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Road Trip issues

3bals

3bals

Retired Firefighter
Messages
428
Reaction score
297
Location
Minnesota
Here I am out on the road in my 1999 P30 chassis motor home about 1600 miles from home. http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?28121-My-new-to-me-6-5-L-TD-motorhome
And made it to a Starbucks for wifi. The campground we are in doesn’t have it L

Well, here are some issues that I’m having along the way and one is causing me concern. First thing I did before leaving home was to change oil, filter, air filter, flush and changed coolant (got rid of the orange stuff). I also relocated the pmd with a Heath Diesel kit. I wanted to install an IC, but there wasn’t enough time to do all the mods (turbo rotated and heat shields modified) needed to make that happen this time, although I had all the parts required. Another thing I wanted to do to keep the heat down, was to install a water/meth kit from Snow. I ordered it 2 weeks prior to our departure date, figuring a good day or so for installation and testing. Well, they sat on the order for over a week, then when I called them to see where it was, they told me that it was to ship that day and to arrive at my house in 4-5 days. That would have worked, but it took another week and a half (I’m thinking that they really didn’t ship on the day they said because it arrived 2 days after I left) to get to my house. Another thing that I did was to add an inch and a half more insulation under the doghouse to help quiet the engine noise (you know that telltale 6.5 sound of a hog eating hickory nuts) and the sound of the fans kicking in when it heats up.

Here are the issues I’m having on the road:

1. The first thing that I noticed ( this new as I never had this happen before in the 15k miles that I’ve driven it since I bought it) was that when I would stop for a break or fuel or even for the night, is that the engine on start up, would sound and feel like it was missing and it would smoke (black) more than normal until I would get out on the road and up to speed, then it would clear out and run normal. This problem is slowly getting worse and on the last day I drove it (we are in a holding pattern because of events we are attending for a few days) a DTC showed up PO308. Misfire #8 cylinder. I cleared it and it showed up again later in that day. When I start cold it runs real ruff and smokes (mostly black) until I can get out o the road. One day I tried warming it up while parked before hitting the road and no change. I also noticed that if I try to take off right away, there is little response to the fuel pedal while in drive, unless I rev it up to clear it’s throat before taking off and even then it smokes like crazy. This issue is very troubling, being so far from home.

2. At about the 1200 mile mark of the trip, the engine just quit going down the interstate. I slipped it into neutral and it restarted and ran for about an 1/8 of a mile, then quit again. I was able to coast and get it pulled over to a safer spot to figure out what next to do. Thinking that the added heat from the extra engine bay insulation may have had something to do with it (I don‘t know why I thought that, but I was anxious), I removed the doghouse and removed the added insulation. Still no start. I didn’t think it would be the PMD, as I just took it out of the box and installed it (behind the front bumper) the day before I left. I did check the wiring harness, thinking maybe a rock kicked up and damaged it or something like that. No, that wasn’t it! I then got out the spare Heath PMD kit that I had for my K3500 (that I hadn’t installed yet) and brought with just in case. I plugged it in and it fired right up (WOW). I then plugged the installed one back in and it fired up again. Huh, that was weird! I put the cover back on and continued to our destination for the next day or so. It was about 30 more miles. After a day+ break, we were back on the road. In about 300 more miles it quit again. This time it was in a little more precarious place. I was able to get pulled over just feet before a construction zone where it narrowed to a single lane. I quickly pulled the doghouse cover and switched out PMD connections and it fired right up. I left the working PMD heatsink unit sitting by the passenger’s feet, just like we had to do on the journey home from the purchase of the new to me motor home. This is where it is staying till we get home. The engine hasn’t quit since, so I guess I’ll be trying out that super warranty that Heath has. Just a note: The newer PMD (the one that failed in just 1200 miles) is a grey one and the one that’s working right now is a black one.

So if anybody has some ideas on the engine miss/smoke thing let me know. Hopefully it’s something I can fix on the road. I’m in the Seattle area and have a car in tow and have, so I can get around to get parts. I also have some tools along, but not many. So if there’s anybody in this area that can help, I’d be grateful. I can check this site on my phone and will be to see if there are any thoughts on my issues. :???:
 
I was thinking either injector or maybe even the boost sensor possibly being damaged by heat? And of course it would have to be #8 that's missing. Is it possible to just put in 1 new injector vs trying to make it home without damage? That's of course if I can get at #8. On the bright side, I do have my injector socket with, but I didn't throw in my spare injectors that I have at home.
 
No problem changing just one, a good new one is a better match to the rest than one that is peeing.
 
1st thing, get back to camp, pull doghouse cover and check access to #8, then look for a new injector.
 
If the miss is gone I would leave it alone, I was assuming the miss was still there.
 
Jody, sorry to hear you're having issues... I've heard a few people say they had trouble with the new grey PMDs. Bill will stand by the warranty.

If you can reach #8 injector, I would change it into a good new one. I had a new injector that leaked between the body and the nozzle, would act like that when it started, until the injector warmed up and it would re-seal. Damnedest thing to find, too!

You might also want to toss in some GM SealTabs, just sp you can say you did. (not trying to jinx you, but that miss-until-warm thing is also a Headgasket sign... when the head heats up, it re-seals.) In any case, seal tabs won't hurt anything.
 
The miss is still there. If the head gasket, wouldn't it be putting out white smoke? And, sorry for the ignorance, but what are seal tabs and where do I get them?
 
3bals said:
The miss is still there. If the head gasket, wouldn't it be putting out white smoke? And, sorry for the ignorance, but what are seal tabs and where do I get them?
Click to expand...

The same thing as BarsLeak (made by the same company).

Personally, I don't think it's the head gasket since when we talked on the phone the other day, Jody. You haven't overheated or even ran that hot with it, and if it was a head gasket/head crack, yes you'd be white smoking, seeing coolant loss and most likely contamination in the crankcase.

I think it's related to the fuel filter change. My thought is that you've got a piece of something that got into the fuel line past the filter during the change that is now fouling the #8 injector and causing the pintle not to seat properly. It would explain most all of the symptoms you're experiencing. The "knock" or "ping" would be because of the pintle not seating and allowing that line to leak down, so you have air at start up, COLD OR HOT, in the line that purges out and hence that dead cylinder feel. You don't have the "miss" while running because the line is still staying charged from the IP sufficiently, yet you are getting the black smoke when warmed up and running because the pintle is not fully seating and allowing fuel to leak by, creating a "rich" condition in #8. Now, I may not be right, but it's the only thing that makes sense given the symptoms and conditions prior to this occurring. Thoughts/other diagnoses anybody?

If you're in Seattle you should be able to get a CKO injector from AutoZone or another chain parts store pretty easy to replace #8 and get you home. For the $50 bucks roughly to try the swap out of injectors, a whole lot cheaper than scoring a cylinder/piston from fuel wash on the cylinder wall. Hey, you could always swing by Bill Kenedy's on the way home and drop Pavelholtz's new motor into the motorhome:hihi:! Of course we know that you don't "drop" a motor "in" a P-30 chassis, you lift the chassis up in the air 6' and drop the motor cradle out from underneath, absolutely NO fun!
 
Also, you could drop that bad PMD off at Bill's and exchange it for the Flight Services/D-Tech PMD. Personally, I would never use a Stanadyne PMD, old black style or the new "improved" gray one. The only thing Stanadyne PMDs are good for is using as paper weights or something to throw at the neighbor's dog when it's in your yard peeing on the wife's rose bush:rof:!
 
FYI. The working PMD is a black D Tech and the one that failed after 1200 miles is a grey Stanadyne.
 
Good points, Husker - I also don't *think* it's the headgasket, just didn't want to rule it out, and sealtabs are (in my opinion) a standard ingredient when replacing coolant in these pigs. Like I said, they won't hurt anything.

A lot of people have had good luck with standyne PMDs, but the older ones... I can't remember the numbers, but the early ones were crap, then there were a whole bunch that worked fine if they were remote-mounted, then there were some newer ones that were crap, and I have no experience with the grey ones, although a number of people have reported longevity issues with them. There have been issues with the Flight Systems PMDs, also, ranging from dead to runaways.

No matter how you slice it, you can never rule out a PMD as a problem source. Damn things!
 
Good points, Husker - I also don't *think* it's the headgasket, just didn't want to rule it out (very early HG failures give symptoms like this without a lot of smoke or stink), and sealtabs are (in my opinion) a standard ingredient when replacing coolant in these pigs. Like I said, they won't hurt anything.

A lot of people have had good luck with standyne PMDs, but the older ones... I can't remember the numbers, but the early ones were crap, then there were a whole bunch that worked fine if they were remote-mounted, then there were some newer ones that were crap, and I have no experience with the grey ones, although a number of people have reported longevity issues with them. There have been issues with the Flight Systems PMDs, also, ranging from dead to runaways.

No matter how you slice it, you can never rule out a PMD as a problem source. Damn things!
 
I think the key to diagnosing this problem is the #8 misfire code thrown by the computer and the fact that this started just after the trip preparations which also included the fuel filter change. Not very hard for a minute piece of whatever, post fuel filter, to move its way through the IP, down an injector line, then cause problems when it reaches the injector, either lodging between the pintle and seat or in the internal workings.

Yes, BarsLeak or GM seal tabs ARE good for preventing that annoying seeping at the heater pipe quick connect fitting. FIVE large bottles of BarsLeak did help a little to enable me (along with EIGHT gallons of water) to limp my '94 home the 50 miles from Omaha to Lincoln when both heads cracked between the valve seats on #'s 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 8. It was ok on the Interstate, but once I hit city stop and go traffic, I'd dump a gallon and a half out the tail pipe at a stoplight then start to peg the temp gauge necessitating pulling into the nearest parking area, shutting it off, cooling down, then pouring about 2 gallons of water into the reservoir and leaving the cap loose, then starting the process all over again at the next stop light. Not a fun 3 hours drive home, but the beast DID make it back to my driveway at home!
 
Update:

I was able to pick up a rebuilt injector at Napa. It was about $50 and I get $16 back for the core. The worst part was that I wasn't able to get the #8 injector out. I was able to remove the the heat shields, but there just wasn't enough room to get the old injector out. The turbo is just too close. I gave up and put it all back together. During the process, I found that I bent one of the return line nipples. I was able to bend it back without breaking it off, as I know how easy that is to do.

And, during my drive from one campground to another, I noticed a wheel bearing noise. I did find a shop locally to do the repairs for me. I caught it just in time. All that was needed was tohave them repacked and tightened. The tough part was that most campgrounds won't let you do repair work while in camp. Atleast with the motorhome, I could work on the engine from inside.

Anyhow, I' back on the road and hoping to make it the 2000 miles back home on a weak injector. I have figured out that if I hammer on it from the get go, it clears out and runs normally faster than letting it idle and taking it easy for awhile.

More to come and wish me luck.
 
Didn't feel like pulling the turbo off to get to #8, huh Jody? Lucked out on the wheel bearings, it sucks when your tire passes you going down the road (I've seen that happen, both to some one else, and the rear tire on my Peugeot 504 diesel in college when the tire shop improperly tightened the lug BOLTS after fixing a flat on the left rear - that passed me at 25 mph going down the street near campus two days later. The tire shop wound up paying for a new brake drum, hub, backing plate, four new special Peugeot proprietary lug bolts, rim, and towing bill.
 
One of the guys talked about how he was able to get at #8 with a few Universals, or with just socket and open-end, Jody... might be worth a try.

Good luck, in any case. Great catch on the wheel bearing, BTW.
 
After the PMD change is it still missing and smoking black on startup?
Have you checked the fuel pressure from the lift pump?
Standard Fuel Filter Managers have a last ditch screen in them. You should check and see if yours is still in place. The IP also has a screen. So a bad fuel filter will plug the screens - not puke an injector.

Black smoke is not enough air or timing too far advanced. Timing can be grounds.

You also may have a bad glow plug although they tend to smoke white when missing.

All bets are off if you are getting air in the system and this is the first thing the GM manual says to check for.

If you get a sudden knock like detonation in a gas engine that goes away when you lift off the throttle - pull it over and get it towed. Do not play with that noise. Otherwise your engine can look like my pic after it melts the piston. Weak injectors can suddenly fail and take the engine with it as happened to the PO of my 1995.
 
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