short of hammering the life out of the pedal it really doesn't build much boost, but only smokes if the RPM is too low and my foot is too far into the pedal. Max EGTs i've seen so far is ~600*F pre-turbo. The turbine housing is so huge that it takes a lot of exhaust flow to spin that charger up.

It's not as laggy as people have said but that could be because the truck isn't that heavy and it's a stick, versus a 1 ton automatic truck. It does accelerate better as i find myself getting into top gear much quicker.

 

[Koots]

Nice! i can't wait to go turbo with my K5 too!

 

[Acesneights1]

The DB2 trucks seem to lag a bit. even my 93 does. Also I'm sure you know this but I have heard ditching the banks intake for an F intake helps the lag alot. Did you turn the IP up ?

 

[iamdave0887]

The DB2 trucks seem to lag a bit. even my 93 does. Also I'm sure you know this but I have heard ditching the banks intake for an F intake helps the lag alot. Did you turn the IP up ?

I swapped the entire IP with a tested/calibrated one from Accurate. Tim said he gave it the "Banks" spec and a tad more. If the engine's spinning too slow with a load on it, you'll know it when you look in the passenger mirror.

Hottest i've seen is ~600*F pre-turbo so far. Jeff at Banks said the safe zone ends at right around 1050-1100, but you can push it a tad higher. I wouldn't want to run it over 1000*F for long. hell i can't get my pickup to hit that. 900*F max on that one. Always been that way, not sure why as it's getting plenty of go-go juice.

As far as lag, this one isn't awful. It's easily twice as "quick" as it was before. I can hit 50 pretty quick if i time the gears/RPM right(stupid 1st-2nd gap is huge).

I've only hit about 3.5 psi so far. This engine really isn't a screamer due to the 3.08s for gears. The highest i ever had it when N/A was ~2,500-2,700 and that was hammering it. I don't wind it up very far.

 

[Acesneights1]

Is the banks wastegated ?

 

[1995yukon65]

The banks turbo is a non-wastegated design. Friend had one on his 91 v3500, only spooled up to 8psi I think it was, and that was balls to the wall.

 

[iamdave0887]

Is the banks wastegated ?

Negative on the wastegate. Don't think any of the Banks 6.2 chargers were gated. The later 6.9/7.2 ones were, but the older ones were not. 94-97 PSDs weren't gated either.

Certainly whistles a lot though it's pretty quiet at idle both engine and whistle wise. had it around locally(up the street and such) and if i whack it in 2nd the boost will start to climb. Otherwise it stays pretty much at or around 0-1.5 lbs. Never really got on it hard yet or tried to climb a big hill. I'd bet the boost would climb close to 10 then, especially if i tried to accelerate up said hill.

Considering the smoke i can get if the RPM is too low with a load on the engine i don't think it'll have a problem hitting 10. Might even go higher on a hard accel. Since the truck has highway gears in it, the RPM is always fairly low compared to something with towing gears. Eventually i want to go 3.42s and 33s with ~2" of lift(just enough so the tires don't rub basically). I don't want to hurt it's main purpose of being a winter get around rig.

 

[Crankme69]

Nice :thumbsup:

 

[Slim Shady]

As far as lag, this one isn't awful. It's easily twice as "quick" as it was before. I can hit 50 pretty quick if i time the gears/RPM right(stupid 1st-2nd gap is huge).

From the other place post on the ATT

If you can fabricate somewhat i'd go with the HE351VE Holset turbo.

A non wastegated turbo, like the ATT, will lag over a wastegated one. The ATT will take longer to spool up. The non-wastegated Banks charger on my K-5 will not even make the boost gauge twitch if a free rev the engine. If i do the same to my pickup i can hit 2-3 lbs of boost around 3K rpm in a free rev.

The GM-x turbos were designed for boost right off the line, and they do this very well. When a Turbomaster be it heaths, homemade, or whatever is installed the turbo's become a big restriction due to the small exhaust housing.

The ATT has a larger exhaust housing, therefore less restriction.

IF you go with something like the HE351VE you get the best of both worlds.

quick spool down low and no restrictions up high. That's because the HE351VE is a VGT, or variable geometry turbocharger. The exhaust housing can change size within a certain range. The control of said housing was done via the ECM.

Member Dondandd built a mechanical controller for his HE351VE. The turbine housing is fairly small down low and as the boost builds his setup opens the housing larger and larger, effectively lower boost. Spikes of 18-20 are common on his truck, but it doesn't seem to mind. He also has the "weakest" 6.5T block, the 97 506, which was the most prone to cracking around the newly added piston cooling jets.
__________________


Interesting response. The BANKS must LAG pretty close to the ATT ?

 

[iamdave0887]

I had a nice long reply written out, but it's not worth it.

I did not create this thread to argue with you, or to even speak of the ATT. The ATT has no place in this thread, nor do i have to defend what i said on another site on this site.

I stand by what i said in that post from the other site, I don't care how you interpret it.

- Dave

 

[JiFaire]

Okay, that's one each. Please stop the sniping and keep this thread on topic ...

 

[Acesneights1]

Dave, the handshaker has alot to do with it as well when you shift RPMs drop and the SM465 doesn't shift anywhere near as quick as my NV4500 and I get lag from the gm4 and a belch of smoke. I had a long talk with Bill Heath about this and we came to the conclusion that my 4911 is probably turned up and he said that is a side effect of using it with the TM. He said I'd probably get a quicker spool if I cut the Db2 back to stock and less smoke but I woul lose some power. Seein's how I drove a One Stack Mack with a window in the back for most of my life...I can live with the coal...Balck smoke don't mean it's broke. Now you gotta figure your SM465 shifts even slower than an NV4500 and has a larger gap in gear ratios although I have the earlier NV4500 with the granny low so the 3-4 is some what similar to the SM and that is where I see the lag and smoke. Just too much gap in the gear ratio . Old Mack R Models with a 6spd low hole were almost identical to this characteristic. Now I also believe available fuel play an effect on the amount of boost you will see particularly on a non gated turbo. I'm running a 4911 with a GM4 and I can only get about 15 psi max outta my turbo and that is with the TM cranked way up. My crossover probably plays a bit into the in efficiency of spool as well since it is considerably longer than a stock one but the Banks uses a pretty long one as well and the Banks airhat is turbulence central. A peninsular upper would help a bit me thinks. Bottom line that K5 will not pull like a DS4 Equipped truck and neither will my 93 but the trade off is our trucks won't be on the side of the road broke down with PMD / ecm etc etc. I'll accept that sacrifice anyday of the week...

Also, my GM4 won't twitch either with a dry rev. It's the Mech IP. I think it's a slower accel curve. The DS4 really would have been a good idea if they ever could have gotten the thing to be remotely reliable...

 

[Acesneights1]

BTW I saw the thread on the Holset and it was quite impressive. I hope to see it in person someday.

 

[Slim Shady]

Wow guess that came off REAL wrong.
Chill brother, wasn't about that at all. Honest discussion is what I was trying to initiate.

 

[ak diesel driver]

I couldn't make any sense out of the post Slim wrote. Could someone please highlight what was copied and what was new?

 

[Acesneights1]

All of it was copied and pasted from DP . He posted a comment below the dashline. Dave is correct, that has nothing to do with this thread however if you want to look up that thread at DP it is very interesting. That Holset is wild . Something I'd like to try someday. Seems to really compliment the curve of the 6.5 well. The guy is in CT so I am hoping to see it first hand.

 

[iamdave0887]

All of it was copied and pasted from DP . He posted a comment below the dashline. Dave is correct, that has nothing to do with this thread however if you want to look up that thread at DP it is very interesting. That Holset is wild . Something I'd like to try someday. Seems to really compliment the curve of the 6.5 well. The guy is in CT so I am hoping to see it first hand.

Don practically stole that Holset when he bought it for $150. Now that the guys with early Cummins engines have a stand alone controller available the prices of them have gone up substantially.

 

[Acesneights1]

yeah he did. Damn.

 

[iamdave0887]

Had the K-5 out today to work and back. 30 miles round trip.

The only thing i don't understand is that it barely builds any boost, save for hills, then i can hit maybe 3.5 psi tops. At the same time i'm not beating the piss out of it. Highest i saw was about 700*F pre-turbo EGTs today climbing a hill in my town.

I think it's something to do with the "highway" gears it has. Highest RPM i hit is ~2,500 or so in 1st gear then i drop it to 2nd.

Sucker really starts to smoke when you roll into the go pedal though. I did it once or twice just to watch it, but i don't try to create black clouds on purpose.

 

[Acesneights1]

Maybe the turbo is weak ?? Could be a boost leak somewhere with that hihat setup ??? I wonder if an F intake would help.