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Optimizer Schmizer.... I'm kinda irritated !!!

M

Mike K3500

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Alright, here's the dealio I know as well as everybody else here knows that I'm pretty much a :dr: !!!

However, I know how to comb forums, gather info, turn some wrenches and am quite mechanically inclined.
I'm quite pissed about the fact that reading over the G.E.P. site that they make no mention of having N/A specific and Turbo specific engines, rather then give N/A and Turbo power numbers... I took it as being a universal long block. Dumb me I guess.

I just recently realized through this forum that these Optimizers came with "square" stamped pre cups, blocked oil squirters, and standard volume oil pumps, designating them to N/A applications. Well... now that my engine was damn near ready to go in.. I'm gonna tear the bitch apart and correct it for a Turbo app. just more damn down time...

Just ranting a bit,
Mike
 
I have my Ted engine installed and gonna run it, as I need to have it out of nagging GF driveway before snow flies. The only backstep is removal of SS marine injectors and get my old ones remanned and tested. I am pissed to find out they are crap and won't risk it and hate when things are not what they seem to be, lesson learned. Glad I found this forum before I ran them. RobZ do you have a pic of the pmd mount behind the bumper?
 
I would consider just running it, but I had Barry set my injectors up to work well with my marine pump and am planning on running 20 - 25 psi... I think it might be a bad idear to run all that with small economizer N/A pre cups and without piston pissers to cool them as well. Of course requiring the high volume / pressure oil pump too.
 
You might change your mind about changing the pre-cups when you see the price of new ones. Most if not all used ones have cracks and will crack further when removed.
All the main bearings are select fit. A standard size set won't give accurate clearances on all journals. Penninsular Diesel in Michigan sells the individual size bearings.Member Bobbiemartin went into a lot of detail on this in his optimiser build for his suburban a year or more ago.
 
If you changed the main bearings, the oil squirters will work. The NA main bearings are not drilled for the squirters. The turbo bearings are. I've always wondered about this sort of "savings", not just on 6.5's but all cars. Having to manufacture and stock two sets bearings and oil pumps, how much would it really cost to make them all the same? Seems like with only one set of parts to make and stock, it would be cheaper to have oil squirters on all the engines.
 
Pre cups will make a difference in available power and smoke output of the engine. NA cups on a turbo do smoke more under max power and fuel. How hard are you going to run the engine? I ran the older 6.2 and 6.5 as hard as possible without oil squirts. The cooling system makes more of a difference for engine life than the squirts do. So yes change the precups, but, I would not bother with oil squirts unless you are loading it to the extreme or using it in a Hummer and maybe not even then. Run synthetic oil if you have any doubts.
 
I did call Peninsular today, supposedly the pre cups are damn near unobtainable... I figure on just buying a new set of heads from them at this point. I don't remember exactly what my heads have, I thought they had the bigger mouths to the pre cups but didn't take any pics to look back on.

I was also informed that I could just drill out my bearings where the holes need to be to correspond with the squirters, I plan on installing a HV / HP oil pump now anyways. So this damn thing is gonna go back on the stand and get dismantled.. Waste of damn money this thing is.....

I'm gonna pull the heads to find out for sure what cups are in there and if they are the squares, the heads will get replaced.

Seeing that Peninsular is only an 1 1/2 - 2 hrs from me, I'll just run down there and pick them up. While I'm down that way, I'll take my IP down to Diesel Injection Service and have them check it out, add the 3/8 inlet, maybe see if they can adjust it to 325 hp.

Oh and I plan to occasionally run the livin piss out of it... So, I think going ahead and making these few changes are in order.
 
Like I said I'm gonna run it as is and I guess we can see how long these things last. I figure that the electronic IP is limited to what fuel it will output anyway and I have the #9 resistor in it. When and if Ted is selling side turbo blocks again I will consider getting another one as a spare and setting it up right. I rarely tow anymore as I am boatless and camperless, but do deliver pallets of brick and stone which is why I got the truck. I'm interested to see how this plays out in the future. The main thing with me is to get the truck running and the money to stop bleeding. I had a high volume pump and installed it. I should get back on my truck project in a couple of weeks and will post the pics so far and take more.
 
I had the diamond aftermarket pre-cups installed on my GEP heads at Diesel Depot/Avant Salvage in GA[sorry no link].[they were being shipped from down that way anyhow] There is some slight machining needed to make them fit. They do sell just the aftermarket pre-cup if you want to save the crazy shipping costs and have a local machine shop do the work. Shipping would be around $300.New heads were around $900 or more[plus shipping]. I think the aftermarket pre-cups were around $200.
 
I'll say this much; I respect your desire to do it right the first time.

An admirable quality that seems to be lacking these days.

Make sure you pass that ethos on to your "helpers".

;)
 
One more thing to mention is that the Bellhousing, Motor Mount, and Flexplate Flywheel bolts are Metric not SAE, The Oil pump stud is different too but dont know if its similar to squirt block vintage motors as this is the first one that I have tore into. Dont know what year model you have but the changeover was made in a I believe 98 or 99. I found this out the hard way. My SAE motor mount bolts sure did snug down tight until i tried to torque them to spec and pulled the threads out of the block. Had to tap them for a larger size. The machine shop also lost one of the outer main bolts. I told them no big deal Ill run down to the dealership and grab one. Took forever to get one in. Asked about the Oil Pump stud and my parts guy couldnt locate it, and ended up having to order one off of an internet site that sells alot of milsurp 6.5 parts.
 
Thanks for the words of encouragement GW, I greatly appreciate it. I think I'm gonna try to get a hold of Diesel Depot again tomorrow and see about getting some diamond pre cups from them .... That's IF the dinks answer the damn phone....

If not I will probably have to run down to Peninsular to pick up a set of heads @ $560.00 ea. I did get a hold of "Diesel Injection Service" today, they are out of Grand Rapids as well... I had a chat with them about my DB4 pump, as that's where it came from, but they are gonna set me up with the necessary components to convert it to 3/8" inlet.

I am well aware of the metric bolts in the late model GM and the Optimizer blocks, but thanks for the input anyways Fallout.
 
Just thought I would chime in. I did not know about the pre-cups or N/A designation of motor before the install. Guess I should have done my research. But I am not unhappy with it. It swapped right in and so far has had no problem handing 15psi and EGT's are less than my old motor had under equal fueling. I can't complain. It is gonna hit the dyno the 23rd. I am thinking around 160rwhp and 320 ft lbs. We will see.
 
Mike K3500 said:
I think I'm gonna try to get a hold of Diesel Depot again tomorrow and see about getting some diamond pre cups from them .... That's IF the dinks answer the damn phone....
Click to expand...

You might as well walk to Peninsular for the time it will take you to get a phone call answered, email answered, phone call returned from that company. Long story....
 
Yeah... I'm realizing that, I called today and the voice mail box had been cleared since yesterday, I left a message but don't expect to hear back.
Bastards anyways !

What to do... What to do ???

I'm frustrated as hell, need this damn thing done before winter, not this BS re-work !!

Mike
 
pm sent, I have someone that will fix you right up with any type of standard or custom pre cup you want, all cnc cut.
 
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