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I'm surprised I'm still alive

I like how he say this first vehicle to get stuck are rear wheel drive. That's not true. Its going to be the vehicle with the person that doesn't know how to handle their vehicle. All wheel/ 4 wheel aren't going to stop quicker if you don't know how to correct the slide/skid. Plus most people with all wheel drive think they can drive how ever they want. And people rely way to much on their electronic controls. There's no real driving skills any more. Just my $.02
 
As it has been said the best 4X4 or All Wheel drive vehicle is useless unless the operator knows how to use it and what to do in certain situations. One of the biggest problems I see is, these people (Soccer Moms) go out and buy these all wheel drive SUV's and vehicles and get this mentality that hey I have an all wheel drive I can still drive 70 MPH on the interstate when there is snow and ice.....WRONG. That is some of the ones that you see in the some of the most severe crashes. Its all about the right speed and using good common sense. I have taken front wheel drive cars a lot of places in the snow and passed up all kinds of 4 wheel drives that were stuck beside of the road. Its all about speed and throttle control most of the time. Also luck places a part, if you run up on one of those that has the road blocked on a hill, then your momentum is gone and starting from a dead stop is going to be tough. I don't claim to be an expert on it, but yea I have had some skid pad training and have a real good idea on what to do when the back end starts coming around on one.

I also tend to agree that sometimes anti lock braking can be of a hindrance.
 
Biggest problem I see here is conditions get bad and so the put it in 4x4 but then they speed back up. City driving with lots of starts and stops I can see using 4x4 but once out on the open road I want rear wheel drive so I have the predictability and ease of correcting that rear wheel drive offers. For those die hard front wheel drive people my argument/response to them is, if front wheel drive is so great why don't race cars use it. I know there are some classes that do but most people think NASCAR.
 
ak diesel driver said:
Biggest problem I see here is conditions get bad and so the put it in 4x4 but then they speed back up. City driving with lots of starts and stops I can see using 4x4 but once out on the open road I want rear wheel drive so I have the predictability and ease of correcting that rear wheel drive offers. For those die hard front wheel drive people my argument/response to them is, if front wheel drive is so great why don't race cars use it. I know there are some classes that do but most people think NASCAR.
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I am right there with you on that. Generally with my truck or any 4X4 that I can take in and out of 4 wheel drive, I run 2 wheel drive as long as I can, due to the fact that I can control it better if it looses control. Once I am stopped and think that I need traction taking off I put it in 4 wheel drive till I get going. My wife's vehicle is automatic all wheel drive, but I have not driven it enough in the snow to have a clue as how it performs. Supposedly it feeds 100 percent of the power to the front wheels at all times, but if there is slippage it puts power to the rear wheels at that point to gain traction.
 
For this post, I need to change my name. Jack Squat, as in, I don't know Jack Squat about snow itself, so the novice point of view.

It is SO much the driver. Here in the desert offroading I have litteraly went and pulled out a blazer and a bronco that both had front and rear lockers, rest of rig well equipped, with a Honda crx. The tiny hatchback thing from the 90's- yeah. Because I know how to drive in the soft desert sand. I've unstuck tons more, but that was a funny one - one was trying to rescue the other. Too bad no video for youtube
I can put my wife in the Hummer and she can do amazing things in it and has no knowledge of what or how to do it. But if she thought anything is possible of coarse it ends in a twisted pile of metal.

Snow is just like that. I almost killed my son, wife and self around 14-15 years ago in the snow in the Seirra Nevada mountains in my 99 c2500 srw longbed. No joke we got out of a teetering truck on cliff edge. To this day I am not the only one that believes God alone is responsible for us still being here from a suspension of the laws of physics. So while AK says that thread title in jest, I have to say it for real.

If I had been in my hummer, no way I would have lost traction. The experienced off road/ snow driver (friends dad) leading us said if I had 4wd alone with same tires it would have made it. This was offroad, but it was enough for me to not like driving on snow in a 2wd ever again.

That honda crx of my wife's when we got married- our honeymoon was at a snow/ski lodge and we took the crx. (My hotrod 69 camaro would have ran out of fuel on the trip before getting to a station). She wanted to drive up one of the days and she got to a decent size parking lot on a hill that had some ice on it. Front wheel drive alone didnt make it. She drove into it and lost traction. Got it stopped and I took over. I almost got All the way down and slid to a stop again, but when a guy in an AMC Eagle pulled up above me and walked over with a couple snow chains in his hand, I smiled really big. 10 minutes later as I am taking off the chains a k1500 smacks a red Mustang. He drove right over the same spot I just got out of. Then lost it 30 yards farther up. 16 year old kid had all 4 tires smoking- full throttle. Same thing my wife started to do in the Honda when I told her let off the gas and ease into the brakes.

A better equipped rig can definitely improve the capabilities of anyone. But nothing is better than experience. Combine the two and it seems almost unfair what can be done. Wrong driver, wrong vehicle and wrong tires ends up at a crash site every time. So for now I drive my Hummer in the desert knowing unless it has major mechanical failure, I am not walking home. And when I go into the snow again, it is always in a 4wd.
- J. Squat

Thanks again God.
 
no argument in the fact you get better traction in 4x4. Like I said earlier most people speed back up after putting it in 4x4 so there went they're margin of safety. The problem as I see it generally speaking the tires that lose traction first are the one under power (braking is considered power). So if your going around a corner at speed in 4x4 your not going to lose traction to 2 wheels but 4. Much much harder to come out of a slide with all 4 wheels sliding than just 2. If the conditions are bad enough to think about 4x4 then SLOW DOWN
 
classic example of inexperienced drivers was my SIL. driving an old ford pickup rear ended a cop at a stoplight and said her brakes failed because when she stepped on the brakes nothing happened. Clueless
 
Will L. said:
For this post, I need to change my name. Jack Squat, as in, I don't know Jack Squat about snow itself, so the novice point of view.

It is SO much the driver. Here in the desert offroading I have litteraly went and pulled out a blazer and a bronco that both had front and rear lockers, rest of rig well equipped, with a Honda crx. The tiny hatchback thing from the 90's- yeah. Because I know how to drive in the soft desert sand. I've unstuck tons more, but that was a funny one - one was trying to rescue the other. Too bad no video for youtube
I can put my wife in the Hummer and she can do amazing things in it and has no knowledge of what or how to do it. But if she thought anything is possible of coarse it ends in a twisted pile of metal.

Snow is just like that. I almost killed my son, wife and self around 14-15 years ago in the snow in the Seirra Nevada mountains in my 99 c2500 srw longbed. No joke we got out of a teetering truck on cliff edge. To this day I am not the only one that believes God alone is responsible for us still being here from a suspension of the laws of physics. So while AK says that thread title in jest, I have to say it for real.

If I had been in my hummer, no way I would have lost traction. The experienced off road/ snow driver (friends dad) leading us said if I had 4wd alone with same tires it would have made it. This was offroad, but it was enough for me to not like driving on snow in a 2wd ever again.

That honda crx of my wife's when we got married- our honeymoon was at a snow/ski lodge and we took the crx. (My hotrod 69 camaro would have ran out of fuel on the trip before getting to a station). She wanted to drive up one of the days and she got to a decent size parking lot on a hill that had some ice on it. Front wheel drive alone didnt make it. She drove into it and lost traction. Got it stopped and I took over. I almost got All the way down and slid to a stop again, but when a guy in an AMC Eagle pulled up above me and walked over with a couple snow chains in his hand, I smiled really big. 10 minutes later as I am taking off the chains a k1500 smacks a red Mustang. He drove right over the same spot I just got out of. Then lost it 30 yards farther up. 16 year old kid had all 4 tires smoking- full throttle. Same thing my wife started to do in the Honda when I told her let off the gas and ease into the brakes.

A better equipped rig can definitely improve the capabilities of anyone. But nothing is better than experience. Combine the two and it seems almost unfair what can be done. Wrong driver, wrong vehicle and wrong tires ends up at a crash site every time. So for now I drive my Hummer in the desert knowing unless it has major mechanical failure, I am not walking home. And when I go into the snow again, it is always in a 4wd.
- J. Squat

Thanks again God.
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Well Will its good that you and yours are still here for sure.

Lockers tend to pull down towards any slope in the road, that's why air & electric lockers are in such demand.
 
ak diesel driver said:
no argument in the fact you get better traction in 4x4. Like I said earlier most people speed back up after putting it in 4x4 so there went they're margin of safety. The problem as I see it generally speaking the tires that lose traction first are the one under power (braking is considered power). So if your going around a corner at speed in 4x4 your not going to lose traction to 2 wheels but 4. Much much harder to come out of a slide with all 4 wheels sliding than just 2. If the conditions are bad enough to think about 4x4 then SLOW DOWN
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Many years ago we never owned a 4X4 but had 2 wheel drive Chevy trucks. I got to tell you the winters back then were many times worse than they are now. We generally had to run rough tires on the rear and we had two to three huge blocks of wood that we would load into the rear of the bed for traction. As you all know most empty 2 wheel drive trucks are useless in the snow in the mountains. Even on the farm a person had to drive a certain way in order to avoid being stuck. You didn't pull down hill and expect to back up the hill. All and all it took a lot of maneuvering and finesse with the gas pedal.

Along about the late 1980's we finally bought a 1987 S-10, 4 wheel drive and I thought that was the best thing since lite bread. With rough tires in the winter I cannot ever recall being stuck anywhere. That was a going son of a gun in snow and was not bad off road either. I just wished my 2500HD went as good, but these ole big heavy trucks just don't do as well and will sink to the axle off road.
 
Daily driver for 17 years, Camaro. 2000 3.8 auto. Near 50/50 weight distribution. 4 narrow snow treads for winter months. Better road feel, goes 'ok' in the snow/ice. Would rather have better braking/handling/road feel than anything else.

When the snow is wet and above 6" I 'might' get out the 4x4...;)

edit: no substitute for driving skills any way you slice it.
 
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I don't miss the snow and ice krap. We get it up north. AZ closes off the North Rim of the Grand Canyon for a reason. Black ice, yeah the people who still deal with this and have more experience than I still respect the term "Black Ice". While towing under power a Black Ice Patch is an exciting 4 lane recovery when the rear steps out on you. (Up north hit one spot from a snow bank melting. Otherwise it isn't recoverable if the entire road is covered in it.) Even towing in the snow up north we would go by many people in the ditch esp. the ones that passed us. If it snows around here I would find a bunker - sure am not going out in it. My Experience doesn't matter when others are doing ignorant things around you. (Due in part to lack of experience or caring.)

Experience is all we get.

There isn't shit for required driver training or re-training in America. if it's not the snow or rain, someone is: texting, putting on their makeup, drunk, recreational drug high, on heavy controlled substance prescription drugs, too old (like with dementia) to drive safely anymore, an illegal Alien with zero clue of our rules of the road... Combo of any and all and I am sure I missed something. What to know how many times per year the old folks run their car into the drug store out here? Hint: they can't even repair the building damage before another "mixed up the gas and brake pedal" has the the construction repair crew running for their very lives.

Self driving cars are the answer to America's lack of caring about training the apathetic drivers on her roads. (I am NOT talking about commercial drivers who do get some training and are at least held to a standard.) On the other hand the Google self driving car and it's driver both got up close and personal with the origin of the term "Bus Driver" when they both assumed the bus driver was going to let them merge in front... Crunch! Wrong!

So as far as I am concerned we don't cancel enough work due to snow and ice. My favorite example is a major football game that was canceled due to severely bad weather and the uproar that caused. Nevermind the safety of the fans...
 
1st 4 wheel drive I had to drive daily was 2001. Drove 120 miles per day in a 2wd Chevrolet short bed for 15 years before that. 1st a 69 stepside followed by an 83 shortbed. Always had 300 pounds of steel in the bed for winter and mildly aggressive rear tires. Put it in the ditch exactly once. 1/4 mile from home because I didn't want to hit the car sliding towards me in my lane. So yeah, experience has everything to do with it. Like others, I prefer to run 2wd until I feel like I need 4 high.
 
btfarm said:
Plus it's much more fun to play in 2wd. If you ain't sideways you ain't playing hard enough.
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Whether its an empty parking lot or country road a little playing around and getting one sideways helps improve ones skills about correcting one. My wife don't like it when I hit the go pedal and get the truck sideways. She grabs and holds on tight and fusses at me. I have to laugh about it and tell her its going to be ok. I don't play as much in this 2500HD as I did in my ole S-10.
 
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