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Propel fuel made from a renewable source

Yes interesting. I will believe they can supply it nationwide when they can. #1 concern for me = lubricity.
 
#1 concern for you will be all the krap lift pumps that are NOT BioDiesel compatible followed by hoses and tank linings failing. Then in cylinder Post Injection event DPF systems will have more fuel in oil issues...
 
Well BIO isn't really a big concern for me because I've been running B5 to B20 for a couple of hundred thousand miles
 
I run about 2 to 3 tanks of B99 every spring to clean out all the buildup in the tank and lines. Then I do my yearly maintenance and change both CAT spin on cans. My truck does run better on B99, but not sure if it is doing and harm to the truck.
 
Interesting.....

I did not get how or what it was made of from in The Diesel Power Magazine article (I might have missed it). The article left me with more questions than it should have.

How does it mix with Diesel fuel, BTU's, Lubricity, shelf life, if it attracts water, or "bugs" etc. What are drawbacks (has to be something).

I googled it and here is their website http://dieselhpr.com/learn-more

"While Diesel HPR does not contain biodiesel, it is made from similar renewable biomass sources including recycled fats and oils. Refined from renewable biomass through advanced hydrotreating technology, Diesel HPR meets the toughest specifications required by automotive and engine manufacturers, enabling the fuel to be used by any diesel vehicle."

Sounds a lot like Biodiesel to me with a fancy marketing name. I hope they just missed touting the lubricity.

Sounds promising and I am ok with California being the guinea pig. Look forward to hearing how it works in the real world.
 
There has been a ton of research done over the last decade in various forms of biodiesel from vegetation. There has been some promising results with algae.
 
I have seen some stuff. From what I have read it appears algae is the most dense source of feed stock oil.

Did you see the one where some CO2 from I think it was a coal fired power plant's exhaust stack was bubbled through huge glass tubes to feed the algae extra CO2 and it helped clean the plants emissions (a little). That one was a greenie wet dream.
 
I think this propel fuel has more or higher cetane than regular #2 diesel, and has less emissions. So in essence, it has more power and burns cleaner than both regular #2 diesel and traditional bio diesel.
 
Cetane is just a measure of how fast the flame front moves more or less. Not sure how it correlates to BTU's of energy. Probably like ethanol costs the same or more to produce and not quite the same MPG.

It does sound encouraging and if they are marketing it at the pump in distribution then it might make it in mainstream. Lots of unknowns though is it being subsidized etc. Still waiting to hear some drawbacks it sounds too good to be true.
 
I just reread their website and they claim....
" Diesel HPR outperforms Biodiesel B20, delivering more power and lower emissions. "

So I guess we can guestimate it has more BTU's than B20 but less than dino diesel maybe. Or they just chose B20 as comparison as its more common or referenced ready to use in newer trucks. Then again lots of Cetane improvers claim more power but not sure they deliver across the board in all applications??? Could be marketing logic that with cleaner emissions requires less regeneration = more power. ??? I am looking forward to "the rest of the story".
 
Here I be! answers are in order: yes no no yes and Tuesdays. And that ladys and gentleman is why I am not a professional comedian.

Ok, yes, I've been watching this outfit for sometime. Yes I would run there fuel, after 6 months of the mass public running it. They have not done any massive fleet wide tesing with their fuels that I have found yet, like when I was at the 76 oils co. and they promptly destroyed multiple bus engines for the C.A.T. bus system here, along with many other engines. Peanut oil sheesh! EL-oops-O! anyways...

Almost all bio fuel is separated at a chemical level from its non fuel products like lye, etc. The "hydrothermical fractionation" is the 1st thing that they are doing different. It is more expensive to do, it produces a better product. They are getting a better "cut" of the fuel by choosing to not mix in more of the so-so fuel with the best part, and are counting on people paying more for a higher quality fuel.
Carbon range is the amount of carbons in the molecular chain, the length of the chain is what determines the product, sort of.

Petroleum Fractions by Carbon Range

Petroleum-Fractions-by-Carbon-Range.jpg


If you have a chain that is c12 it is gasoline, or kerosene, or diesel. Diesel sells for more money per gallon, so where you your refinery put all your c12? It changes by who is paying what that week. Also factor in how many refineries have been allowed to be built, believe me every oil company out there would build more here if allowed to, which would effect lower prices, but that's another story. So the refineries that are capable doing this to bio fuels usually don't, because there is more profit in refining crude oil. Somebody at that outfit is a hell of a salesman to make this risk happen.
Less carbon in the fuel = less pollution. Lower carbon count also = more power within its range. They just have to choose to "throw away" the higher carbon chains to get cleaner, more powerful fuel.

As for the negative effects, bugs: far less likely to exist in this fuel, as the pressures and temperatures that the process uses should wipe all life from anything on planet earth except for those fluttery things that live in the under ocean volcanoes. If the reintroduce some pre-distillation column, they could reintroduce them. HIGHLY doubtful. As for the rubber eating part, I'd fire a 5% possibility. Again the different process does not add chemicals to cause the reaction, because it's not needed. But in an attempt to push product through at a very high rate of speed (faster production = less investment per gallon) they might add some chemical to do part of the work. The biggest thing I would like to know about is their catalyst(s) and how it's used. That would tell tons of the story. Yeah might as well ask Col. Sanders for the 11 herbs and spices! I would buy a gallon, heat it up to 110 F, keep fluid circulating, and submerge an assortment of materials into it for a month to see what gives. Definitely more trustable than most other bio fuel processes.

On the algae based fuel- yep, one of our fearless leaders at the company I work for now has quite the experience with it, He started testin with it in the early 70s, and still is running a couple years more testing. The biggest problem is it takes a lot of acreage to do it, and his production rates currently are light years ahead of anything any one out there is producing now. He simply will not due it until the last problems are solved. He figured out corn ethanol before the current idiots, but would not do anything with it because he new the starvation it would cause around the world, and unfortunately was right. The algae thing is land, and water consumption, but he has the water problem 99% solved.
Currently focused 2 things,#1 on the plastics to fuel recycling, as that can have a bigger impact on the environment by pulling the waste out of the landfills. Regardless of what you all here, way more plastics go into the trash dumps than is publically announced. Huge portions are recycled out from the trash companies, to be returned within the year. Currently we are testing a grain bag that is used for storage on the farm then usually gets trashed, or buried in the back 40 of the farmers land from what we understand. Does this sound familiar to any of you?
#2 Part of that water problem, he can solve a tremendous amount of contaminated water problems world wide. M.I.T. has done some similar work on it, but is about 7/100 as clean as his, this project is not through the company, but on the side, and will require a few million to get it up to scale. Multiple major interested customers in Nevada currently on private and government levels. This guy is an Einstein that grew up on a farm, turned Marine, and won't leave problems unsolved. Oh yeah, the Marines will be the first to get some of his new ammo design, all I could say is ounces = pounds and pounds = pain, and he is a pain killer. 6-7 years out from final testing. If he had 100 million to play with he could probably solve 20% of the worlds problems, no joke.

BTW, our synthetic fuel will kill theirs. no bio, fully synthetic, 100% post consumer, just fighting local bureaucrats mostly now. Oh yeah almost no sulfur, and way more lubricate action than anything ever produced. I have already told my boss I want part of my pay in fuel for the Hummer. The current customers wanting it is refineries wanting to buy all we can make to use as a blend stock to improve their numbers. On their website they have fuel specs, but don't reference either of the 2 main labs in the US as a sourced lab qualified by all refinieries, not sure if they ever have, but if so I think they should advertise it- my 2c.


More questions about the fuel, or if I missed something just ask, you've all figured out I have no problem droning on and on
 
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Wow. Thanks Will. Also, a local bio diesel company near me gets some money from government to produce it. I guess becauae it is an alternative fuel made from a renewable source, as well as made from a waste product. This probably covers some of tbe production costs. The bio diesel is about $3.43 a gallon. Fairly steady prices.
 
Yeah, there is a lot of tax breaks and subsidies for alternative fuels. They don't classify us as an alternative fuel company, more as a recycler because there is not a tax classification made for us. It's kinda dumb imo, if you figure out how to make the thing on the back of the Delorean in the movie Back To The Future that turned trash into fuel that is not an alternative fuel, same with anything else until the federal gubmit decides to classify it as such.
 
The government isn't seeing you as a cash cow like the alternative (BIO=Soy) fuel and energy industries. Get Buffet on board and watch the regulations flow your way along with the $. "For the public and environmental good"... wink, wink, nudge, nudge...
 
Pretty sure we're all on the same page...

Side note, thanks Will for being so forthcoming with your knowledge of the topic. Speaking as an engineer, I'm well aware of how often peoples eyes glaze over when we warm to a topic that we're interested in sharing.:rolleyes: to the most minute detail...
 
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