Replaced starter now won't start

[noitsnotme]

Problem: Explain your problem in concise language (ie: Cranks but won’t fire). ___I replaced the starter and now no mil and no glow plug light, I unhooked batteries before changing, have done many tests, fuses, voltage at pcm, even tried new pcm even though did not believe it to be bad? AT my wits end ___here.______________________

Demographics: tell us about your truck and your ambient conditions:

- Year: _1994_____
- Truck model and class (ie: c2500) __2500_______
- Automatic or Standard ___Auto_______
- Mileage: (indicate miles or km) ___190000 miles______
- Replaced parts and mods (IP, PMD, chip/PCM, TM, injectors etc) ______PCM_____
- Model: ‘S’ or ‘F’ engine, NA or Turbo, EGR? ___p NA___________
- Ambient outside temp: (indicate *C or *F) __inside________
- What fuel are you using? (#1 Diesel, #2 Diesel, Bio, VO, WVO, etc) ___1______
- What fuel additives are you using? ___many________
- Where are you located? ___iowa__________

General maintenance: inspect and evaluate the condition of each. When were they last changed?
- Air filter _____?____
- Fuel filter _____500____
- CDR Valve? ___?______
- Coolant – last flushed/replaced at __?___________
- Oil – synthetic/regular, changed at __reg___3500 miles_____
- Batteries – state of charge, (matched set) replaced at ___charged__________
- Battery cables and grounds (removed, cleaned and tightened): _______yes_______
- Glow Plugs - how many miles on them? __?_______ What type? _____________
- Injectors - last changed at ____?___________


History: (Describe how the problem first appeared.)
- What were you doing when it happened? ______changed starter________
- How was the truck running fine before this problem appeared? _____yes________
- Has this problem ever happened before? ____no___________________
- Describe any related factors that might be part of the problem. ______no mil and no glow plug activity________
- Have you checked for DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)? (Y.N) __n__ And? ________


Diagnostics:

1] Starting:
1a] Does the engine start? ___no______
1b] Does the engine crank over? ___yes_____
1c] Are your batteries fully charged? __yes_______
1d] Have you removed, cleaned, and tightened all battery connections? ___yes_____
1e] Does your Wait to Start light come on for a time? How long? _no________
1f] Does your glow plug light come on? ___no______ For how long? _________
1g] Do you see smoke from the exhaust while cranking? What color? _____no___

2] Fuel Issues (if not running):
2a] Can you hear your lift pump working? ____________
2b] Do you get a steady flow of fuel from the water drain (T-handle) ? _________
2c] Loosen the inlet line from the IP – is fuel coming out (Lift Pump on)? ___________
2d] Loosen an injector line and crank the engine - does fuel come out? _________
2e] Do you hear a vacuum (hiss) when you remove the fuel cap? ___________

3] PMD / IP Issues
3a] Location of PMD (on pump, on intake, remote mounted) _____not sure what looks like______
3b] Condition of Extension harness (if used) Vendor or Homemade? _________
3c] Condition of grounds / ground wires to IP / PMD. Check Harness. _________
3d] PMD Make: __?_________
3e] PMD Age: ____?________

4] Stalling Issues
4a] Do you experience stalling only when hot? ____________
4b] Does it stall under particular circumstances? (ie hit bump, or on accel) ______
4c] Does pouring cool water over the IP seem to help with restarting? _________
4d] Is stalling momentary (engine recovers)? _________
4e] Does SES light come on when engine hiccups? _________
4f] Does cruise control quit working when engine hiccups? ___________
4g] Does re-starting seem to reset engine, restoring cruise and power? _________
4h] Changes to dash lights or instruments during stalling events? ___________

5] Running Issues
5a] On cold start, does upper rad hose get hard before engine warms up? _______
5b] Any bubbles or oil film in coolant overflow tank? _______
5c] Any white slime on oil surfaces (dipstick, CDR, oil Fill cap)? __________
5d] Excessive white smoke from exhaust on cold start? _________
5e] Excessive black smoke from exhaust under hard acceleration? __________

6] Performance Issues
6a] Do you have gauges? ___________
6b] Maximum boost under load? ____________
6c] Have you added a performance PCM (reflash) or Chip? ______________
6d] Have you changed exhaust / downpipe / crossover? ________________
6e] Wastegate – mechanical or vacuum? ______________

7] Temperature-related Issues:
7a] Single or dual thermostats? ____________
7b] Have you replaced them lately? Manufacturer of replacements? _________
7c] Have you pulled and cleaned Radiator and coolers lately? ____________
7d] Have you replaced the fan clutch? Manufacturer of replacement? ________
7e] (winter) Have you tested your antifreeze? Good to what temp? __________
7f] (winter) Are you using a winter grille cover? ___________

List and describe any other factors which are not addressed in this checklist. We can’t see, hear, smell, or touch your truck, so the more descriptive information you can give, the more likely it is that somebody can assist you.

 

[chrisk1500]

You won't get a GP light right away after you have unhooked the batteries. Try again and see if the light comes on...

What kind of problem were you chasing down by replacing the starter?

 

[Matt Bachand]

Check your PCM Other fuses in your underhood fuse box.

 

[buddy]

You have under dash fuses right, not under hood?

The Glo Plug and ECM fuse there was tested? And youve checked to make sure there is power at the fuse panel with the ignition on? When you replaced the ECM, where did you get it, and did you move your E-PROM chip over to it? If the E-PROM chip gets fried, done it before, it wont run the glo-plugs.

Is that L49 engine designation, P.

 

[noitsnotme]

Replaced starter

You have under dash fuses right, not under hood?

The Glo Plug and ECM fuse there was tested? And youve checked to make sure there is power at the fuse panel with the ignition on? When you replaced the ECM, where did you get it, and did you move your E-PROM chip over to it? If the E-PROM chip gets fried, done it before, it wont run the glo-plugs.

Is that L49 engine designation, P.

No 1 I am not real familiar with this engine so not sure what L49 means. 8th digit is a P in vin, my dealer said that is engine ID. It is a 6.5 NA. To answer a few questions the starter was bad, so I replaced it. And yes I unhooked both batteries. I did this at the Negative cables not positive. After installing starter and hooking up both batteries I had no glow plug light or check engine light. I checked fuses under the dash, ecm, ign, gauge fuse with test light(good) I tested ground and B+ to glow plug relay and they were good. If I have under hood fuses I do not know about them. There is a terminal on the fire wall on the pass. side with fusable links, the main B+ feed to this is good and all links pass current. Both links on batteries are also good. I tested the B+ orange wire at the PCM and it is hot all the time. The Ign feed Pnk/blk is b+ when key is turned on. When grounding MIL light circuit as manual instructs mil light turns on. I replaced PCM with NEW one and yes switched the prom. Still same issue. Maybe a ground to PCM? Where are the grounds at? Any other suggestions. One other thing glow plug fuse has no voltage either side of fuse. By the manual this looked like a normal condition unless glow plugs were actually on. Am I wrong about this? Could prom be fried? Anything is possible. What is the process of getting a new one. Thanks for all the help. Dave

 

[JiFaire]

Frying an Eprom isn't that easy. Have you tested your glow plug circuit for voltage with the key on? (put a light pencil or multimeter on the glowplug leads and turn the key on - they should light up.

When you unhook the batteries for a while, as Chris said, your glow plug cycle is about 1 second the first time you try to start.

If you got everything hooked back up properly, then the only other thing to look at is pull your fuses and Circuit breakers and check each of them. They oxidize, and it's hard to always tell a blown fuse with a test light.

 

[buddy]

94s like ours had fuses under dash, and then the lift pump fuse where all those inline fuses are and the lift pump relay on the firewall.
So the fuses are good, but is there power in the fuse block itself where the fuse plugs in?

I dont know anyone else with the P engine, but if you buy the USB cable for OBD1 and download the free software from Engh motors, or have a mechanic hook up a scanner they should be able to immediately tell if the E-PROM is working. It will give them back info if it is, and nothing if its fried.

Somehow I fried my E-PROM, but it was when I was swapping it a lot, testing different ECM and E-PROM combos from 94 and 95. Can you get the 4 digit code off the ECM or E-PROM, Im interested to see what it is and look it up? If it is bad, then you can order an aftermarket one for like $275 from Engh Motors, or ask dealer, or some off chance you find another P truck computer with the chip in it.

 

[JiFaire]

The p-series are standard for vans and boxbodies.

I really think the odds of you frying 2 Eproms in a row (the first one, which you never touched until the thing wouldn't start, and the second one, which you replaced for some as-yet-undetermined reason) are somewhere between not likely and not happening.

Personally, I suggest looking for something else - perhaps something you can see.

1] crack open an injector line while cranking. Are you getting fuel to the cylinders?

2] if you ARE getting fuel to the cylinders, then your issue isn't PMD, IP, LP, or PCM.

3] it you are NOT getting fuel to the cylinders, then test the LP to see if you are getting fuel to the IP. We can help you with that if needed.

4] If you are getting fuel to the IP but not to the cylinders, then your issue is PMD, PCM or IP. We can help narrow that down, too.

So far these test have cost you... nothing.

Always check the obvious stuff first before you go buying new parts.

Or not; your call.

 

[JMJNet]

ECM-B fuse. IIRC on 94, it is somewhere inside the fuse box that is under the dash.

 

[buddy]

He didnt buy a new E-PROM, he transferred it from his original ECM to the New one. So he bought a new ECM motherboard, but not new brains. If you have a mechanic friend or friendly mechanic then they could hook a scanner up for free to see if the E-PROM is still talking.

No SES light either, which would lead back to an ECM issue. If you short OBDI pins A and B and put the key in the ON position and get no blinking SES light, then the EPROM must be fried.

 

[Acesneights1]

UNless I'm getting old and blind there is some valuable info missing here.
1) you have no signature so we don't know what kind of vehichle you are working on other than we can guess sometype of van/stepvan etc by the "P". This info will make a difference of where people tell you to look for things like fuses etc.
2)I reread your original and second post and too me it's not clear what the problem/sympton actually was. Was it cranking and not starting or was it not cranking at all before you did the starter?
Need to know these things. ECM sounds likley if it's cranking but from what I have read I'm not sure if it even was cranking. You may have a ground problem One dirty or broken ground wire and the electrical system goes beserk in these truck, trust me on that.

 

[JMJNet]

I agree with Aces.

There were somebody with a no crank starter, turns out he hook the starter to the wrong connector. Not the battery cable but the other cable. Check if you hook it in the wrong connector.

 

[noitsnotme]

Found it today. I Ran another ground to the system ground wire on the PCU and it fixed the problem. I have no Idea where the bad ground actually is. How changing the starter could effect this I don't understand. Thanks for the help. Dave

 

[Matt Bachand]

Found it today. I Ran another ground to the system ground wire on the PCU and it fixed the problem. I have no Idea where the bad ground actually is. How changing the starter could effect this I don't understand. Thanks for the help. Dave

There are a couple of 'strap' grounds that hang around there by the starter, perhaps you disturbed one of those and needs attention.

 

[Matt Bachand]

He didnt buy a new E-PROM, he transferred it from his original ECM to the New one. So he bought a new ECM motherboard, but not new brains. If you have a mechanic friend or friendly mechanic then they could hook a scanner up for free to see if the E-PROM is still talking.

No SES light either, which would lead back to an ECM issue. If you short OBDI pins A and B and put the key in the ON position and get no blinking SES light, then the EPROM must be fried.

Or its not getting power?

 

[buddy]

Yeah, thought he checked power at PCM, as it said in first post, but I guess that didnt include grounds.

Always just happy when someone actually figures it out and reports back.

 

[Matt Bachand]

Yeah, thought he checked power at PCM, as it said in first post, but I guess that didnt include grounds.

Always just happy when someone actually figures it out and reports back.

Absolutely true. Makes it all worth wild and one more tidbit of info for all us 6.5'ers to add to the brain.

Question is, what did this cause us to forget? Wait, thats another thread

 

[just a number]

hew I missed the same thing with my trans computer. turns out I broke the wire off when I checked the fluid.:mad2: