IP parts i.d. and mods

[high toned sob]

Hi guys, i need some info on what these adjustments would do...i have included what i think i know, lol..
Im not sure these pics are going to be in order, so the first questions are looking into the pump.
The second set of questions is about the side of the pump where the idle screw and maybe external high rpm is?
The last set is on the timing advance/retard arm.


1. Yellow screw raises/lowers max rpm limit. What if you grind the nut down or add a .185” small piece of rod at the end to apply more pressure to the spring inside the shaft?
2. Yellow nut i have no idea, max fuel de-rate? What would happen if......?
3. Orange screw is some kind of gov adjustment? What would happen if you mess with it, what does it control?

so i know the orange would control the amount of retard, and thats determind on a stand. The white cam is “when” it starts to come on. Any benifits to playing with these? Could i somehow tune this to have retarded timing at idle to really quiet the engine down, then go back to normal control off-idle? Like “build” a small ramp on the cam in the idle position? Causes/effects?

the combination is:

dual plane 6.2 intake with a custom hat i made
Dodge ram intercooler
18:1 pistons
4911 pump (i drilled and tapped for a 3/8 inlet, have already maxed the leaf, was thinking about just taking it out)
He351 vgt turbo
Arp studs
Full 5 main girdle made from 1/2 plate
New bosch 40 hp nozzles i set at 2400psi
‘99 water pump and dmax fan


this is with a nv3500 in a older square body, 35’s and 4.10’s

mainly a toy/cruiser truck, but would like to be able to tow a car on a trailer if needed
Thanks fellers

 

[Will L.]

Welcome!
I dont play with ip, because i used have a rockstar where I live do mine.
But I like how you think- looking at all options and smart enough to ask.
Stand by, there are guys here that will answer you proper.

I do want to bother you about your girdle you made, if ya have pictures that would be awesome!

Also how are you controlling the vgt?

 

[Rockabillyrat]

Yellow screw/nut is the min max guide stud adjustment. Its used to fine tune the upper part of the governor by adjusting the internal governor spring tension. Running it in farther like that does help with higher RPM fueling. It should be adjusted on a test stand, but you can turn them in an little and not hurt anything.

Red screw is using to adjust the governor linkage assemble. you need a special feeler gauge to adjust it properly. It will determine how far the metering valve opens depending on where you have it set.

Orange screw is for the LLA armature. It will adjust the tension on the advance piston servo spring, thus controlling the retard timing curve. The more tension on the spring the sooner it will retard timing.

Making any adjustments on those would technicality require a recheck of the calibration on a test stand. If your a good mechanic and fully understand what you are adjusting you can tune it on the truck. But I don't recommend anyone doing that unless you fully understand how these pumps work. Other wise you might cause a run away.

 

[high toned sob]

Hi Will, i do have them somewhere i “think”...ill check. The turbo was controlled by a small air cylinder/drive pressure and a spring to pull it back to closed. I want to revamp it with a better style i have in mind, but dont know until i get this one back on the road..

 

[high toned sob]

Yellow screw/nut is the min max guide stud adjustment. Its used to fine tune the upper part of the governor by adjusting the internal governor spring tension. Running it in farther like that does help with higher RPM fueling. It should be adjusted on a test stand, but you can turn them in an little and not hurt anything.

——i had this screw cranked all the way in before, and got more rpm out of it, just wondering how much is too much. I read a while back about a guy that ground the nut down to get even more, but i cant remember “where” i saw that.—-


Red screw is using to adjust the governor linkage assemble. you need a special feeler gauge to adjust it properly. It will determine how far the metering valve opens depending on where you have it set.

——-so you “could” get more fuel with le

Orange screw is for the LLA armature. It will adjust the tension on the advance piston servo spring, thus controlling the retard timing curve. The more tension on the spring the sooner it will retard timing.

———-any benifit to different ramp design or messing with it for higher boost applications? How about building a small ramp in the idle position to quiet it down JUST at idle?——



Making any adjustments on those would technicality require a recheck of the calibration on a test stand. If your a good mechanic and fully understand what you are adjusting you can tune it on the truck. But I don't recommend anyone doing that unless you fully understand how these pumps work. Other wise you might cause a run away.

 

[Will L.]

Well please stick around and show us some goodies you’ve done when ya can.

 

[Rockabillyrat]

1.The guide stud spring has full tension on it at closed throttle then springs out at WOT. So by screwing it in you give it more tension and it holds the metering valve open longer. But since its compressed at closed throttle you don't want to run it so far in that it starts to push the throttle open.

2. Depending on where the governor linkage is set at currently, you could get more fuel by adjusting it if there's room for adjustment..

3. There is a benefit to messing the ramp design. You change the timing curve and control how much timing it pulls back. I know a few guys that have machined them so its doesn't pull as much timing away. You could make your own to retard timing at idle if you really wanted too. But there are better ways to go about that in my opinion.

 

[high toned sob]

Here are a couple current pics of it...new truck. The other truck it was in got a turbo LS, the ol deezel just wasn’t gettin it done at the races..

 

[high toned sob]

What does the bigger white nut on the gov assembly do?
I did have to lower my idle after cranking the screw all the way in...i wonder if there is more available if i cut a .185” piece of rod about .050” long and stuck it in there ahead of the guide pin....

whats the worst that could happen if i moved the screw that attaches from gov assembly to the metering valve? Or is that the delivery valve? Mark it first then move it a fuzz?

i am all ears to quieting it down at idle, if you have some killer ideas ill give it a go
Thanks for all the help so far fellers

 

[Will L.]

Rocker rattle is a part of the noise. Roller rockers help some with that- not a ton.
But they do help with long term reliability and improve power/mpg a tiny bit.

Putting more work and money to fight the noise: add a bigger oil cooler and remove the oil pan and valve covers. Have them heavily coated in lineX. That adds some sound deadening. A couple guys have coated the entire engine.
Line for he firewall all the way down onto floor board, inner fenders, hood with dei or lineX also.
Interior noise padding insulation is huge. Hmmwvs with none require earmuff hearing protection, but civilian H1 has i think 3/4” think high quality material and makes a big difference.

Timing gears over chain helps some because you don’t have the variations in timing each hit and release of the throttle.

To really quiet it down- your gonna loose mpg, power, and long term engine life by drastic swing in timing. The rattle goes away with efficiency. Lower pop injection pressures is slightly quieter, but again ad for everything else.

Beyond that is really tight clearance of piston to wall with minimal ring gap. So buying 20 over pistons but not boring to the normal tolerance. Much of the sound you hear is piston slap on this engine. This helps and won’t hurt anything so long as you keep your temps in check. But it gets too hot, especially to quickly and engine seizes.

There simply isn’t a lot you can do that makes sense and is affordable. I know many people that fell in love with 6.5 Hummers and sold them within a year for $ loss because the noise can not be eliminated. The added power and loss of noise are the top two reasons given when Hummer/hmmwv owners do a dmax swap.


Oh yeah- p400 is quieter than regular 6.5. But current price on the last few brand new ones are around $14,000

 

[MrMarty51]

Welcome to the forum HTS.

 

[WarWagon]

i am all ears to quieting it down at idle, if you have some killer ideas ill give it a go

Turbo LS.

Wrong diesel era for "quiet" anything. The drone on a loud exhaust gets fatiguing say after 550 miles. So I would recommend keeping that on the quiet side. But if it's old school "School Bus" Diesel Clatter bothers you, well, you ain't gonna be happy with this engine. You can tell a lot about how this engine is running by ear... Maybe a 5000W stereo system.

Nice engine you got there: It Would Be a Shame If Something Happened to It.

When you are screwing around with all the adjustments on the injection pump I will suggest you keep the 3600 RPM redline in mind. Some fool tuners think they can take these poorly balanced stock IDI engines to 4000 RPM with OEM weak valve springs and now the springs are "old weakened weak springs". IDI engines have never liked going over redline even when new and like to let you know about it via a pile of hot oily scrap metal that used to be an IDI engine. The safest place to be is behind or in front of a runaway engine. Safe as is not impaled, otherwise severely wounded, burned, scalded, or D E A D.

From time to time I can serve as a warning to others as a bad example. Check out the carnage and talent for Zombie walking dead engines that are blown but still uh... running. Fine line between Zombie and blown up. I watched my engine hit 4200+ RPM during an emissions snap test due to a IP governor failure. (The very thing you are asking about adjusting.) The loss of compression and maybe releasing the throttle, as it was only an initial test, is perhaps why it didn't go "BOOM!" then and there.

Bringing 1993 Patch back from the dead...

As the engine is the problem rather than the Moose Call IP a separate build thread is in order. The discussion circled the drain pretty close for "parting it out" or selling as 'runs and drives' as - is. Only ONE thing saved it : I still own a Cumapart and need to send the turbo out for a...

www.thetruckstop.us

 

[high toned sob]

War wagon, y u no like the turbo LS, lol? All to played out aren’t they? Around here, only a couple people have one, so its not all the rage. People are still revving their 360 dodge magnums and 96 k1500’s with a 350..

i dont mean quiet down the pipe, its got a 3.5 DP and a 4” straight pipe. Literally straight. Until the 45 turnout at the end into a 6” tip. Everytthing i have is either cherry bombed, straight piped, or has a dynomax, lol...
I just meant quiet down the marbles in a can at idle.

all of my older 6.2’s have been ran at 4-4500 pretty much all the time. My older wood hauler was a k20, 6.2, np465/205, and 4.10 diffs, bangin the gov on it with straight pipes was normal. Thats actually this engine, after a complete rebuild, an ‘82 red. I have never had bad luck with one, i love them for what they are. It had a steady diet of 100% wmo for almost 2 yrs, and loved it..these engines are awesome, but i have never been afraid to run them up, i guess just because the way they feel, they dont seem to like lugging..

now im not saying i take them out and purposely run them like a red headed rental, but i guess you could say im not exactly “easy” on them either..

back to the white nut on the gov assembly, whats it do?

thank you all for your reply’s so far!!

 

[Rockabillyrat]

What does the bigger white nut on the gov assembly do?
I did have to lower my idle after cranking the screw all the way in...i wonder if there is more available if i cut a .185” piece of rod about .050” long and stuck it in there ahead of the guide pin....

whats the worst that could happen if i moved the screw that attaches from gov assembly to the metering valve? Or is that the delivery valve? Mark it first then move it a fuzz?

i am all ears to quieting it down at idle, if you have some killer ideas ill give it a go
Thanks for all the help so far fellers

The white nut is the min/max assembly. Its used to control idle fueling at closed throttle. Stanadyne has a minimum throttle spec for the screw on the throttle shaft. Then the idle fuel is adjusted with the min/max on the bench.

I wouldn't max out the guide stud let alone stick a rod in there to push on it more.

It depends on where the govenor linkage is set at now will determine if you will gain anything. The minimum setting will move the metering valve open more.

I wouldn't go crazy adjusting everything on this pump without having it on a test bench. You don't want to risk a run away.

 

[WarWagon]

all of my older 6.2’s have been ran at 4-4500 pretty much all the time. My older wood hauler was a k20, 6.2, np465/205, and 4.10 diffs, bangin the gov on it with straight pipes was normal.

Was this the factory setting or had you adjusted the governor on the IP?

A turbo LS may hold together longer towing the grades out here. The 6.0 LS2 I owned... GM put the oil pickup in the front of the pan. When you hand someone their ass at the track well all the oil goes to the back of the pan on a hard launch, you loose oil pressure, and sometimes rod bearings.

 

[high toned sob]

War wagon, this was from me crankin on stuff just to do it. Usually the first things i do (after the normal get it running right stuff) is advance the timing, turn the gov screw in, and crank the leaf down (depending on the airflow).

i knew the screw in the back would raise the rpm, i just really didnt know how. And i also get confused betweeen the adjustment on the linkage above the idle screw, because people always say the is the RIGHT way to increase the rpm. Then you have people that say the RIGHT way is to turn the gov screw in. I dont have all the time in the world to spend sifting through tons of posts arguing about it, so i just grab a screwdriver and “see what happens”.

this motor is a little different though since it has a new .031 pump, and i have a decent amount of money in this engine, so i want to CRANK it, but just a little bit more smartly. But still cranked. But smart. Lol.

so now that i know the bigger white nut on the gov assembly is idle fueling, i will probably go out and see what happens if i fool with it. Of course i will count turns so i can put it back, but maybe i’ll get it to lope, maybe i’ll get it to idle smoother, maybe maybe maybe, we’ll have to see! I can now mess with it and know what im actually causing/effecting.

thanks guys, i really do appreciate your advices and knowledge on this

 

[Rockabillyrat]

Stanadyne has a minimum throttle tool that is used to set the external idle screw on the throttle shaft before it goes on the bench. Then the min/max (white nut) is used to adjust idle fuel. That is the RIGHT way to set up a pump. You should NEVER touch the external idle screw on an pump to adjust it.

Good luck with your pump!

 

[high toned sob]

Stanadyne has a minimum throttle tool that is used to set the external idle screw on the throttle shaft before it goes on the bench. Then the min/max (white nut) is used to adjust idle fuel. That is the RIGHT way to set up a pump. You should NEVER touch the external idle screw on an pump to adjust it.

Good luck with your pump!

well luckliy for me thats the only one I haven’t farted around with yet, so i will take your word and not touch it..
Im about to get it back on and fire it up today hopefully, ill see if i can make a video or somethin for ya’s!!!