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New here +motor build up ?'s

C

crash2win64

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BuFu, MN
Hey I'm new here, been reading for a little while and just decided to sign up today. I just bought a 98' CCLB 4x4 3500 SRW truck last week. Got it for $2200 with broken crank in motor and pulled the motor last weekend. Block is cracked around #2 main web and into the cylinder bores and crank seperated itself from the front two cylinders from the back six. I've never seen that one before.....

So yea basically just getting into this whole 6.5 business lol. I'll have a block ordered tomorrow and start from there when I get it. So I have a few questions pertaining to build up of these motors and any help/suggestions would be appreciated. I do have a little experience with gassers and build up of them so I have basic concepts down.
Anyone use block filler on these? I plan on doing about the bottom inch or so of the water jacket to help with strength.
What cranks are you guys using? I planned on using a Scat
I planned on using stock pistons and rods from the junk motor as those are fine because basically crank just let loose from itself and motor didn't run after. If that makes sense I dunno lol but parts are still good at any rate.
So I'll also be doing head studs, main studs, balance rotating assembly, port and polish the heads, and pretty sure about a gear drive.

And the other thing I'm wondering is if the groundworks laid right with these engines how much boost can practically be thrown at them?

I've been reading about this but kinda lost on some things...maybe a lot of things. I just read the 5 page thread about the ds4 and flow and am totally lost there....

Thanks,
Joe
 
crash2win64 said:
Hey I'm new here, been reading for a little while and just decided to sign up today. I just bought a 98' CCLB 4x4 3500 SRW truck last week. Got it for $2200 with broken crank in motor and pulled the motor last weekend. Block is cracked around #2 main web and into the cylinder bores and crank seperated itself from the front two cylinders from the back six. I've never seen that one before.....

So yea basically just getting into this whole 6.5 business lol. I'll have a block ordered tomorrow and start from there when I get it. So I have a few questions pertaining to build up of these motors and any help/suggestions would be appreciated. I do have a little experience with gassers and build up of them so I have basic concepts down.
Anyone use block filler on these? I plan on doing about the bottom inch or so of the water jacket to help with strength.
What cranks are you guys using? I planned on using a Scat
I planned on using stock pistons and rods from the junk motor as those are fine because basically crank just let loose from itself and motor didn't run after. If that makes sense I dunno lol but parts are still good at any rate.
So I'll also be doing head studs, main studs, balance rotating assembly, port and polish the heads, and pretty sure about a gear drive.

And the other thing I'm wondering is if the groundworks laid right with these engines how much boost can practically be thrown at them?

I've been reading about this but kinda lost on some things...maybe a lot of things. I just read the 5 page thread about the ds4 and flow and am totally lost there....

Thanks,
Joe
Click to expand...

What block ar you going to use?

Scat makes pretty much bomb proof cranks. No problem there.

Block filler has been used more and more frequently on this forum and there have been a few members post of threads over it lately. Check the tahoe motor thread for example. Sounds like some good insurance for cracks but I'm not convinced that cooling ability will be retained just yet.

Keep us up to date on your progress. BTW Pics are the way to all us members hearts! SO SHOW US SOME DANG PICS!
 
I think the guy said it was from a 1999. I have no idea about blocks from that time. Was there a bunch of different castings at that time then? I would think cooling wouldn't be too much of an issue as not filling the block all the way up lol. I just read that thread where 6.2 turbo filled his up to the bottom of the water pump holes. I don't know if I'll do that much but it's a possibility.

As far as pics go i'll try to get some up but kind of limited at the moment. Pretty much just working from the iPhone right now but I'll see what I can do lol
 
I just filled mine to 1-3/4 from the top ,don't know yet how it will work for me. I believe the brand new blocks are fine the way they are.
 
crash2win64 said:
I think the guy said it was from a 1999. I have no idea about blocks from that time. lol
Click to expand...

"DANGER WILL ROBINSON !!"

That would be a 506 block with squirters and smaller outer main bolts.

I just left one at the machine shop for them to add to their scrap pile. Cracked through one of the squirt bores and up into the main web. Crank is damaged enough from the flexing in that main saddle to be useless as well.

DON"T start a build with an early 506 block. Please.
 
Okay well I thought the blocks 97+ were better with the squirters? I'm kinda confused now because what I've been reading some of the 96 and earlier blocks were shitty castings weren't they? And I also assumed cracking issues were due to the balancer and crank? If I filled the block wouldn't that correct some issues because it's stronger that and the use of main stud girdles?

Thanks
 
If you have a PRE 2002 506 Squirt block that has 100-200K miles on it and NO CRACKS AT ALL then I would venture to say the worst is behind you. With cement then you should have MOST of the strength you need.

If you are still worried about mains cracking you could install a girdle, try lock&stitch, or go for splayed mains. IMO Splayed Mains are the best prevention but I'm not sure if they are the most cost effective.

Squirt blocks help with piston cooling thats the only advantage. The squirt hole just makes another place to crack.
 
Well I just talked to the guy I'm buying the block from and he said that all of the ones he has are from that vintage like 99-2000 area but none of them have the oil squirters. So would that be a good block then? What's the strongest blocks casting number then? Or should I go with something earlier than 97 if I'm looking for strength?
 
crash2win64 said:
Well I just talked to the guy I'm buying the block from and he said that all of the ones he has are from that vintage like 99-2000 area but none of them have the oil squirters. So would that be a good block then? What's the strongest blocks casting number then? Or should I go with something earlier than 97 if I'm looking for strength?
Click to expand...

If it is from 99-2000 and the engine is origional then it will have oil squirter in the pistons. This guy may not know what he is talking about, you have to tear the engine down to see them.

599 castings that were common in 92-94 are good blocks but are old enough that most have been rebuilt, bored out, decked and are just running out of metal! That doesn't mean they aren't out there.
After 2002 most GM Goodwrench replacements were cast by navistar (same people that cast ford 7.3 L) there may have been some lag time getting rid of old blocks. They are also a 506 casting with oil squirters but the metal composition was changed and some redesigning was done. ALL older blocks are cast by Detroit.

Another option would be to use a 6.2L block from like 89-92 that is EXACTLY the same as a 599 with a smaller bore. It may even be stamped with 599 too.
 
Most would say that 599 is the best, it is normally the cheapest, they can just be hard to find.

Finding a good deal on newer 506 blocks that are cast by navistar are like hitting the jackpot. Some people don't know the treasure that they have.

If you can get whatever block you find a good deal on checked for cracks at a machine shop and it passes then use it.

If a block is going to crack it is going to show the signs early in its life in most cases. So if it has 100,000 miles or more on it without a crack then I would almost bet that with a decent rebuilt and proper maintence it should last quite a long time.
 
What is the intent of the build up and what is the use of the truck? Towing heavy or normal use < 8000 lbs. That will dictate how involved you want to get. The main thing is keep it cool < 210F coolant temp at all times. How you build and with what turbo will determine max boost. If you can keep ECT below 210F 10-12 psi boost is considered good. <11 psi sustained with stock program. Add ons of water mist or intercooler can up to 14-15. Then after that its a longer story.

There are many theories on why the blocks crack and the metallurgy is definately a problem in late 90's til Navistar took over casting. But seems the most common issue to cracked blocks is being ran really warm 210-220F or more for appreciable time and/or having a bad running IP. Both screw with timing/harmonics and can cause fatigue issues with the block.

Most of the Vendors on here know the 6.5 pretty good. Be leary of any glory stories of 6.5 power or general promises of its a good take out block from vendors that don't really specialize or understand this motor. And understand there are some interactions of build up strategies that are not best compatible practices so try and get the full story on why a particular add on is useful.

Search the forum for supplier names if you get suspicious and you might find a tale or two of bad business practices or poor service.

Don't sweat the IP thread most never take them apart or work on them no need or gain to be had until you start pushing the envelope. Do read the ATT and replacement turbo stories though, exhaust, cooling / radiator tips, basics of guages etc. etc.
 
crash2win64 said:
What about a 929 block? I've got a local guy here with one of those. Other than that don't know much about it
Click to expand...

I think that was offered in either 95 or 96 not 100% sure. It should be fine, iirc they are basically a 599 with smaller main bolts.

They are all good blocks if they aren't cracked.

The only block I haven't heard of cracking YET is a new Navistar block. Someone will find its limit.
 
The 929 is a good block from 95, but it also still has the 12mm main bolts. I dont really know that there is any difference from the 599, other than maybe amount of metal in a place you cant see, or the metal content. 599 and 929 are amongst the best if they arent cracked.
 
5akman said:
Where on the block itself do we find the numbers stamped?
Click to expand...

Also on back of the block on top by where the tranny bolts up. Should be an 8-9 digit number and the last three of those denote what we've been talking about here.

And thanks guys for the help. I've got a 599 on order here so hopefully I'll see it next week
 
I honestly would have faith in ANY block that is uncracked. I put over 50,000 miles on my 97 Squirter...

I also would have alot of doubts buying a new 6.5, of ANY block... You just dont' know how hot the PO's have driven em...
 
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