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Suburban goes BOOM!

Pillow

Pillow

Recruit
Messages
500
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2
Location
Warrenton, VA
It is dead or darn close to it. It sounds horrible.

What it could be:
- Bad injectors? Doubt it since they were replaced at 150K with new Bosch units.

- Cracked crank? Dunno

- Smoked a piston? Dunno

- Head gasket? No smoke in exhaust and no coolant loss, also oil is clean in pan.

- Crossover pipe issues? I doubt it.

- Rocker arm issue? I doubt it because the noise seems all over instead of an issolated tick. Granted I think the sounds are more from the drivers side bank of cylinders.

When you rev it up quick in neutral is smooths out and sounds normal for a split second. Then revs down and sounds like hell again. When driving it sounds like hell the whole time.

Good oil pressure and coolant temps.

... Any good deals on new longblocks? The wife wants another 100K out of this truck. And she does not trust rebuilds. Any good shops that want to build a Navistar block with Scat crank? A new Burb is like 40K which is about 30 more than I have to pay. Anyone have the Lottery numbers handy ;)
 
I need to perform the compression check for sure. Mmmm fun :)

The Harmonic balancer I did not even consider... The accessory serp belt is perfectly adjusted if that makes a difference.

I wonder if the Timing Chain could be off? Or IP cam bolts messed up?

Bah, the whole thing is just tough to diagnose, but I know a lot of bolts have to be undone to get wherever the problem lies.

Tomorrow I will be talking with a local shop about a Jasper reman engine... 3 year 100K warrantee might not be bad. Or they will be open to installing an engine I provide. We will see.
 
Are you kidding?

Step away from the computer. Slide under the front of the truck. Remove the 4 bolts that hold the skid plate up (if you have one), and look at the balancer and pulley.

The balancer is between the pulley and the timing cover. There is a thin ring of rubber between the outer ring and the inner ring. If the rubber ring is cracked, missing pieces, or oozing out from between the metal rings, replace it.

Look at the four bolts that hold the pulley to the balancer. The bolt heads should be centered between the "spokes" of the pulley. If they are not, that means the spokes are broke or the rubber in the pulley has let loose and the pulley needs to be replaced.

It won't take you more than 10 minutes, maybe 20 if you have to find a 15mm wrench to remove the skid plate.

Better yet... try to take apicture of them and post it on here. Then we'll be better able to say "yae" or "nae".
 
OK ready for the lashing...This isn't diesel place or what's it's become. We need more symptoms or better yet use the new improved diagnostic checklist. You say it sounds horrible ? Like what ? Knocking ? Rough idle ? Is there any smoke ? What color ? Any codes ? See where I'm going with this ? Just saying it sounds horrible is too vague. Need more info. Diagnosis before ordering a new engine.
 
I agree with Aces. Adrian, you need to take a deep breath and do the diagnostic checklist. If you have a video camera and can post a video, that will help. Photos of your Harmonic Balancer will also help. We're here...

Rob :)
 
I agree I need to get a hold of myself... Unfortunately my time under the hood has been short, getting home at 8-9 every night this week has not helped in diagnosis.

This evening I did have a chance to crawl under her. The balancer looked good so I think it is not the issue.

- Heath turbo master set at 13PSI.
- No SES light at all.
- does not eat oil. I never have had to top it up between oil changes every 5K miles.

The bad is that either oil or coolant is mildly leaking out of the drivers side of the engine. I suspect this might be a head gasket issue. But still does not explain the noise.

The compression tester kit I have does not have a bung that is correct for the glow plug hole so more work needed there on diagnosis.

I did crank her up and move it around the driveway! It did not grenade :) This is important - when it is revved up or under load it sounds fine! Perplexing isn't it. Tail pipe smoke (or lack there of) is clean as a whistle like normal.

At the moment I have come down to:
- head gasket - still does not explain the noise.
- rod/piston broken - smooths out due to turbo pressure driving it back home.
- A stretch but a collapsed exhaust crossover pipe?

FWIW the Jasper engine installed would be $7100... Not acceptable.

Maybe on Sunday evening I can get a friends camcorder and take a video to post. More helpful than any amount of typing can convey.

Thanks!!!
 
>use the new improved diagnostic checklist.<

... Do we have one here? If we do I am not sure where to find it. I searched under "diagnostic checklist" and only found this thread.

???
 
Has anyone thought he may have an open injector. They sound like a rod knock when idling and up to about 1300 rpm then the noise starts to go away.
 
If you have a coolant leak you would be adding coolant. Have you had to add any ? Sometimes it's easier to get back to basics. Like Slim said. Maybe crack the injector lines one at a time and try to isolate the cylinder. Also taking the serp belt off will eliminate any accesories that might be doing so that is also good advice. 7100$ is nuts. Find an old school bus on ebay(sorry Kev :) ). Sometimes you can pick one up for less than 2k. Cut it up for parts. Also in a pinch a 6.2 can be made to work. They are much cheaper and easier to find. You still did'nt give us a better idea of the noise. Is it a knock ? a ralltle ? Sound like a hammer hitting the block ? I have seen an alternator bearing let go and sounded like the motor was coming apart.
 
Diagnositc Checklist:

0. Describe in detail the problem you are having. Please be as descriptive as possible. Sounds like it is about to explode when ruuning light load. Smooth as normal when revved up quickly. Clean exhaust. Minimal coolant loss.
1. Does the engine crank, or 'turn over'? Yes, runs fine except for death noise.
1a. Does the engine start and run? Yes.
1a1. If the engine does not start - Crack injector line: do you have fuel? Yes/No
1b. Do you have a Wait To Start Light & the amount of time (seconds) lit.
1c. Ambient Condition (temperature outside indicate F or C) _____ °
1d. Engine Cranking speed (if you have an accurate tachometer).
1e. Are you experiencing stalling?
1f. If Stalling, describe (upon startup only, down the road, hit a bump etc)
1g. If Stalling, do you notice loss of dash or instruments?
-note if experiencing stalling,you must indicate PMD location in #24.

1h. Check turbo inlet and air filter for obstructions. Cone filters have lost disk and stopped air to turbo. Air filter and intake are clean. Minimal oil from CDR.
1i. In a no-hot start, pour a bottle of room-temp water on the injection pump. Does it start now? yes/no
1.1 Lift pump test - describe results Lift pump is newer AC Delco unit and works great.
2. Service Engine Light while running?- on/off/intermittent No SES
2a. Service Engine light does glow during start/cranking/bulb check: Yes/No Yes, glows and then goes out.
3. Model year 1999
3a. Odometer reading (indicate if in miles or km) 178,000 miles
3b. Miles on major engine components if been replaced (example Injection pump) IP age unknown, new Bosch injectors at 150K. Otherwise untouched engine.
3c. Indicate the model number on the Injection pump (starts DS4 or DB2......) DS4? Electric one.
4. Have you scanned for engine codes? (varies by pre/post 96) yes/no No, but the SES is clean. If needed I can scan it with AE.
5. List exact results on engine codes: None
6. Air Filter condition (visual check) Clean and fairly new.
7. Fuel filter condition (freshly changed/condition unknown/mileage since changed) Newer Baldwin fuel filter.
8. Condition of Battery terminal connections (removed, cleaned and tightened) All recently replaced/upgraded.
8a. Known condition and age of the batteries. About 1 year.
8b. Are batteries of differing age or are they a matched set? Matched set
8c. Condition of Major Grounds. (same drill as batt - removed, cleaned, retightened) The ones I know about are clean... I have not chased them all.
9. Upon cold start, does the radiator hose get hard quickly? Yes/no No.
10. Upon cold start, do you have excessive white smoke? Yes/no No.
11. Do you have excessive cranking time before the engine starts? No, starts up right away.
12. Have you used the block heater, and does this effect engine starting?(only try for starting problems)
13. During hard acceleration, do you have excessive black smoke? Yes/no No, clean tail pipe at all times.
14. Do you have any unusual exhaust smoke issues? No
15. Turbo check out - pass/fail Pass, rebuild GM-8 from Kennedy at 150K
16. Do you have an EGR on the engine? (An F or an S engine code 8th VIN digit) No
17. Indicate if you know if it’s a 1500, 2500, 2500HD, 3500, 3500HD. 2500
18. Indicate fuel that you are using: Bio-diesel, #2 Diesel, #1Diesel, SVO/WVO, other Regular truck stop diesel. I think #2. I also add Stanadyne fuel treatment on every fill up. Every once in a while Marine outboard 2 cycle oil.
18a. If running a VO (Veggie Oil fuel) setup, indicate details of your conversion (homemade, or packaged system)
19. Are you using any fuel additives? If so, please list. I also add Stanadyne fuel treatment on every fill up. Every once in a while Marine outboard 2 cycle oil.
20. Please indicate geographic region you are in: (example: Texas or Canada) Virginia
21. Do you have any service history available that might pertain to the problem you are having? Not that I am aware of.
22. Please indicate any modifications to the vehicle that might help us diagnose better. Heath HP4 chip and Heath turbo master at 13 PSI.
23. Upon unscrewing the fuel cap, do you have a large vacuum formed in the tank? yes/no Yes I did, but then I took the check valve out to remedy the vacuum.
24. Location of PMD/FSD? On the pump/remoted over intake/remoted out of engine bay (please specify placement specifically) Heath remote mount PMD kit on front skid plate.
24a. If remote mounted, describe wiring harness (homemade or purchased from a vendor?) Normal Heath harness.
24b. Indicate the location and condition of the FSD/IP grounding wire. The ground wire is in good shape and I checked it out last week. Removed and cleaned the contact surface.
25. Are ALL glow plugs in proper working order as per this thread? Yes all glow are in good shape... Even though they are Welmans/wap.


I am still arranging to borrow a video camera to post some live action.

Tried the serp belt and all sounds the same with the belt off.

Still need to find a compression tester that fits. Also I want to try and crack the fuel lines to issolate the cylinder like SS was talking about.

Thanks!!!
 
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Well I'd say without being able to see it first hand you gotta try to see where it's coming from. Do simple stuff first.
Serp belt.
Then check balancer.
Then move on to cracking injectors looking for noise to go away. Then compression check. A noise as loud as you describe should not be hard to pinpoint. good luck. Report back. Are you near any membersw that could give it a listen ?
 
You have a TurboMaster:

- If you left the vacuum pump in place, check that the plastic lines are still attached properly to the pump and the other end is plugged into the wastegate solenoid.

Your engine will sound awful otherwise...
 
Good catch I did not specify.

The vacuum pump and hoses have been removed. A 1" shorter belt is in place.

... Still waiting to get the dang video camera. :(
 
CheeseSteak said:
You have a TurboMaster:

- If you left the vacuum pump in place, check that the plastic lines are still attached properly to the pump and the other end is plugged into the wastegate solenoid.

Your engine will sound awful otherwise...
Click to expand...

My has been screaming for the longest recheck the HB again and lookover the Vac pump.
 
Update:

Checked/changed the injectors on the drivers side. No difference.

Checked the glows on the drivers side. All looked good.

Also to note everything was clean. No water or oil mess on the glow bodies or injectors.

... This leaves me only with the harmonic balancer left to blame! So I took it off today... It looks fine, but I ordered a new setup from Rock Auto anyway. At this point I cannot splurge for the FluidAmp $$$.

Here is a kicker! The outer pulley balancer is $295 from the dealer! The inner harmonic balancer is only $140. Unbelivable!

... In reading Aces post at the other Place it is a good bet this is the issue. But still in taking my old ones off they look okay to the eye.

More to come!
 
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