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Long, slow build of my truck

JayTheCPA said:
I have input as this was my desired option due to the gear splits. I put a *lot* of research time into it.

If the NV5600 is out, then the only remote possibility for a 6 speed is the G56. ZF6 is a No-Go. Not workable even by getting creative in using the Ford rear half with the GM front half / integral bellhousing. Limiting factor is availability of the input shaft. And, don't wast time looking at listings for the salvage yards as when I tried it this past Spring, I learned that they are mostly advertising rebuilts that *you* have to *find* and ship to them for the rebuild. Gave-up after I got an E-mail from ZF which commented that it was not a good idea due to scarce parts; they even outright stated to consider other options. So, a clear sign to avoid something is when even the manufacturer states to avoid it.

Did not look into a ZF5 as IIRC it was basically a counterpart to the NV4500. Also, am not aware of a GM bellhousing for the ZF5.

Gave up on the G56 as I could not find anybody with a ready-made adapter to mate it to the GM block and did not feel like paying for R&D.



Unless your truck is making over 460 ft/lb, might want to consider a NV4500.

Final solution for the Burb was a NV4500 with cryo treated gears (except for Direct) and a set of fast coolers.

Bonus to going with the NV4500 is that the only part NLA is the brake pedal and assembly; all other parts are available new. For the brake pedal and assembly, I got them from a donor.
Click to expand...

Great info here. NV5600 is out due to integral bell housing and apparent lack of companies making adapter kits. With the ZF6 being BBC bolt pattern, I figured a BBC to SBC adapter would be easy enough to find. What to run for a clutch was an issue and you raise a good point with the input shaft. As far as a G56 goes, this was not something I looked too much into, perhaps I should.

Are you saying a GM nv4500 is no good past 460ftlbs? I would venture a guess that my truck is right around there, and hopefully will be more than that once the center mount setup is done. I suppose I could bolt a GM bell housing onto a dodge NV and take advantage of the stronger case, bigger input etc.

Also, does anyone know if the input shafts on a Dodge 11.5 are the same as GM 11.5?


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pacificdrumma said:
Great info here. NV5600 is out due to integral bell housing and apparent lack of companies making adapter kits. With the ZF6 being BBC bolt pattern, I figured a BBC to SBC adapter would be easy enough to find. What to run for a clutch was an issue and you raise a good point with the input shaft. As far as a G56 goes, this was not something I looked too much into, perhaps I should.

Are you saying a GM nv4500 is no good past 460ftlbs? I would venture a guess that my truck is right around there, and hopefully will be more than that once the center mount setup is done. I suppose I could bolt a GM bell housing onto a dodge NV and take advantage of the stronger case, bigger input etc.

Also, does anyone know if the input shafts on a Dodge 11.5 are the same as GM 11.5?


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Click to expand...
BBC and SBC are the same bolt pattern.
 
pacificdrumma said:
With the ZF6 being BBC bolt pattern, I figured a BBC to SBC adapter would be easy enough to find.
Click to expand...

As mentioned, no need for an adapter just as long as the ZF6 is the GM variant and not the Ford variant. At the risk of insulting, while the ZF6 has one label, the GM and Ford variants are *completely* different on the inside aside from the different integral bellhousings.


pacificdrumma said:
Are you saying a GM nv4500 is no good past 460ftlbs? I would venture a guess that my truck is right around there, and hopefully will be more than that once the center mount setup is done.
Click to expand...

From what I was able to find, the NV4500's rating is 460 ft/lb. As always, am open to correction by bettter experts as I only know what I read. Toward getting the NV4500 above 460 ft/lb, cryo will help a bit. The Burb is probably around the mid 400's torque at the flywheel which was why Midwest was good with going with the extra effort of cryo.


Just checked my notes on the ZF5. It has 10 ft/lb better rating than the NV4500, but the 0.76 OD ended the research as an option.

Also, looked into Eaton's. Aside from no information on suitable bellhousings, could not find a gear range that I liked.

And, reached out to Tremec ~2 years ago when I first started to plan for the manual swap and got a sand-kicking type of E-mail with lots of color text highlighting their products (for race platforms) and a statement that a new 6 speed product was in the works to compete with the NV4500. That was ~2 years ago and nothing since despite several follow-ups that went unanswered.

So, I took the easy path of a NV4500.


pacificdrumma said:
So now it becomes an issue of making a clutch work I would think?
Click to expand...

Chose carefully as the heavy duty clutches can make the transmission sound like it is in a full-sized semi.

Am using the MPact heavy duty clutch and know one other running it and, Yes, both of our trannies in neutral at idle are louder than the 6.5. When the clutch is disengaged or when under way, the tranny gets quiet and the diesel takes over the role as the noise maker ;)
 
JayTheCPA said:
As mentioned, no need for an adapter just as long as the ZF6 is the GM variant and not the Ford variant. At the risk of insulting, while the ZF6 has one label, the GM and Ford variants are *completely* different on the inside aside from the different integral bellhousings.




From what I was able to find, the NV4500's rating is 460 ft/lb. As always, am open to correction by bettter experts as I only know what I read. Toward getting the NV4500 above 460 ft/lb, cryo will help a bit. The Burb is probably around the mid 400's torque at the flywheel which was why Midwest was good with going with the extra effort of cryo.


Just checked my notes on the ZF5. It has 10 ft/lb better rating than the NV4500, but the 0.76 OD ended the research as an option.

Also, looked into Eaton's. Aside from no information on suitable bellhousings, could not find a gear range that I liked.

And, reached out to Tremec ~2 years ago when I first started to plan for the manual swap and got a sand-kicking type of E-mail with lots of color text highlighting their products (for race platforms) and a statement that a new 6 speed product was in the works to compete with the NV4500. That was ~2 years ago and nothing since despite several follow-ups that went unanswered.

So, I took the easy path of a NV4500.




Chose carefully as the heavy duty clutches can make the transmission sound like it is in a full-sized semi.

Am using the MPact heavy duty clutch and know one other running it and, Yes, both of our trannies in neutral at idle are louder than the 6.5. When the clutch is disengaged or when under way, the tranny gets quiet and the diesel takes over the role as the noise maker ;)
Click to expand...

So in Lahmans terms if I can make a clutch work with a GM zf6 I'm in business?


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pacificdrumma said:
Thanks for that info!
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Click to expand...
When rebuilding the engine and drive train in the 59 dodge W100, I told them that there would be times that I would be slipping the clutch and that I wanted it heavy duty, they put together a clutch all right, that thing is strong enough to install into a semi rig. LOL
Not a chance of ever burning that one up behind the old Poly head 318.
 
Yes it is. Remember, they ran 4L85E's behind them in D-Max equipped vans, also. If a person could get the input shaft issue addressed, there shouldn't really be any major reason why you couldn't run the six speed manual from a D-Max behind a 6.5/6.2.
 
Husker6.5 said:
Yes it is. Remember, they ran 4L85E's behind them in D-Max equipped vans, also. If a person could get the input shaft issue addressed, there shouldn't really be any major reason why you couldn't run the six speed manual from a D-Max behind a 6.5/6.2.
Click to expand...

Pardon my ignorance but what if I used a flywheel for an NV (13"?) and had a custom clutch made up for the setup. What issue does a the input shaft pose?


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Pilot bearing diameters (outer and inner) for the end of the input shaft/crankshaft hub would be the only issue left, since your custom clutch would address the spline count/diameter issue.
 
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