Sucked Near A Quart of Oil, Temp went to 210.

[MrMarty51]

I dont even know where to begin.
New GEP Optimizer engine with about 2000 to 2500 I had been guessing but reflecting back, the truck since the new engine has done about four of those 60 mile round trip journeys to church and home. Maybe 50 miles in town driving and I had totally stopped doing the daily driver thing with this truck. I now use only the car and the truck sets until it can be drove far enough to obtain operating temps for an extended period of time. I had wrote that ODO reading down when I installed the new engine but now can not find it. I will keep looking. It is here.
Installed the new engine with a new coolant/water pump from Rock Auto. I had ordered according to the AC Delco part number but when the pump arrived it was branded GM original with the GM part number, made in China.
I should have sent that pump back as some of the bolt holes did not align and had to die grind them for fit. My bad bad mistake. I did not change the 195 thermostats as the cooling system had been functioning real nice and even on days in the, and above the 110 degree range the engine never went over 200* F with this Electro/Viscous fan system.
Sunday before last. Headed to church. 60 miles round trip.
Ambient air temp at 66 degrees F. Running near 80 MPH, dont remember exact RPM but I’m guessing 2500 or slightly above.
Electro/Viscous fan system set to come on at 198 according the the ECM/PCM module temperature.
Original equipment dash temperature gauge and RR cylinder head temperature gauge.
Observing the the temperature gauges the temperature went to 205*F.
Slowed to 70 MPH and temperature dropped to below 198*F but on the hills would creep to about 200*F.
Previous old engine would run in the 195 range at this 66*F ambient air temperature.
And after getting home and before this past Sundays journey, installed a set of new GM original 190* F thermostats. Warmed the engine several times and topped it with coolant/prestone.
Before leaving to church on Sunday morning, checked and added maybe a pint to the tank, to get the coolant level above the cross bars within the tank.
Oil level on the dipstick about 1/2 pint low.
Ambient air temp was nice, maybe 70*F.
I turned up the fuel pressure regulator 1/8th of a turn, previous that would be about two PSI increase.
Driving along to get out of town the fuel pressure gauge was going wonky on the LP sending unit and also on the IP sending unit. LP sending unit bouncing around below the 30 PSI mark and the IP sending unit bouncing below the 15 PSI mark. IDK if I like these gloshift gauges.
Eight miles out to the first exit on the interstate. Pulling that first long steep hill, maybe a mile to the top. Temp gauge went to 205*F. I figure with a set of new, old stock, 190*F thermostats that the temperature should not climb to anywhere near that temperature.
Pulled into that first exit and allowed the engine to idle while getting out, open hood and inspect for leaks and such, no leaks and no spots on the tail gate indicating some type of leakage that would be drifting to the rear and marking the tail gate.
Back into the cab, engine had been idling for maybe two or three minutes, temp gauge climbed to 210*F so shut down the engine.
Called AAA and had the truck hauled back to town.
After a while checked the coolant level. Still above the cross bars in the tank, right where I had topped it to before leaving town.
Pulled the oil level dipstick and the oil level was over a quart low and at the moment seemed a bit thin.
The new engine has gone this long and has dropped only about 1/2 pint on the oil level, until now.
My first thought was with the wonky LP pressure readings maybe fuel was escaping the IP and contaminating the crank case.
Later checked the oil on the dipstick and it didnt seem to be thinned from fuel and trying to smell the contents revealed nothing. My nostrils and sinuses are plugged with years of grinding and welding contents so smelling anything at all escaped my senses.
A new coolant/water pump will be here today, ordered a new AC Delco, by part number once again.
And so I will look that pump over and if any thing about that pump looks amiss it will go right back. I will pull the pump from the old engine and install that on this new engine for testing purposes.
And on the oil consumption.
Pulled the upper intake manifold and the air filter to turbo hose/plumbing.
It appears that there is no oil emanating from the turbo seals and such.
One little spot of oil possibly from the CDR.


I had had the upper intake manifold off when I installed the 190 thermostats. The upper manifold had been thoroughly washed using brake&parts cleaner.

Appears to have been a slight mist of oil and there is no puddling within the lower intake manifold.
A new CDR valve is on the way and will be here Wednesday.
The weather here turned kind of bad yesterday, suppose to maintain those conditions today so there will be no work done on the truck today. If the wind calms by the time I get off work then I will begin ripping and tearing into this coolant pump thing.
Being so disturbed with whats going on with this engine, sleep was cut short. Awoke before 2:00am and finally got out of bed about 2:30 and went to the garage, opened the door and removed the turbo plumbing and upper intake.
That was enough I guess because it then began to sprinkle down some rain.
Maybe its time for some coffee.

 

[MrMarty51]

I think that when I have the coolant drained this time I am going to see if there is room to install a T in the cross over hose between the water pump and the T stat housing.
Put a plug in the one side of the T, then if ever I need to change thermostats again, will be able to pull the plug and drain down only the very upper portion of coolant.
There already is the restrictor fitting from Leroy Diesel installed into the water pump and I think that installing a T in that hose will not restrict the coolant flow any more than that restrictor fitting does.

 

[MrMarty51]

I will fire up the engine with the CDR and turbo plumbing removed. Just to check for possible turbo leakage and blow by.
When the old engine was still in the truck, a new seal kit in the turbo and new CDR valve, the turbo was always oil soaked on this side. Dang near puddles of oil.
Also ?
Would it be good to change oil and filter at this stage ?

 

[JayTheCPA]

Some thoughts.

Agree that the new water pump is suspect of counterfeit. In realty though, maybe it is legit, maybe not.

205* is not alarming to me from an operating temperature. Agree that it does seem that something is not quite right in the cooling stack as the temperature is a bit warm for just highway running. Given the behavior, I wouldn't tow with the truck at the moment.

On the oil, if concerned about contents, send a sample for analysis.

And if my read is correct, this is a new engine with 2K - 2,500 miles on it while still running the first batch of oil. If this is correct, FWIW on a fresh engine, I would probably be on my 3rd or 4th oil and filter change by now.

 

[MrMarty51]

Some thoughts.

Agree that the new water pump is suspect of counterfeit. In realty though, maybe it is legit, maybe not.

205* is not alarming to me from an operating temperature. Agree that it does seem that something is not quite right in the cooling stack as the temperature is a bit warm for just highway running. Given the behavior, I wouldn't tow with the truck at the moment.

On the oil, if concerned about contents, send a sample for analysis.

And if my read is correct, this is a new engine with 2K - 2,500 miles on it while still running the first batch of oil. If this is correct, FWIW on a fresh engine, I would probably be on my 3rd or 4th oil and filter change by now.

Found the log book where I installed the new engine. When I get a chance I’ll adventure out and compare it with the ODO to get the actual mileage corrected.
I was wondering about sending in oil sample on first oil change.
A yes vote or a no vote ?

 

[MrMarty51]

The math comes out to 900 miles.
I’ll go back in with conventional old fashioned oil. Rotella 15-40.
Last two fuel filters I got from NAPA, NAPA Gold were like all the others thats on the market. Screw down cap and filter one piece instead of the cap with the removable screw down ring. I was not impressed.
I wonder if their oil filters have gone that cheesy too ?

 

[MrMarty51]

This is the water/coolant pump I ordered through Amazon.
I have read that Amazon has AC Delco distributors within their site. I hope I did right.
If not then please give me the word so I can send it back. Immediately.
ACDelco Water Pump Kit
https://a.co/d/2klYwzZ

 

[Will L.]

Call the Delco tech support line and ask them if that is the right source from amazon.

Where did you get the new GM stats?
Pull & test they open when they should.

No such thing as too many oil changes in fist 5000 miles of a new engine.

You have 900 miles on it now?
How long did you run the break in oil?
Still running conventional to seat rings after the break in oil, right? At 5000 miles and you are sure rings are seated- then go to synthetic if it’s in the plans.

Remember when breaking in an engine- very rpm a lot. Once you dump the firat batch of break in oil - beat that thing like a rented mule is the common practice. Then by time you get 3,000 miles on it you take it to normal status.

 

[JayTheCPA]

Good plan on sticking with dyno oil for now.

Rotella is certainly a good blend. For the first 5,000 I went with STP in my recent engine replacement. At almost 4 gallons per oil change, I wanted a compromise of good enough reputation and price. So STP for the win during break-in.

 

[MrMarty51]

Call the Delco tech support line and ask them if that is the right source from amazon.

Where did you get the new GM stats?
Pull & test they open when they should.

No such thing as too many oil changes in fist 5000 miles of a new engine.

You have 900 miles on it now?
How long did you run the break in oil?
Still running conventional to seat rings after the break in oil, right? At 5000 miles and you are sure rings are seated- then go to synthetic if it’s in the plans.

Remember when breaking in an engine- very rpm a lot. Once you dump the firat batch of break in oil - beat that thing like a rented mule is the common practice. Then by time you get 3,000 miles on it you take it to normal status.

I screwed the pooch bad.
900 miles and still on the break in oil.

 

[MrMarty51]

I think I struck gold.




But not using the gasket that came with it.

It does have a couple of small tears in it.
I do have a couple of the blue gaskets that I’ll use some No2 permatex on.
And a new backing plate gasket too.

 

[MrMarty51]

Too tired tonight to go any farther.
Tomorrow will be getting ready to go to the cabin, come home Sunday.
See how I feel after I get home.

 

[DieselAmateur]

x2 on working it hard to seat the rings, don't baby it. Hook it up to an unloaded trailer and do some short drives/ pulls, anything to vary load and rpm will help

 

[Will L.]

Yeah… you wanna change that oil & filter asap. The longest of any of the break in oils is 500 miles that I can think of. Most are 400.

I would run the next oil (regular oil)for 500 miles then change it and the filter again.
No point in testing this or the next oil because we know you ran it a little long…

I know you aren’t having fun with it but I would be interested in a compression test and a leak down test at that 1400 miles oil change.
Do the compression test & leak down test before draining the oil. Ifnthe rings aren’t seated then I would add back in a really rough break in oil and force those rings to seat.
Hate to say it but I don’t think yours are seating.
But you have to help out those bearings some right now.

 

[Big T]

The math comes out to 900 miles.
I’ll go back in with conventional old fashioned oil. Rotella 15-40.
Last two fuel filters I got from NAPA, NAPA Gold were like all the others thats on the market. Screw down cap and filter one piece instead of the cap with the removable screw down ring. I was not impressed.
I wonder if their oil filters have gone that cheesy too ?

My Optimizer 6.5 consumed 1.5 to 2.0 quarts in the first 1,500 miles, then stopped consuming oil.

 

[Big T]

I screwed the pooch bad.
900 miles and still on the break in oil.

You’re only supposed to run the break in oil for 30 minutes! I then ran Delo Synthetic Blend 15w40 for the next 500 miles. I just did a road trip to get that in and it was virtually all highway miles. Yeah they say vary the speed, but with an automatic the engine speed does not vary much. I did some of that first 500 locally in Montana to get that variable speed. At 500 miles another change with synthetic blend. Did another trip and got it to 900 before hitching up the trailer with tranctor and fencing on it and headed south 1,200+ miles. That was the real break in.

Lost a quart or so up to 1,000 miles and another up to 1,500 and nothing since. Still have 900 miles to go on that second oil change. I hit 210 on the ECT on the first grade in CA south of Vegas. I pulled over half way up and let it cool off. Proceeded again and hit a major traffic jam at crawl speed up the rest of the grade and all the way to the next rest area because a f’n Prius had broken down in the traffic lanes. As a result, it never got that warm again.

 

[MrMarty51]

I sometimes think I’m loosing a lot of memory.
After installing a new or rebuilt engine, and there has been many, that was the thing on My mind, changing that BI oil within that 500 miles. Religousely.
I did get it right on one aspect.
Eastern Montana is loaded with hill after hill. Maybe two to three miles to the tops of most of them.
On the uphill grades, laid into the throttle, up to about 60 MPH then back out of it, hard into acceleration and back out.
Down hill grades about the same, but, tried to hold the decelerations for as long as possible.
After about ten miles up to about 75 and back out of it. Hard accelerations and decelerations.
The last couple trips to church didnt accel/decel as hard but varied speed, up to 80 MPH for several miles then back out of it, down to about 60 then back into it.
The last trip over two weeks ago I had forgot about varying speeds, accel and decel and had run a fairly steady 80 going over. Coming home didnt like the heat being created so backed off to about 70 or a little more.
Thursday heading to the lake and need to drag along a boat on the trailer.
Maybe I should change the oil and make an attempt at that.
Leave town early and if there is any sign of trouble turn around, come back home and rehitch to that borrowed Dodge pickup then wait for my son and the other party to get ready to travel that 150 miles.

 

[SnowDrift]

Lots of different suggestions on how long to run the break-in oil.

 

[MrMarty51]

Lots of different suggestions on how long to run the break-in oil.

I was reading that. Some says up to 1,500 miles.
I reached out to QS Tuning and asked their opinion.
I’m on my way to WM this morning for some 15-W40’Rotella.
Not yet decided on brand of oil filter. Seems everyone is suggesting the bypass type of filter.
Is that what should be run ? Probably go with the NAPA Gold.

 

[JayTheCPA]

Ok, I'll go ahead an toss in a thought about break-in and the rings.

Am seeing where goal is less about varying the RPM and more about heat / cool cycles for the rings. Am more convinced that the "vary the RPM" advice is just a crude means for getting a heat / cool cycle for the rings as opposed to making the population understand the mechanics of seating the rings via heat / cool cycles. Put another way, people will more easily understand "vary the RPM" as opposed to trying to teach them about thermal expansion, blowby, and abrasion within an internal combustion engine's cylinder.

For the first 1,000 miles, my ideal is to find places where it is practicable to apply 75% power for as long as possible (heat cycle), and then idle power (with the TCC in a slushbox locked, or MT in the highest gear possible) immediately thereafter for as long as possible (cool cycle). Trying to get caught by a yellow light is great for this technique. In the GMT400 with a slushbox and OE tune, the heat cycle is easy, but the cool cycle is not as effective given that the OE code unlocks the TCC on deceleration.

After the initial 1,000 miles, I then increase the heat cycle to WOT and try to add some load (junk in the trunk, trailer, whatever).

Am fairly certain that the reason not to do WOT during the initial 1,000 miles is due to the extra blow-by and oil consumption while the rings are seating.


For what I'd do at this point with the 900 mile Optimizer:
- Adding to the chorus of changing the oil and filter *now*.
- Looks like the heat / cool cycle was already fairly well addressed, although I'd hold off on towing until after 1,000 miles and certain that the cooling stack is solid.
- Change the oil and filter at 1,400 miles. Get some good WOT / idle cycles during this interval.
- Change the oil and filter at 2,500 miles.
- Change the oil and filter at 4,000 miles.
- Sample the oil for analysis at 6,000 miles to determine the next oil and filter change interval.
- Continue getting analysis prior to each likely oil and filter change point to determine next change interval and when the engine is ready for synthetic (if you want to use synthetic). Put another way, let the oil analysis determine when to extend oil and filter changes. As a data point, on the Burb's new P-400, analysis results had me change the oil and filter every 3,000 miles well past 10K on the engine. Got rid of the truck by 20K and was still on the 3K change interval as analysis continued to show that the engine was still in break-in mode.