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leaking arp head studs. GM Sealant tabs?

J.Peart

J.Peart

Active Member
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Location
Kelowna, bc, canada
So, i just redid the heads and cam in the truck, as well as a blown head gasket and i've been losing coolant. I found a couple leaks at the heater hose quick disconnect and the t for the rear heat. Fixed those, although i'm not too confident with the fitting. But that's another issue.

I thought that was it, but then i found some lovely 'snotty' looking goo in the CDR tubing:mad2:. I can get pics but when i have seen this before (not in person though) it has been coolant and oil mixing.

There isnt any excess pressure in the coolant system so i dont think the headgasket is gone. I dont see any signs of coolant in the oilpan, but there is only so much the dipstick can show.

Has anyone tied using the sealant tabs i have heard about to seal ARP studs?

This is the second time i have put them in and they leaked both times. this time I was super careful. I cleaned the bolts, chased and dryed the threads and installed as per the instructions and they still leaked. (i used the white permatex thread sealant).

If the coolant tabs aren't the answer i will probably try pulling the studs one at a time and rtv siliconing them in.

Any suggestions?
 
Use blue locktight and tighten the studs into the block before putting the nuts on. I have used both red (Did I mention I might be slightly touched?) and blue locktight to put them in. I then double nutted the studs and tightned them into the block. Then add gaskets and heads. It has worked for me with 60K on the red locktight, heads off 3 times for other reasons and 10K so far on the blue on another engine. I didn't bother to clean the block threads as the turning part is the nut on studs esp tightened studs...

Locktight seals the threads as well as locking them from loosening. The sealing part is the only reason I used it on the block threads only.

You also could have a block crack or a leak around the timing cover or waterpump into the crankcase.
 
i didn't go as far as you but i did tighten mine as well. i used an alan key and tightened them up a bit. I'd rather not pull the heads again so soon after putting the whole thing back together, thats why i was wondering about doing them 1 at a time. i was thinking taking them out 1 at a time and resealing with rtv and retorquing while following the torquing pattern.

i do suppose it could be another leak like you say, and as for a block crack :willynilly: i hope not. dont even say that lol. I doubt that though. i had it checked out by the machine shop when i had it out just in case.

I would expect there to be some noticeable goo on the dipstick if the leak was from the timing cover or the water pump right?

If i have to pull the heads again i guess i will, but first i have to fix the leaky water pump on the 7.3 :rolleyes5:
 
Water on the dipstick is too late as by that time the bearings have been wiped out. Coolant is more effective than clunker bomb at locking up an engine. You are seeing the water that has boiled off in the CDR. Source unknown. All oil is at 220 for normal operating temperature so the water boils out quick when it hits the oil.

IMO it is a high risk to remove 1 bolt at a time as the gasket can fail while you do this. That crazy bolt tightening pattern is there for a reason. You are 75 percent there when you are looking at the bolts anyway. Maybe just one stud if it is a clear leak...
 
WarWagon said:
IMO it is a high risk to remove 1 bolt at a time as the gasket can fail while you do this. That crazy bolt tightening pattern is there for a reason. You are 75 percent there when you are looking at the bolts anyway. Maybe just one stud if it is a clear leak...
Click to expand...

Yeah your right. almost there at that point.

1 stud would be nice.

It doesnt leak that quick and im not seeing an increase in oil level. I'll try throwing some coolant tabs in this weekend watch my coolant level closely. If that doesnt solve the problem I suppose ill be tearing it down one weekend soon. :sigh:
 
pull your valve cover a check for prestone puddling below the studs(it will seep down on top and rest close to the valve cover) the studs leak 96 percent of the time out the top between the washer and nut.... we developed a method of machining the top of the bolt holes to accept rubber o-rings, and have not had a problem since....
 

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turbonator said:
pull your valve cover a check for prestone puddling below the studs(it will seep down on top and rest close to the valve cover) the studs leak 96 percent of the time out the top between the washer and nut.... we developed a method of machining the top of the bolt holes to accept rubber o-rings, and have not had a problem since....
Click to expand...

that is an excellent idea. i wish i had the equipment to do it.

Also i like the color you chose. :thumbsup:

20111227569.jpg20111127511.jpg
 
Mike K3500 said:
I just used ultra black RTV silly cum on the block end of the studs and snugged them in.
Click to expand...
I have had success with using Ultra Black (sounds like a blacksploitation super hero movie :rof: ) on the wet ends, also. You must torque the nuts right away before it sets up (ask me how i know that).

6.5 L ARP head stud torque = 90 lbs-ft
5.7 L Olds ARP head stud torque = 135 lbs-ft :eek:
 
turbonator said:
We use a 12V Makita drill (3/8"), and a step drill..... both bought new for under $150.00....oh ya, O-rings about 20 cents each. Do not need to spend a lot of money to get things done.
Click to expand...

oooh i see. the first time i looked at that pic it looked like you had grooved the inside of the bolt hole. you just put two steps into the top for the o ring, and then i assume you clamp the o ring in place with the washer. I was wondering about doing that with a chamfering bit.

I suppose using the step bit you could even do two o-rings for a bit of a safety factor. assuming one can source o-rings to fit both steps.

and i believe i did my studs to 100 ftlbs, decided to go a bit more than the 90 arp listed.
 
Even though we like redundancy, we did not use two o-rings....LOL. A chamfer bit will work, we were just wanting to have a radius for the o-ring to seat into. Found that a lubricant on o-ring and washer aids in eliminating o-ring distortion and twisting.

Different times we have torqued the studs from 110ft/lbs up to 125 ft/lbs. Use Wurth's thread sealant on the wet end of stud, with stud snugged right down to the block deck.
 
Well the truck is off the road and going up to my dads shop again next weekend. But it's too late for the turbo. bearings are shot. Dont know if the feed line got plugged or if it was coolant in the oil.

Gonna replace the water pump on the ford and the chev will sit for few weeks till i can tear it down and see about the engine. hopefully everything else is ok. The turbo does spin much faster than the motor after all. Have to get a hold of Dennis about a rebuild kit.

If not, well i think its part out time. getting sick of this thing being off the road more than on. too much money into it as well. try to do everything right and i still get bit in the ass. :banghead:
 
100,000 RPM on the turbo... It is only a few zero's faster than the 6.5 can turn. :hihi:
Turbo bearings are the first to go as they are the most fragile and see 100 HP across the small bearings at extreme RPM.

I'd get the oil out of it and the valve covers off ASAP to reduce rust. Then decide if you want to let it sit etc. It will rust quick with the valve covers on and coolant in the oil...
I fought my 1995 for a year till I got it right. Runs better than a 454 now. So the end goal is worth it. Battle to get there sometimes. And stories like these are why I used locktight on mine even the red stuff that was all we had on hand that day. Sure the studs will go to the scrap yard with that block...

Change the oil before you drive it anywhere else if that is the plan. (I wouldn't drive it.)

Hopefully the leaking stud will be plain as day. If that is what it is.
Does this have an in tank radiator oil cooler?
Water pump and timing chain cover are other possible leaks.
Then there are cracks/blown head gasket.
 
I am going to tow it up to my dads this weekend. its an 1-1/2 hour drive and i dont want to cause anymore damage. im not going to drive it this week either. Done it once before too, gotta say im rather impressed with the 7.3 IDI.

chev tow.jpg

This time it will be towed with either my dad's Cherokee 3.0L diesel (I want one, awesome vehicle), or the 95 cummins.

I was planning on draining the oil and the coolant before leaving it at my dad's. so it will sit a week here before i drain it, which i would think shouldn't be too bad. Once its up at my dads and drained it will sit another week or two before i can tear it down. I will try to get the valve covers off next weekend too, but i need to get the water pump on the ford done first so i have something to drive. shouldn't be a problem though.

and no it doesn't have the in tank oil cooler.

its frustrating cause its been longer than a year trying to get this running right, though granted the first time around i made some mistakes. this time i did everything i could, took my time, didn't cut any corners and it still had problems. although at least it was running really nice.

This time i'm using rtv on the threads and i will be o ringing the top of the studs.
 
J.Peart said:
I am going to tow it up to my dads this weekend. its an 1-1/2 hour drive and i dont want to cause anymore damage. im not going to drive it this week either. Done it once before too, gotta say im rather impressed with the 7.3 IDI.

View attachment 31783

This time it will be towed with either my dad's Cherokee 3.0L diesel (I want one, awesome vehicle), or the 95 cummins.

I was planning on draining the oil and the coolant before leaving it at my dad's. so it will sit a week here before i drain it, which i would think shouldn't be too bad. Once its up at my dads and drained it will sit another week or two before i can tear it down. I will try to get the valve covers off next weekend too, but i need to get the water pump on the ford done first so i have something to drive. shouldn't be a problem though.

and no it doesn't have the in tank oil cooler.

its frustrating cause its been longer than a year trying to get this running right, though granted the first time around i made some mistakes. this time i did everything i could, took my time, didn't cut any corners and it still had problems. although at least it was running really nice.

This time i'm using rtv on the threads and i will be o ringing the top of the studs.
Click to expand...

When I did my 98 rebuild i used just old TTY headbolts(most of the new ones felt spongy on torquing).
I cleaned the bolts with a wirewheel and wrapped the treads with the 'greenish'(oil resistant) teflon tape(3 full wraps) and ran a tap trough the deck holes.I have close to 40 thou(km) on it now,never had a single issue.
I used teflon tape on the waterpump bolts as well.

I did the same on my 89 15 yrs ago,Still runs like a top,never been apart again since but an IP and new nozzles.

just saying
 
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