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jump A+B=13 not 12?? + Poppet Valve IP Question

Heres a thought:: F - FSol- drive grnd for FSD - Blk large, also attached to the top of the Inj Pump ONLY - NO MOVE - NO EXTENSION -TOP OF THE INJECTION PUMP, ONLY - PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!! When I installed the heads & put the old pump back on the gnd was off the pump itself & I put it on the PMD Cooler! (its on the new pump as its suppose to be) but moving it prior could I have screwed something up in the CM?
 
The fuel sol has to be closed to get fuel to the injectors.It starts and ends the injection cycle.In open mode all fuel in the rotor get spilled to the return
 
By any chance do you know the model # of injection pump that you had originally and the model of the one you put on? A 94 K3500 may have had a DS4-5068 which the PCM is not compatable with any other DS4 model. Pull the PCM out and check the 4 letter code on the EPROM, which is accessable via a hatch on the back of the PCM. I can look up what kind of IP that is for.

Also, go check to make sure you have two or three ground wires attached to the rear of the passenger head, there was one on the rear coolant blockoff plate and one on the intake manifold stud and there should be one on the rear of the head against the firewall. You might not have hooked one up that goes to the PCM. When you turn the ignition to On, without cranking, do you get the SES light and all the other dash bulb checks, and a Glow plug light?

The PMD sends a 5VDC pulse. The PMD is a transistor that uses battery voltage and a digital fuel inject pulse from the PCM to trigger it. So it uses that energy and that trigger to create the analogue (real voltage value with current, not just a logic high or low) pulsed signal to the IP Fuel Solenoid. That pulsed signal grows in voltage with RPMs. A multimeter can pick that off as VAC, because in that mode it is reading peak to peak voltage, period, it doesnt matter if its -60 to +60 at 60hz or from 0 to 5V at an inconcistent frequency. So it is VDC, just with fast switching.

You cannot hold the metering valve open, because then it would never inject the fuel. The metering valve opens on voltage pulse, then closes to begin injection.

Verify the .58V was AC, and if it was I would suspect the PCM. May not have been anything wrong with your old IP and PMDs.

Before you get a PCM you can verify continuity or short between wires on the wires between PCM and PMD. Pull PCM connectors off and leave PMD unplugged. Test ohms between the wires going to the PMD to see if any are shorted to eachother or to ground. So check A-C, then A-E then A-eng/chassis GND. Then check C-E and C-GND, then E-GND. You should not get any kind of continuity on any of those tests.

Then you can jumper PMD harness pins A-C, go to the PCM harnesses and test for continuity on BC14-PD2 and BD13-PD2. Then jumper C-E and test continuity between PCM harness PC2-PD2. You should have less than 1 ohm on all of these checks.

Its easier to understand if looking at the picture of the PCM to PMD on that PDF file. It also identifies the PA/PB and PC/PD connectors as by color and number of pins.
 
Bigfootedalien said:
Heres a thought:: F - FSol- drive grnd for FSD - Blk large, also attached to the top of the Inj Pump ONLY - NO MOVE - NO EXTENSION -TOP OF THE INJECTION PUMP, ONLY - PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!! When I installed the heads & put the old pump back on the gnd was off the pump itself & I put it on the PMD Cooler! (its on the new pump as its suppose to be) but moving it prior could I have screwed something up in the CM?
Click to expand...
Only place for that ground is on the IP.moving it can result in a no start,but wont screw notting up.
 
Both IP were the same models 5521 : the 2 pmds on it now were tested by badger diesel (1#9 1#5) I just hooked up my maclogic scan (It reads data stream but wont read codes) i didnt know if id work on data eng not running but it does: (must be all new data since the new IP pump installed & cranked to start) :: Eprom = 4805 / TDC offset= -0.7 / inj pulse = 1.95ms / Des Inj 17.6deg / fuel rate 0 / heres the big one ENGINE SHUTOFF ON (with key on) + still ON during crank! ) code 13 on flash codes! I guess we already know thats my problem : getting eng shutoff on during crank/run - will it also be "ON" with key on? The 3 gnd wires(back of pass hd) 1 strap + 1 sm blk + 1 lge blk are all cleaned & freshly installed when I changed the heads - all are as best as they can get to solid gnd!) CM must be getting a good gnd or the prom ID wouldnt show in the data stream right? ill try the OM tests on the harnesses next! thanks Lar
 
Im understanding the injector system more now after all your posts! espec the 2-5v AC on/off cycle through the PMD - does the pmd actual do the cycling or does that come from the CM? Ill try both PMDs crank test again (on the .58)! Woulds U see the pulses on the dig meter : like .58/0/.58etc? Or is the pulse way to fast to see?
 
You cant see the pulses on a regular multimeter, you can on the osciloscope. Thats why you set to VAC, where it looks for a peak to peak (it calculates the potential difference) and it is looking for an alternating current. Like on commecial power 120VAC is 60hz, our frequency is not constant, but it doesnt matter, the meter just checks peak to peak at a high sampling rate.

The PMD does the power cycling, thats how it gets so hot, all that constant switching at high rates. The PMD is the switch, but the PCM is the operator of the switch, the PCM tells the PMD when to be switching (frequency) and for how long (pulse width). The pulse width reading the PCM gives you on scan is how long between the pulse dropped and when the solenoid seated closed. That is normal around 1.6 to 2.0, and if it gets higher there is a lubrication or worn/scarred/sticky valve issue and eventually causes DTC36.

Your scan data does prove PCM is getting good ground and power.

The ESO/FSO solenoid should be the same with IGN on and while cranking or operation. It opens the fuel path with ignition power. Although I dont know if ON means its closed or open. And it is flashing DTC13 still? With the ignition on, make sure there is a 12V drop across the ESO, meaning is the PCM holding it open? If you dont read any voltage across the wires then the PCM is not grounding it out to open it up.

I guess you could then put an ammeter in line on the ESO to see if its actually drawing current with the ignition on. Jumper the power from the engine harness to the ESO, then jumper the ground pins in the harnesses with the ammeter. Maybe the fuse has a bad connection that limits current draw and cant hold it open. But I guess you already pulled it out and verified the plunger moves up when ignition comes on.
 
CM# SVC 162121488 Delphi + lttle box under CM: 16165065 I decided to remove the 3 wires from the back of the pass hd - someone was in there & redid some wiring - there were 2 sm wires (lt brn/blk) stripped on the end & under the stud (not good) so I fixed that + put a large gnd to that stud also from the brty! Then i removed the CM & little box underneath - someone had aslo rewired the lge rd & the lge blk wires in the harness w/blower motor wires (bad job they did & I fixed both) - hopin that was the fix I X scan tool DataStream on the Eng Shutoff (no change key on or crank both = ON) - Then I uplugged everything from the CM & little box underneath - unplugged the PMD & sol harness & tested for OHMS to gnd - I got OHMS to GND off the pink wire (doesnt make any sence - its juice when the key is on & with 12vts + should burn the wire up) - Tested with key off = no juice vts + key on = 12.63 vts! Yet with key off still has ohms to gnd (is that right?)
 
That makes sense, pink is the igntion source, with the ignition off it grounds all the load ends and switches it to power with ignition on. That why I didnt mention pin D.
 
Thats a great question Eng Shutoff ON = is it really shutting fuel ON or OFF? My thinking ON = no fuel (no switch there = fuel) ! Scan tool 1.95 MS Inj Pulse tells us the PCM is doing the switching + @ the right angle right? (1.6-2.0)! I double Xed the ESO Sol & pulled it it works fine & pulls up with key on opening fuel! I also Xed my meter there is a AC push buttion - retested both PMDs on AC Vts both = .878 Vac !
 
.878 off both PMDs from badger diesel - same reading on both & both are suppose to be tested (they gota be good) - Why wouldnt they put out 2-5vts? What feeds that switch in the PMD the 12.63V Btry or the 5.04 vts from Red D/E ? The IP harness came with the new IP & everything on that Xes out ok also! Wheres the fuse in the CM under that silver cover?
 
If you done tested all the wires from the PMD to the PCM, and believe your used but tested PMDs are good, then I would be looking to swap the PCM. Especially if you clear codes and still get DTC13, when you know the ESO is pulling the plunger up with the ignition switch. The Fuel Solenoid isnt going to open enough at less than 1VAC.

If you cant find one locally or cheap I have an extra PCM you can try.

And you see your old IP had a DTC34 associated with it, that is that closure time I was talking about where the valve was closing faster after the pulse ended than it should. Like the computer knows it should take the valve 1.6ms to close when its fully opened. But yours was closing much faster, meaning maybe the Fuel Solenoid was going bad, or maybe the pulses were just too weak, like you have now, your pulse is too weak to start the truck. the valve isnt opening enough at less than 1V.

You need to be seeing like 1.3-1.5VAC while cranking, a little more at idle, and then up to 5V at 3000+ rpm.

You have several ECM fuses, one of them covers the ESO and PMD and one covers the actual PCM.
 
Bigfootedalien said:
Thats a great question Eng Shutoff ON = is it really shutting fuel ON or OFF? My thinking ON = no fuel (no switch there = fuel) ! Scan tool 1.95 MS Inj Pulse tells us the PCM is doing the switching + @ the right angle right? (1.6-2.0)! I double Xed the ESO Sol & pulled it it works fine & pulls up with key on opening fuel! I also Xed my meter there is a AC push buttion - retested both PMDs on AC Vts both = .878 Vac !
Click to expand...

I might think ON = open. ON means power is flowing into the PCM where it grounds the ESO to operate it. Plus I ran a long time with no plunger at all inside the ESO (it easily comes out with a snap ring pliers). that caused a DTC13 but the truck still ran fine. So the DTC13 shouldnt disable anything if the ESO is actually pulling up the plunger.
 
theres no pos way its in the ign switch buddy? I think your right though a PCM - General Question: there was a busted poppet valve in the old IP I sent to badger diesel : is there 8 poppet valves in there (1 for each cyl?) or just 1 poppet valve? How much for the CM if i put it in & it works?
 
Then on the ESO ON= Open : the Scan tool says thats working proper also! Im lost when it comes to the Fuel sol (not the ESO) - & how they work actually work together! But i do understand the Fuel Sol (rear pump - red/blk wires) feeds the IP then the injector lines though 2-5vt pulsed made by the PMD which is fed by the PCM.(pcm tell the pmd how long pulse to open/close) : Is there 1 poppet valve in there or 8 - 1 for each cyl?
 
You can verify that the power to everything is maintained with the ignition switch in the Start/Crank position.

Put your tranny in gear, and turn the ignition to start. Your lift pump should run like that and the ESO needs to be pulling the plunger up. You already saw the PCM was working in crank I suppose. If you dont disable the LP and had the ESO out of the IP it would push fuel out.
 
You would have to ask Bison or others about the poppet valves, not sure what that is referring to. Maybe that is the metering valve that lets the fuel in. Like I was saying you had that DTC34 and they might have incorrectly diagnosed the IP as the problem, saying the valve of the Fuel Solenoid was not opening enough.

If the poppet valve is the fuel metering valve then there is just one.

The ESO just holds open all the time while running. Its a redundant thing, because PCM stops fuel injection by not sending inject signal to the PMD.
 
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