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Propane Fogger Build-Up

EchoEagle

EchoEagle

* 6.5'er *
Messages
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Location
B.C.
OMG!!! He's gonna destroy his engine!!!!! Before everyone calls me crazy..... I have been reading about this for months now... It's seem as common as ketchup in Europe and Australia. I believe the benefits here are ++.

I have done alot of research and have started aquiring parts. I will be posting pic's as I go here. I just thought I would post my project, and hopefully get some positive feedback from anyone who may have experience on this topic.

some points for possible discussion

1) combustion flame fronts and diesel rattle

2) engine oil issues

3) EGT's and IAT

4) pump timing

Thanks .... in advance!!!
 
Sweet setup there... interesting point of propane = -t and water/meth = +t.

I may need this, cause im not sure if its possible to retard the timing on my 94 S motor.

Also, I'm not planning to have anything quite so elaborate. I'm gonna use an old forklift tank and run vapour only, at very low pressure. Activated at 1-2 psi boost, single stage, by an industrial pressure switch, and an electric LPG lockoff.
I'm going for a city/rush hour mileage shot. Should be good, cause I get free LPG from work.
 
My solenoid was a forklift saftey switch too.

Im not sure how much economy youll get at the very low level of propane youd have to put in at low boost. I guess its worth a try with free supply, as long as the other parts aren't expensive to you. What speeds are you talking about with rush hour traffic? Also with water at low boost would have to be a small injector, like 200cc at 100psi.
 
buddy said:
My solenoid was a forklift saftey switch too.

Im not sure how much economy youll get at the very low level of propane youd have to put in at low boost. I guess its worth a try with free supply, as long as the other parts aren't expensive to you. What speeds are you talking about with rush hour traffic? Also with water at low boost would have to be a small injector, like 200cc at 100psi.
Click to expand...

Mostly 25-40 mph. stop and go. I usually do the whole drive using only the first 1/8 throttle I average about 16.5l/100km and the drive is 20 km 1 way. Usually I run her in 3rd to save my 4l80e about 500 3-4 4-3 shifts a day... the boost is usually in the 0-5psi on that drive.
 
Here's my Pressure Switch

$50.00 CDN
DSCF1025.jpg

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Is that propane tank off the forklift DOT approved (I think they normally are)? I hope it is as if it isn't, it would be illegal to run on the road to help power the vehicle. Also, make sure you mount it properly... I have seen many tanks improperly mounted in trucks. The tank must withstand 4x its weight (full capacity) in 6 principle directions.

Getting LPG for free is nice. But for those that want to use LPG for mileage and have to pay for it... I don't see it being sufficient for "fuel economy" mod... Propane is used more as a "performance enhancer" in Diesels... I personally haven't heard of propane being injected at such low boost but oh well...

Propane is a nice addition, but you have to watch what you run and no the engine limitations to run it. But thats trial and error I guess, just the error part may cost you a few thousand.
 
Green Machine said:
Is that propane tank off the forklift DOT approved (I think they normally are)?
Click to expand...

Yep, that's the principle reason for using the forky tank. Also, I am serious over-kill fabricator, and it will definently be mounted securely. (and plumbed to Transport Canada spec)

As for the minimal amount of LPG; In my system, LPG is a chemical catalyst to more completely burn my diesel. I am not going to the point of using LPG as additional fuel. I will hopefully be doing some emmision testing in the future to see the difference.
 
When I think of rush hour Im not going quite so fast :)

I think the only good thing about your situation is free LPG, otherwise I wouldnt even do it. What might be better though for most people would be WMI, a small fogger with methanol concentration like 1/3. Still a small amount of methanol coming out of a single 100cc nozzle or so. I think that would be better than the tiny amount of propane that can be used at low boost. Methanol too becomes a problem in high concentration for people pushing big 600cc injectors. The WMI can also be staged so that another 200cc nozzle opens up at 10psi or something like that. A small amount of water by any standard but would help fuel mileage, and help keep IATs in check.
 
buddy said:
Your pressure switch looks like the kind Devils Own sells. Where can you get those? I am looking for something better than Hobbs. Thanks
Click to expand...

I'm in Canada... I got this switch from an industrial instrumentation supplier, John Sherman Agencies, 1641 Venables St. Vancouver B.C., 604-254-9622.

In the pictures is the manufacturers info.. you might be able to get it factory direct or from a similar supplier.... JSA sells all kinds of PLC's and instruments for mills, factories, and the like.

Also, I noticed your location... and man.... I was in the LA area last December, and holy crap... I understand what ya mean about slow moving rush hour... like 2 MPH... It took me from 4 pm to 9pm to get from the grapevine to Anaheim...
 
I found the supplier online can order direct. Will probably get a few.

I did read the specs on the particular one you have and it has a deadband of 0.5-1.7 psi, so if it actuates at 2psi, it may not shut off at 2psi, it may stay activated down to idle. That might not be a problem, but it could pose a problem, and you may want to activate at 3 psi.

The accuracy/repeatability is very good though, just plus or minus 0.17psi from the set point

This is another of their products, the "durable" one and even has ingress protection from all dust and water splashing with a cover. It doesnt list a deadband, so I assume its the same as the repeatability. Make sure to place any of them away from heat and vibration to get best accuracy and reliability.
http://www.dwyer-inst.com/Products/Product.cfm?Group_ID=671&Product_ID=1072&sPageName=Specs
 
Another guy made a rig years ago on Diesel Page HowieE http://mysite.verizon.net/vze54tx9/id5.html I don't hang out a Page much anymore so I don't know if he's still into forums these days or even has his rig any longer MGW have you seen much of Howie lately?

If you can find him see if he'll come out and share an update here if he's still using it, once there was a lengthy discussion on the paid members area there, also may have been in a reprint, I'll see if I have that copy laying around someplace.
 
buddy said:
I found the supplier online can order direct. Will probably get a few.

I did read the specs on the particular one you have and it has a deadband of 0.5-1.7 psi, so if it actuates at 2psi, it may not shut off at 2psi, it may stay activated down to idle. That might not be a problem, but it could pose a problem, and you may want to activate at 3 psi.

The accuracy/repeatability is very good though, just plus or minus 0.17psi from the set point

This is another of their products, the "durable" one and even has ingress protection from all dust and water splashing with a cover. It doesnt list a deadband, so I assume its the same as the repeatability. Make sure to place any of them away from heat and vibration to get best accuracy and reliability.
http://www.dwyer-inst.com/Products/Product.cfm?Group_ID=671&Product_ID=1072&sPageName=Specs
Click to expand...

I chose this particular switch for my application based on advice from the salesman. He was very helpful. This switch has the smallest deadband and the tightest repeatability, of the ones he was able to supply me. The web page you found there is great eh... thanks man... thats sweet!! I like the one you linked better than mine.

Also, I had planned to mount the switch behind the instrument panel. Tee'd into the boost guage...(<- would that not work ?) nice and close to my toggle for the system, and out of the weather.

I think it will be easy enough to tune it shut off at the best point, and let it start in relation to its off (ing). This is just for getting the low engagement. I may need to raise the engagement for timing reasons too. (at least till i build a water/meth system, or learn some programming) I'm confident I will find something that works. Tuning is something fun I'm looking forward to!

Come to think of it I could temporarily mount the switch where I can dial it in traffic, between lights, testing its acceleration characteristics. :rolleyes5:
 
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