synth vs organic? opinions please

[ghost183]

the latest "oil analysis" thread and some of its replies have sparked a question

my motor has 136k on it, no leaks of any kind, is it safe to use synthetics?


alot of varying and conflicting opinions from people i know dont have diesels and are basing their opinions on small gas engines.. like;

synthetic is thinner and will leak easier than organic,
synthetic swells seals that have been "taught" organic?!?!?
engine will make more internal noise,
makes more HP?!?!?
makes less HP?!?!?
makes coffee in the morning (pun intended)

so what gives?...

what do you guys think? my motor has been on dealer maintained organic since day one (always documented) and on rotella since ive owned it, and im considering switching but need more info, i know the oil itself is better, but is it better in a diesel? in my diesel? aside from extended intervals, which i probably wouldnt go by anyway and change at 3k like i do now, whats the deal?

im sure some of you guys are running synthetics... why?

 

[buddy]

By organic you mean petrolium based.

Synthetic is a great idea in diesels, and agents have been added to allow better swelling as they used to not where petrol based was better at it. You dont want the piston rings drying up and getting skinny. Engine should run better with synthetic, make more HP and better mpg, slightly anyway due to better flow characteristics and keeping lubricity through greater temperature extremes.

Extended intervals is another good thing, and completely safe if you add some better filtering, like a dual remote kit, or even a single if use a larger one.

You can use lower weight oil, like the 5w-40 synthetic to get a real improvement in hp and mpg.

 

[Matt Bachand]

Largest difference I've notice was quieter/easier cold starts in winter time.

I run 0w40 mobil 1 winter months.

Super smooth and quiet compared to dino oils.

 

[btfarm]

I've been tempted but I've only run Rotella T 15w40 dino since new. Maybe it wouldn't hurt but I'm not real sure. I do remember what old Smokey Yunick said once. "I don't know what they charge for that synthetic oil, but it probably should cost twice as much..." Pretty close to that.

 

[Matt Bachand]

Wont hurt it, only help it. May bring on a leak if you have such a bad seal that it needed replacing anyhow....

Other main thing i've noticed and forgot to mention above was turbo spooling. Synthetic oil have smaller particles and turbo's love em. Smoother/faster spooling.

I switched my truck over around 100k and what a difference I remember overall the first road-test I took her on.

You can buy 5quart jugs at wallyworld for 25bux or so (fluctuates with market of course) Thats mobil-1. They don't sell the filter there though. I use mobil-1 filter also.

I leak about 2 quarts + per oil change, so I take 2 quarts out of one of the 5 quart jugs for top-offs, and it leaves 8 for the rig.

More expensive, yep. Better, yep. Necessary? Probably not.

 

[Missy Good Wench]

I have run Synth and its fine stuff but $$$$$$ More.

If you started a fresh engine on the stuff I think there very well may be some advantages and possibly some good benefits to the engine.

Now that said, when I see a rig that I have run on good O'l petroleum run 250K+ before a teardown and then find thing pretty nice inside I have to ask ???? would more $$$ spent on the trick lube have been better.

A better filter and regular changes (3K miles) also which I am not always very punctual about.

My big truck (Class 8 with 500 Cat) got its changes at 5K miles for the first year of its life and then to 10K intervals . Used Delo 400 15-40 or Rotella T 15-40 for all it life.

Has 600K on it now and going strong. Now the big Kitten takes 10 Gallons per change and has a filter the size of your mailbox

Clean oil that is free of acids and other crud is the key to longevity.
Having oil on the parts such as bearings and other surfaces that contact each other when the engine starts cold is the key to good life.

Say what you will, laugh if you like but in my little rigs (6.2/6.5) I always add a can of the super syrup (STP) with an oil change.

At 250K the inside of the 6.5 looked great. I could have run the bearings for another 250K
Reusing these parts would have been foolish when doing an overhaul so they went in the trash as did the rings.

The beast lost a head gasket so the oil played no real part in the time that it came apart for work.

The cylinders had little wear (.0015" taper maybe) and the crosshatch was still visible in most holes.

There was basically zero ridge at the top.
Wrist pins were tight and about the only thing really needing much was the timing chain that was sloppy (replaced the chain only as the sprockets were fine/ this is common)

As far as starting a new engine on synth, surely might be a great idea.
Changing a high miler over to it?????????/ probably no benefits to be had and it will cost far more at service intervals plus the stuff is not always readily available when traveling depending on what your using.

I like to use the stuff that can be bought at any truck stop in the trucker stores in quarts or gallons.

All Hype and opinions aside. If the oil is clean, of the proper viscosity and rated for your application you should see the engine last about the same amount of miles before your gonna need to open it up. The basic automotive engine has a design limit and you can help that number up or down depending on how you run and take care of the thing.

Clean oil and clean air make all the difference in the world as far as wear goes.

Just some thoughts.

MGW

 

[Wrecker]

MGW, you make some great points about clean oil that is in spec chemically. That is exactly what you need. It just depends on how you get there, through many oil changes or few. Synthetic oil can actually be much cheaper with extended drain intervals.

Take a look at this, click here.

 

[ghost183]

MGW, you make some great points about clean oil that is in spec chemically. That is exactly what you need. It just depends on how you get there, through many oil changes or few. Synthetic oil can actually be much cheaper with extended drain intervals.

Take a look at this, click here.

hmmm... interesting.. "mr biased" opinion.. lol.. just kidding wrecker

i know all about amsoil... been using it for 10 plus years in my toys, watercraft, ATV's 2 strokes, small gas engines.. even my RC gasser heli, but 0 hands on when it came to diesels.. considering the diesels likelyhood to contaminate the oil, thats where my curiousity arose.. is synthetic in fact more immune to contamination? or it just holds up better under the same circumstances?...

on paper, everything looks...... well... to good to be true....seriously, 409k miles without an oil change?!??!.. not doubting it, but im religious about fresh oil in engines and im used to 2-3k mile intervals

im really not interesting in extended the drain intervals.. my interest is better protection.. you know how it is, if it cost me $40 for this much protection, ide rather pay $50 for better protection, small price to pay for peice of mind i guess.. and considering its interval schedules, i dont have to be "religious" and watch the odometer like hawk

thanks guys.. all of you, this is great info..

and matt..
thats for your input pal, better spool up is a plus, and really? quicker and "QUITER" starts? thats even better!!.. 2 of my nieghbors asked me on seperate occassions "what happened to your motor?!?!?" when it was dipping below 0 these past few weeks, lol.. had to explain to them its not my old gas truck, this is diesel and sounds like that till oil flows and cylinders build heat(bout 10 secs)

truck doesnt leak anything from anywhere, which is a big plus.. i wouldnt have bought it, i HATE vehicles that mark their spot.. its a truck for christ sake.. not a harley!! call it a pet peave i guess.. ive sold many a vehicle due to rear "pain in the arse" main seal leaks..

 

[buddy]

The lubricity and viscosity of synthetic is maintained at low temps which is why it starts easier and is quieter, and why at 210 degrees it is also better, and will not burn at higher temps and might help cool the engine a little too.

 

[davo727]

I love my rotella synthetic, Im looking for somewhere to buy it by the barrell since I have so many vehicles running it.

 

[Michaeljp86]

My jimmy had 164,000 miles when I went synthetic and Ive had no trouble. Everyone says you cant change to synthetic on a old engine but I seen no problem.

 

[Dieseldad97]

My truck has been on 0-40 full synthetic for years. I use it all year long. BIG gains using it in our winters. Faster starts, and shorter warm ups is well worth the extra dough IMO.

 

[JMJNet]

There is a myth about Synthetic that it will cause leak. Well, synthetic does not cause the leak, if the engine is good, synthetic has been know to have cleansing properties.

The advantage of synthetic is for extended drain interval, hence saving money. If you are not ready for extended drain interval, then better not go with synthetic. Because it is more expensive.

Although, there are newer good dino oil (Delvac 1300S or Rotella or Delo) now can do more than 3k miles. I have seen UOA with dino for 7.5k miles and it is still good. Break the myth of 3k for OC.

Oil technology have come a long way.

Take your pick, both are good.

 

[buddy]

synthetics of old might have caused oil leaks, because they did not have enough swelling for seals and may have caused seals to shrink. But any good name will not be that way anymore. If it is a Polyalphaolefin based oil it tends to shrink seals, but they add another oil to compensate like diester, because ester based synthetics tend to swell seals like petrolium based oil.

more than anything I have heard once you go synthetic you shouldnt go back, but I dont know if there is anything to that either.

other than swelling seals, synthetics are much better for your engine, and any synthetic with ester does the seals fine, so it makes sense.

 

[ercaduceus]

I run 5w-40 synthetic. Never had a problem. Been told it is better for starts, especially cold starts, because it gets to the top end faster. Doesn't gel like dino? I've read it will hold more particles in suspension for longer meaning less wear from dirt and soot.

 

[Michaeljp86]

more than anything I have heard once you go synthetic you shouldnt go back, but I dont know if there is anything to that either.

I dont think it would hurt anything, I think its all a myth.

I like using a synthetic in old wore out engines, it raises oil pressure and they will run alot longer before they are junk. You can buy a rig with a wore out engine and dump a thicker sythetic oil in it and get a few years out of it.

Thats what I did in my jimmy, it had 160,000 miles and low oil pressure. I change to full synthetic and have high oil pressure and it runs better then a new engine.

If I ever rebuilt a engine I would run full synthetic in it.

One thing about synthetic I found is when you spill it on the concrete the stain is there for years.

 

[packratt]

I was getting around 7K between changes with dino Rotella with good oil analysis. I'd thought about switching to synthetic with bypass filter but was burning/leaking too much to be cost effective.

Getting ready to drop a new motor in. Plan on running dino for the break in changes, already have oil and filters on the shelf for 5 changes. Then hooking up the bypass and running synthetic.

 

[buddy]

packratt what happened to the last engine? You have a thread on that?

 

[packratt]

Haven't posted a thread yet. Waiting to get good pics of the cracks because I know some will use this sticky :nopics:

The short version is: Did a dye penetrant test on 6 & 8 and (pick one)

1. More crack than you local crackhouse
2. More crack than Marrion Barry has in his pockets
3. More cracks than a convention of plumbers

Should have thread up by Tues night.

 

[jamierayo]

im sure some of you guys are running synthetics... why?

If you've ever tried to "pour" 15w-40 at -50 F, you would see why I do.:smile5:. I've never had my oil analyzed, so I don't know about all the other stuff, but synthetic can't be beat for cold starts -especially in a diesel. That justifies the cost for me. I've used Mobil 1 in the past, but now I have synthetic Rotella T.